VFR Charts on-line?

[spitfire]

Does anyone know of a place online where UK VFR charts are available for viewing or download?

[IO540]

Not legally.

The UK CAA has done a commercial deal with an outfit called Memory Map which sells the CAA VFR charts in electronic form, and you can view them using the Memory Map application which runs under Windoze and under Pocket/PC (PDA). This is a GPS moving map program.

Bootleg versions of loads of MM maps are circulating on P2P.

[spitfire]

IO540 - - - many thanks, that's exactly the information I was looking for (and couldn't find a way to tease out of Google).

[microlight AV8R]

Thank goodness ! I'm not a geek (yet). What pray tell, is P2P ??

On a more serious note. I'm looking at getting a GPS equipped PDA and using the digital charts. Would appreciate some indication of what can/can't be done with a PDA & MM Digi-chart combination.

1.Can you do flight planning on them? ie; when touring.
2.Do they give times to next waypoint/destination.
3.Can you type in any GOPS coordinates to use as a waypoint ?

Or, can somebody point me in the direction of a genuine users review?

[IO540]

As far as I am aware, the only PDA GPS moving map application which has adequate (and adequately accurate) UK/European coverage and which supports flight/route planning is PocketFMS.

If you just want a GPS moving map that runs on a PDA, there are several other choices:

Memory Map (UK CAA charts only)

Oziexplorer (no aviation charts; you obtain bootleg ones, or scan in your own ones, works with any map whatsoever)

There are some other products that use dedicated hardware.

Then of course there are the dedicated aviation GPSs, but you asked about PDAs.

I don't like a PDA as the primary GPS. Too unreliable (Pocket/PC is a load of cr*p - imagine Windoze 3.0, 1990 vintage, level of reliability) and mechanically flimsy. It's OK as a casual backup. For one's main GPS, I would get the best dedicated aviation unit I could afford; perhaps a Garmin 296. Now of course 50 people will jump in, each with their own favourite :)

If you are willing to spend some money and move up so a "bigger PDA" then you can run other software on a Tablet PC. Something like a Motion Computing LS800 (do a google) will run a bunch of GPS moving map apps:

Navbox (also does flight planning; simply the best for European VFR)
Memory Map (very pretty display of the real CAA charts)
Jeppesen Flitemap (now discontinued but still "around"; can run the Jepp 1:500k VFR charts as a moving map).

The basic problem with the UK charts is that the CAA has decided to make money, by flogging their map data to Memory Map. The result is a set of very expensive electronic charts. All the while everybody moans about airspace infringements....

P2P (peer to peer) is a generic name for a network for sharing music, software, various other bootleg stuff...

[J.A.F.O.]

Micro

I use Memory Map and like it, it depends what you're after. Drop me a PM and we'll see if we can meet up, then you can have a go. We're not far from each other.

[JeroenC]

IO,

can you explain why you regard NAvbox better than PocketFMS? Besides the fact that PFMS runs on a PDA. It can be ran on a Tablet PC as well.

I like PFMS, and have no experience with Navbox.

Regards,

JC

[Rans Flyer]

Micro,
In the past I’ve had a Garmin 295, 96C, 296, Lowrance 600C, Mio 168 and a A701.

I use a MioA701 Pocket PC (built in GPS and mobile phone) running Memory Map as I find that you can beet looking at the proper CAA charts (unfortunately only the UK charts are available).

http://www.flightforlife.co.uk/images/G-BZNH-DASH.JPG

But when it comes to using ‘go-to’ type of functionality, Runway & Comms information (at a touch of a button), and unit reliability I think a purpose made device is better.

I’d nave no props flying with my 296 (less than £500 off e-bay) as a primary navigation device, though I would never do that….
But I would only use a pocket PC to confirm my position on a paper map (so I’ll be ready when I have to re-set it).

If I had a small budget and wanted the most reliable and informative device I’d go for a Garmin 96C.

Rans.
www.FlightForLife.co.uk

[IO540]

can you explain why you regard NAvbox better than PocketFMS? Besides the fact that PFMS runs on a PDA. It can be ran on a Tablet PC as well

Only because Navbox has a man working there who gets the AIPs each month, or when they come out, and stuffs any changes into the Navbox database.

From what I have seen of PocketFMS (I have not used it) it looks a very nice product, but the update process for it isn't rigorous (AFAIK). It's probably fine in the UK, where there is a lot of GA activity but further out it isn't going to get tested as well. I have a bit of a bee under my bonnet about this subject, having played with several U.S. flight planning products which "supported Europe" and which turned out to be useless over here.

A lot depends on how one is using this stuff though.

Normally, in VFR, you use the printed chart as the primary terrain and CAS reference, and the flight planning program is used as little more than a fancy blog generator, with the option to print off a simple map showing the route. Even so, it is a huge timesaver.

Obviously it helps if the airports, navaids and intersections are in the right place, but they probably will be since everybody making flight planning software simply extracts the lat/long of these from one of the public aviation databases (the recently-closed U.S. DAFIF, Eurocontrol, etc) in as automated a manner as they can.

Similarly, terrain won't change so if you ripped off some contour chart 10 years ago, and did it right, it will still be just as good. Obstacles do change but you are using an up to date printed chart for the MSA, right? :)

The benefit of an accurate and rigorously updated flight planning program is that you can click on an airport, get the phone/fax numbers, avgas availability, PPR requirements, etc. AFAIK every flight planning program, and also books like Pooleys, simply extract this out of the national AIPs. The UK AIP is pretty accurate but elsewhere in Europe this isn't necessarily the case, with duff phone numbers etc being common. This of course somewhat undermines my argument for Navbox, but I still find it accurate for the most part - as far as Greece.

The GPS moving map application is arguably a separate requirement. It would be great if the best flight planning app also did the best GPS moving map, but in practice this is hard to achieve since something compact enough to use in the cockpit is basically cr*p for ground based tasks. The nearest is probably a top-end Tablet PC but you probably want to plug a keyboard and a trackball/mouse into it when doing flight planning.

Personally, I separate the two tasks completely.

On the ground I use a compact but ordinary laptop for flight planning (which also has WIFI+GSM+GPRS so I can get weather on it, fax PPR etc) and it runs Navbox for VFR and Jepp Flitemap for IFR/airways. This is a really slick setup and very easy to do. I even carry a little printer, a Canon IP90 (and there are smaller ones), on long trips away.

In the air I use a panel mounted IFR GPS for primary nav and this can drive the autopilot etc. For UK OCAS messing about I run Memory Map on a 8" tablet PC and this shows all the CAS nicely. Anybody busting CAS with one of these has no excuse at all. I have also run MM on a HP4700 640x480 PDA but I need reading glasses to see it :) On IFR flights I run Flitemap on the tablet as a monitoring device (it also shows the nearest airport, etc) but the hard drive on it fails at FL140...

Sorry for the long answer, which I hope is useful.

[Jodelman]

Before you spend any money on maps for your PDA, take it with on a flight in your usual aircraft and make sure you can see the info on the screen, particularly on a sunny day.

I found that mine was unreadable in the Jodel with its all perspex canopy.

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

can you explain why you regard NAvbox better than PocketFMS?
I use (and love) Navbox for planning, but use PocketFMS on a PDA in the air as well as a dedicated Lowrance panel mounted unit.

I find the pFMS user interface counter-intuitive and sluggish. This is partly due to the PDA form factor and the fact that it has so much functionality crammed in.

I have found a few minor airspace errors in PocketFMS and this may get worse now that they are reliant on volunteers to provide updates following the US stopping distribution of the data. Navbox appears to be rock solid in this respect.

I have also used MemoryMap on the PDA, but found that with the chart zoomed in to the point where text is readable, the area of airspace displayed was too small. What I liked was that with the paper chart on your lap and the very same chart on the screen with a "you are here" in the centre, made it very easy to cross-refer between the two.

In summary, I regard:
Navbox as a flight planner with a bit of added moving map functionality
PocketFMS as a moving map with a bit of flight planning added on
MemoryMap as a map viewer (PC) and moving map (PDA)

I believe that the key to a good flight is good planning, which makes Navbox the most powerful tool for my needs.

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

A couple of things to add to my last post.

I believe that the high cost of MemoryMap digitised charts is due to the licensing of the underlying OS charts rather than the CAA airspace data. Ordnance Survey are VERY protective of their mapping data.

I am monitoring the development of Tablet PCs with interest. They have taken a long time to establish any kind of market share, but the pace of development does now seem to be accelerating. When I can buy a thin tablet with a 10" sunlight readable display and large FLASH drive for < £1000 then I will give it very serious consideration! This would allow selection of the appropriate software based on mission profile, scanned in IAPs, checklists etc and be a useful asset on the ground for email, web and work without the need for a separate laptop.

I think I may have to be patient for a year or two (at least) :\

[IO540]

I have found a few minor airspace errors in PocketFMS and this may get worse now that they are reliant on volunteers to provide updates following the US stopping distribution of the data. Navbox appears to be rock solid in this respect.

I agree with this; updating airspace shapes is a b*gger because it is published in the national AIPs as a list of coordinates, so there is no way one can automate the process. The best one can do is copy/paste the text from the AIP PDF into the flight planning program database, but AFAIK most AIP documents don't show what has changed which makes the updating job much harder. The people in the national CAAs who are responsible for these useless unreadable documents need their head examined. I remember one bit of airspace around Lyon which Jepp got wrong, which IGN got wrong (but differently wrong from Jepp) and only SIA got it right.

Eurocontrol are doing a fun project called Skyview which is a Euro-wide layered database of all aviation objects. One can produce quite pretty charts with it, but there appears to be no way to print them out in a manner useful for VFR - no man-made obstacle data for a start although they appear to have the basic terrain in there somewhere. This may produce something useful one day...

The CAA do indeed claim to pay lots of $$$ to the Ordnance Survey but they don't need to. O/S stuff is a waste of money. The same data could be obtained much cheaper from any number of commercial mapping outfits. In fact I believe the obstacle data comes from the MOD, not from the O/S, so why they use the O/S at all I don't know. They would do GA a real service if they turned out free or cheap downloadable (and bang up to date) VFR charts which can be printed off in sections.

The O/S has crazy policies; for example with Memory Map they insist that if you upgrade the application then all your O/S maps must be rendered useless. Fortunately there is an easy hack...

There is finally one more product which can be used for VFR charts: Jepp Flitestar, with the Raster Charts add-on. £200 for the R/C for Europe and for that you get all their "VFR/GPS" charts which cover most of Europe. They are not as good as the CAA charts though, and do have errors.

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

Skyview does look promising. I registered last year, spent an evening playing with it and decided it had potential to be a great resource but I could not actually see what practical use I could put it to right now. Definitely something to watch develop, as you say.
Fortunately there is an easy hack...
Yep, found that. In fact, if I hadn't been 'driven' to look for it by the stupid policy, I probably never would have discovered that other people were so willing to, how shall I put this, "share their investment" in digital charts in dark corners of the net.

[Basil Smallpiece]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e143/scalesoarer/IMGP2190.jpg

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

The Samsung Q1 (I assume that's a Q1 Basil?) is in my acceptable price range (remarkably good value in fact) but I read the screen is not so good unless in full shade and it is a bit smaller than I want (7 or 8"?).

I envision using a tablet on my lap, replacing a kneeboard and giving me somewhere to scribble. Any thoughts on that or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[Basil Smallpiece]

Yes it is a Q1, you are right if operating on battery only 'power save' mode then the screen is rather dark. On full bright the battery lasts only about 90 mins, so I run it off a 7500mah 19v model aircraft Lipo pack on full bright - good performance even in direct sunlight for about 4 hours. It's small and light enough to stick onto the panel with plastic zip in tape. You might read about hard disk failure above 10,000ft, I've had no problem with Samsung or Sony Vaio computers up to 15'000ft. I can also fully recommend Memory Map.

[rotorcraig]

Cut & paste from another current thread; in the US they have http://skyvector.com/.

I'm sure this has been done before, but why can't we have the same in the UK? :ugh:

RC

[IO540]

why can't we have the same in the UK?

The answer is lack of imagination on the part of the aviation authorities, although it isn't just the UK, it's the same in all of Europe. Nobody in Europe publishes free aviation (or any other) charts. Also much of Europe has negligible GA activity so there isn't a pressing need.

This tight grip on maps has given rise to a huge underground movement, distributing bootleg GPS mapping data. Whole continents have been covered already with "free" contour maps, of all kinds of "interesting" origins (e.g. USSR 1942 maps for Africa) and all georeferenced so it runs as a GPS moving map in say Oziexplorer, but there isn't anything on the aviation front, partly because it is such a narrow field and partly because the stuff changes and out of date charts are as much use as a chocolate teapot.

In the USA, they have an old principle that stuff produced with taxpayer money is public domain. Very logical really. This has placed a huge amount of stuff in the PD which remains tightly copyrighted everywhere else. This is why they have free enroute charts. But that doesn't explain why their approach plates are usable in the cockpit, while the European ones mostly aren't :)

The Q1 tablet is interesting. I don't believe it is sunlight readable though. In 2005 I flew a lot with a bigger tablet (IX104) with a "normal" LCD and it's no good. The LS800 with the optional polarised screen is entirely usable, however, even in direct sunlight.

Tablets are getting there. However, the biggest problem is the lack of digital map data. Memory Map have a UK solution but one isn't going to enter the market with a UK-only product. Anyway, the CAA charts are supplied to MM as a raster, so it isn't a layered database. You will never be able to click on an airport and read off the frequencies, etc. Jepp have the current monopoly on that, but their mapping data is virtually unsuitable for sole use for VFR, largely due to their useless depiction of CAS.

[J.A.F.O.]

Nobody's yet mentioned Skymap - I've only ever had a play with the dedicated installation (which is the dog's wotsits) but there's now a PDA version. Anybody had a go?

[IO540]

Skymap is an old conventional GPS, from Skyforce / bendix-King / Honeywell / whatever they are called today. It runs the standard Jepp data, but slightly better because they have VRPs in there which is really handy.

Current model is just the Skymap 3C, and the KMD150 is a panel mount version of the same thing.

The KMD150 is a very nice "mainly VFR" GPS which I would install without hesitation of equipping a spamcan to a budget. I believe it is unique among panel mount units in accepting a route upload from Navbox via RS232. This feature is disabled on all "IFR" units.

[J.A.F.O.]

Well done, IO, I was waiting for someone to spot that. :O

I did of course mean Flymap as in FLYMAP (http://www.flymap.co.uk/).

[IO540]

You can tell who isn't flying today :)

The Flymap is interesting. They have obviously licensed the CAA charts (like Memory Map) and the Jeppesen Raster Charts (the latter they list at the standard Jepp price of £200 for the lot).

Curiously they show danger areas in green whereas the CAA chart shows them in red... not sure how they did that.

Functionally it appears to be a 6.5" tablet PC. It might be running standard windoze or it could be an oversize PDA running pocket/pc; one can't readily tell.

It looks a nice product. The Pooley bit is clever. What they need to do is support the Jepp Bottlang VFR touring guides (when Jepp get around to bring them out on a CD....).

My reservation is that a PDA is no good for running the CAA charts (I have done it, on a HP4700 in 640x480) because the screen area is too small to show enough of the chart, and is even less good for the Jepp raster charts (which I have also run on a PDA, via a rather more complicated procedure involving scanning and then Oziexplorer) because they are substantially less clear than the CAA ones. But that's not the fault of the product, and the full size version should be fine.

How much is it? They don't list prices except for the software-only pocket/pc version. That's the crux; this doesn't really do more than a tablet PC running all the appropriate software plus user interface integration. A tablet PC (say ls800) solution for Europe is about £2500+VAT.

[dublinpilot]

Second hand info, but I believe that the Flymap product suffers from clarity problems, in that the charts are only clear at one zoom level.

If you zoom out, they start to blur.

As I say, that's second hand info....I've never seen it in action myself.

dp

[IO540]

the charts are only clear at one zoom level

Yes, the Jepp VFR/GPS charts, as supplied in their Raster Charts product, have poor legibility except at specific zoom factors. I can show you this anytime, by loading them in Flitestar or Flitemap and doing a screenshot.

The printed charts are crystal clear so I suspect that Jepp deliberately crippled the [jpeg compression] quality on them, to prevent the data being ripped off by various vendors of very low cost flight planning software capable of running various types of chart (not mentioning any names ;) )

The end result is that when running these charts as a GPS moving map (which apart from Flymap is possible only with the now-defunct Jepp Flitedeck) you can't see the text labels unless you zoom in quite a lot, by which time you have lost most of the situational/airspace awareness :ugh: And that was on a 10" screen; the 6.5" Flymap will be worse.

When I was flying with Flitedeck, I rarely displayed the raster charts, preferring the basic Jepp GPS data. It's bare but it's readable.

[SkyHawk-N]

Current model is just the Skymap 3C, and the KMD150 is a panel mount version of the same thing.

Just to clarify something, the KMD150 is not a Skymap, it is a multi-functional display/GPS. The panel mounted version of the Skymap 3C is a Skymap 3C with a panel mount.

[IO540]

OK, Skyforce in Chichester told me the KMD150 is a Skymap 3C in a different box. I wasn't aware it has extra inputs. But then I haven't looked at it in detail (no need to yet).

[microlight AV8R]

This has certainly been informative reading although the further you look into this, the more questions arise! I'm now debating between CAA/MM charts & PocketFMS to run on a PDA as a back-up whilst poodling along in the Shadow microlight I'm planning to purchase. As I'm very much at the slower (speed) end of all this flying shenannigans I think that a limited area displayed on a PDA screen ought not to be a problem ? ideally I want to have CAA 1/4mil chart on the PDA for direct comparison with the actual chart in my hand.... Logical? Any PMs about economic ways of achieving all of this will be most welcome.

[IO540]

The main problem with the CAA charts on a PDA is that one sees only a small section of the chart, and can easily miss the label on a piece of airspace which one has already flown into - because that label has not yet appeared on the screen (or in many cases will never appear because it is too far away).

But if you also have the printed chart on your knee as well, and have good near eyesight, then a 640x480 PDA running MM should be OK with the CAA charts.

With a normal 320x240 PDA, forget it. You may as well be looking at a chart through a pair of binoculars.

The thing is .... if you are willing to constantly cross-refer between the GPS and the printed chart, then (arguably) you may be better off with a dedicated aviation moving-map GPS like a Garmin 296. The Jepp data on these is of poor clarity but you can do handy things like work out your route in Navbox and then program the route into the GPS - you can't do this with MM which is just a passive position-monitoring application.

I can now see that you are after this as your primary GPS, and that changes things because the way to use a GPS is to load the route into it and follow it.

I would absolutely not use anything running MM as the primary GPS, because of the lack of support for routes, waypoints, ETAs etc... all the nice things which an aviation GPS gives you. Knocking up a route in Navbox and loading it into a GPS eliminates most of the major c0ckups that are responsible for people ending up not where they want to be.

[microlight AV8R]

Thanks IO, you've pretty much helped narrow down the choice for me.
I've already contributed to PocketFMS and I think I will get a suitable PDA and play with that system initially.
I wonder if anyone on here has experience of using that application with the CAA 1/4mil charts?

[J.A.F.O.]

I refer the honourable gentleman to my earlier answer.

[microlight AV8R]

I refer the honourable gentleman to my earlier answer.
Further to the answer given by the Hon gentleman some moments earlier, check your incoming ;)

[Keef]

What worries me with these diddy screens plus a chart is that it results in the pilot spending too much time looking inside the aircraft, with hazardous results.

Several times in the past couple of years I've avoided aircraft that have passed close to me without any indication of having seen me. I see a pilot with his head firmly down, no doubt following carefully the line on his GPS.

I think a properly folded chart (paper) - easy to read, and you'll have studied it beforehand and marked your route on it - is essential. Add a GPS with a clear screen that will confirm where you are on that chart, and all is well.

I played (briefly) with PocketFMS. It's still loaded on my iPaq, but I've never used it in the air and I doubt I ever will. The underlying maps are of variable and doubtful parentage - certainly, I can't see the CAA approving them. It's a pity for the folks who've spent a lot of effort coding in the information, but it doesn't meet the standards required for aviation (or not in my book, anyway).

NavBox ProPlan is an outstanding tool for planning routes. I use it all the time. If I could upload its output to the GNS430, that would be excellent - but that's not allowed by those in authority, so I type it all in at the beginning of the trip.

[shortstripper]

I'm fairly new to GPS but started using a PDA with MM last year as the open cockpit of the T31 isn't the easiest place for reading the chart. Of course I'm on the slower end of the cruise speed scale :) but I found it very useful. I like the track line that gives you instant drift lay off, and although the screen size is small, because it uses the same chart as the one tucked under yer bum ... quick referance is easy. It supports both 1/4 and 1/2mil, but I tend to use 1/2 mil as I'm used using that scale. I'm not a "GPS line follower" so I've found that using the GPS results in less head down time than when I was chart only. I'm not confident enough with GPS to use it as primary nav, but as a position guide it's brilliant. At my 55-60 knot speed I can happily fly along with the occasional cross check, but I think at higher speeds all the problems IO540 mentions would come into play.

SS

[IO540]

I find that flying with a decent GPS dramatically reduces the cockpit workload and one has more time to look out of the window.

Flying with an autopilot (which I do most of the time in VMC) reduces the remaining workload to a trickle and one looks out of the window nearly all the time.

The thing which is risky is flying with equipment which one doesn't fully understand. It doesn't matter whether it is a GPS, a radio, or even the whole plane. Then one can be flying with one's head down. This probably happens a lot because PPL nav training is seriously basic, for all sorts of reasons, including because almost nobody wants to pay an extra penny for flight training. But this is a different subject! One must not throw the baby out with the bathwater, because there really are very good and easy to use nav solutions out there.

That's why I don't like PDAs and tablets as the primary GPS.

PDA touch screens are too easy to touch by accident, as are their little buttons. Pocket/PC can also be pretty unreliable.

A proper Tablet PC will probably not have a touch screen (unless it's one of the uncommon dual-mode models); it has a digitiser screen which works only with the special pen. This is quite nice as one can lay the thing on one's kneeboard and even use it as a writing surface. But using the pen is fiddly...

As I say, these things make a good backup GPS for situational awareness relative to CAS.

[shortstripper]

I don't think a tablet would fit in my cockpit, and I don't like the layout of most small handheld GPS. My PDA is fixed to the instrument panel with a squeeze holder and I've reprogrammed the keys to do the main functions to avoid having to touch the screen ... seems to work for me. Mind you, the chart and eyeball is STILL my primary nav, the GPS/PDA is backup.

SS

[microlight AV8R]

I'm with Shortstripper on this, utilising the PDA/GPS as a back up whilst using the chart and mk1 eyeball. I can understand people having reservations about GPS if used as a primary nav syatem but nobody can deny that, if used properly, it ought to minimise the risk of inadvertantly infringing on somebodies manor.Ideally I'd like to have the same chart on my PDA as "the one tucked under my bum" which is why I became interested in MM although I had also looked at PocketFMS.
I wonder if anyone has managed to get the CAA digital charts working with the PocketFMS application? That would be ideal methinks.

[shortstripper]

Microlight ...

PPRUNE email sent to you with details.

SS

[dublinpilot]

I played (briefly) with PocketFMS. It's still loaded on my iPaq, but I've never used it in the air and I doubt I ever will. The underlying maps are of variable and doubtful parentage - certainly, I can't see the CAA approving them. It's a pity for the folks who've spent a lot of effort coding in the information, but it doesn't meet the standards required for aviation (or not in my book, anyway).


Keef,

That's all very fine if you consider a gps as a replacement for paper charts. I don't think any of the PocketFMS team would suggest anyone use their charts as a replacement for a proper VFR chart. That's not the purpose of the PFMS charts, nor the charts on most gps's. Would you use a Garmin 496 and throw away your paper chart?

The purpose of the charts is to allow you to easily and quickly relate your position as shown on the gps to your paper chart (and to see your position in relation to controlled airspace). It also help enourmously in avoiding putting in duff waypoint when flight planning, as you can quickly spot one in the wrong place.

I'm always amused by the discussions about primary nav......what is primary nav anyway? When I fly, I use my gps, I have a plog, and I've tuned in the appropriate radio nav aids. Which one is primary, which is secondary, and which third is a moot point......I don't think I could honestly say. So long as they all agree, I'm happy. When one starts to disagree, I need to ask questions of myself.

As for 'GPS using pilots' flying heads down following a line....I find following a line reduces my heads down time. The trick is to make sure I've programmed in the line BEFORE take off (not in the air, and have to wonder what airspace it takes me through). I also have the same line drawn on my chart. That way, I know if I follow my line I'm fine. I no longer have to spend much time referencing my position on the gps to my chart. It's a very quick look at the gps to see 'I'm 1/2 mile left of track'.....turn right 5 degrees, kind of thing. It leaves me lots of time to look out the window.

I'm sure if I didn't have a line on both my chart and gps, then I'd spend much longer comparing the gps and the chart.

By the way, when I used to fly with only a chart, I'd spend a LOT longer looking at the chart, double, triple checking my nav, and a lot less time looking out.

dp

[drauk]

Would you use a Garmin 496 and throw away your paper chart?

Not that I am advocating throwing the chart away but what is (usefully) on the paper chart that's not on a Garmin 496?

[IO540]

Probably the vertical extents of airspace are clearer on the printed chart, if not a lot else (in the 496 context; a very good product indeed).

Also does the 496 finally depict Class A UK airways correctly? The Jepp GPS data usually shows them as just thin lines.

I believe that PFMS can run any chart you can provide as a graphic file and georeference it - same as Oziexplorer. If so, then one could run the CAA charts under PFMS. To get them into a common-format graphic file (TIFF etc), you either have to get them scanned (by a bureau with an A0 scanner which doesn't ask too many questions about copyright - this is usually v. expensive) or find a way to print to a graphic file from within Memory Map (which is possible, but I won't describe it in an open forum).

The CAA isn't doing pilots any favours with its policy.

[IO540]

Just seen the latest Flymap ads - is this certified for panel mounting in a CofA plane, as the advert shows?

[ILOC]

I am monitoring the development of Tablet PCs with interest. They have taken a long time to establish any kind of market share, but the pace of development does now seem to be accelerating.I have been looking at various options myself and agree with most opinions that the PDA form factor is just too small (I have an iPaq hx4700). More and more software is being released with Tablet PCs in mind and I am about to start using a Fujitsu ST4121 (10" screen). They seem to be one of the first Tablet PCs used seriously in aviation (try googling aviation and ST4121).

If anyone is interested I have a couple more of these I was going to stick on ebay. Brought out a couple of years ago but with apparently the best sunlight readable screen on the market (same as the current ST5000 series). Google will provide the tech specs.

When I can buy a thin tablet with a 10" sunlight readable display and large FLASH drive for < £1000 then I will give it very serious consideration!
It is possible, there are suitable 2nd hand tablets out there (like these ones!). Hmm, this post has turned into a bit of a plug - wasn't supposed to be. Just excited about my new toy and thought others might want to get a cheap option (PM me if you do).

Anyway I'll post an update once I've had a chance to put it through it's paces.

[ILOC]

Flymap does look very interesting indeed. I have contacted them to see if they have plans to bring out a Windows version to be used on Tablet PCs. I will let you know when/if I hear back.

[IO540]

From what I can see, Flymap runs the CAA charts, or the Jepp raster charts.

You can do that with any tablet PC, running Memory Map (for the CAA charts) or the old Jepp Flitemap (for the raster charts).

I guess Flymap is going to be cheaper of the two, compared with typical tablet PCs fitted with the (usually optional but essential) polarised sunlight-viewable screen, but it is a dedicated product whereas a tablet PC can be used for other stuff.

[Rans Flyer]

I've just picked up a brand new (still sealed in box) Tatum tablet PC (900mhz 20gig) with wireless network and a biometric finger print log in for £160 from ebay.
I can use a compact flash GPS (£20) for a GPS backup, but I usually just use the USB feed from my Garmin 296.
Both work very well with MemoryMap.
I do have difficulty looking at the screen in direct sunlight though, but apart form that It's a nice big moving map display for less than a couple of hundred quid.
And you can play solitaire whilst waiting for the weather to improve.

Rans,
www.FlightForLife.co.uk

[ILOC]

I've heard back from Flymap - apparently they considered bringing out a version for Tablet PCs but decided not to because, among other things, 'apparently' they break as soon as you put them inside a cockpit!

News to me. As long they aren't taken over FL100 in an unpressurised cabin they should be fine. It's a shame Solid State Disk Drives are still so expensive though.

Rans Flyer:
That does seem like a good deal. Although a highly sunlight-readable display does add quite a bit to the cost of these tablets. I've never heard of Tatum but for that price it has got to be worth taking a flyer (no pun intended!).

IO540:
I agree Memory Map gives you the CAA charts, but Flymap superimposes flight plans, provides weather data, closest airfields, i.e. all the usual goodies but using the CAA charts. Would be an ideal option for me. In the meantime I may have a go at converting my CAA charts and use them with PocketFMS on my Tablet...

[IO540]

but Flymap superimposes flight plans, provides weather data, closest airfields, i.e. all the usual goodies but using the CAA charts

Have you actually seen this work?

The problem is that the CAA doesn't appear to let out their database in a "database" form; they let it out only as a raster image. This is what MM gets, which is why they product is just a dumb raster display. MM has no concept of airports, etc. except possibly via the georeferenced airport diagrams which are included with MM.

It's only the Jepp vector database that allows you to "right click" on an airport and see its properties, etc. If Flymap does that too, I'd very much like to know how they did that. The data has to come from somewhere. The UK AIP is not released in a machine readable form and neither is anybody else's (except probably the USA) and this is what keeps Jepp in business.

[Jucky]

I bought a MIO P550 PDA with internal GPS recently. I am having trouble getting the GPS to come on line with MM software. Can anyone who has used a P550 with MM confirm what the GPS settings should be as there is no mention of the GPS in the manual?

Jucky

[IO540]

I don't know this PDA but the way they all work is that the GPS data appears on a serial port of some kind, and you have to config MM to use that port. It's under Menu -> GPS -> Setup.

If you have multiple ports on the PDA (more than likely) you have to try them all in turn. There is no automatic way for software to detect which port happens to have the right data (NMEA) coming up on it.

[J.A.F.O.]

Have you actually seen this work?

Yes, I've seen the Flymap working and it is absolutely fantastic. I've only seen the full version, not the PDA one, but it was incredible.

It was developed by a pilot and a software engineer, I met them both a couple of years ago when Flymap was very new and they showed me how it worked and work it really does.

I have used most types of GPS at one time or another and I don't think Flymap can be beaten - whether it is equalled is a moot point but given the choice I'd take Flymap with me every time.

[Mike Cross]

The problem is that the CAA doesn't appear to let out their database in a "database" form; they let it out only as a raster image.

Not so. The airspace data is in the AIP and publicly available. The base map is copyright Ordnance Survey, and like all mapmakers they guard their copyright. They even include "false" information in maps that would not be shown up by a survey of the ground, enabling them to prove in Court that their work has been stolen.

Centrica, owners of the AA, settled out of court for 20 million pounds when caught nicking data, details here. (http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/media/news/2001/march/centrica.html)

[Flymap]

The problem that we have found with tablet PCs is basically three-fold.

The first is that although hard disks may be designed to operate up to FL100, the vibration in a light fixed wing or heli causes most hard disks to fail in a relatively short period of time. It's a completely different proposal to putting such a machine into an airliner. There are companies in the industry who have invested quite a lot of money in trying to make a system which solves this problem, but none that we are aware of have succeeded. Obviously we have to be sure that the hardware is reliable before we launch it.

The second problem is one of the screens. Sure, there are a few screens out there that will do the job - i.e. show the display clearly in a vibrating cockpit in the sunshine, but most of the touch-screens won't cut it. Because having a touch-screen is very important to our systems and we think makes a big difference to usability in the cockpit, this is a big obstacle.

The third problem is finding a system with the right combination of hardware. It's one thing to find a machine with the right screen or the right storage but finding one which ticks all of the necessary boxes is a totally different idea.

We are looking at tablet PCs and have been for a while. We actually have a version of the software that we can use for testing them, but until we find one that really works, we aren't going to be releasing it.

[IO540]

The airspace data is in the AIP and publicly available

True but isn't machine readable, so the only way to use this data is to have a little man sitting in a room with the AIP and tranferring it manually. The best you can do is a copy/paste from the PDF.

They even include "false" information in maps that would not be shown up by a survey of the ground, enabling them to prove in Court that their work has been stolen.

I don't think they need to; there are so many errors on an O/S chart that they don't need to do this. The shape of almost every clump of trees, or a city, bears only passing resemblance to reality and many are out of date by a decade or two - this is obvious when using a 1:25k for walking outdoors.

The point is that the CAA does not need to use the expensive and tightly controlled O/S data. The vast majority of the stuff on CAA charts is either public domain, or can be obtained elsewhere much more reasonably, or has not changed for millenia (and is public domain).

I can only speculate that the CAA have gone to the O/S so they have a substantial body to fall back on if there was an incident. Even this seems far fetched however, since the charts are VFR and VFR is supposed to be visual, so the scope for litigation following an accident is negligible, IMHO.

This in turn screws pilots who have to make do with a chart anything up to a year old, and not available electronically except from the likes of MM who charge such an exorbitant price that few UK PPLs will pay it.

[Mike Cross]

IO
I suspect that the truth of the matter is that most map-makers licence their data from the OS. The fee for that will be negotiated according to the use. Memory-Map no doubt have have to pay, which accounts for the price.
If you look here (http://www.a-zmaps.co.uk/asp/copyright.asp?)for example you will see that A-Z mapping is based on OS data and subject to their copyright and from the link I posted earlier you will see that AA maps are based on OS data.

Whatever the source on which the map is based, someone will need to be paid for the data, and the likelyhood is that they in turn will have to pay OS.

There's no getting away from the fact that survey and updating of mapping data is a very expensive operation which is why other mapmakers license OS data rather than flying their own satellites and aerial surveys. There's also a big quality issue. You want the new reservoir or road to appear on the new chart and that means basing your map on data that is subject to constant update, not on 5 year old data.
Given the choice of licensing the data direct from the producer or from a third party I suspect the direct route is cheaper.
The aim of my original post was to show that the problem is not with the CAA but with the negotiation of licensing between OS and the prospective producer of digitised aeronautical charts. Chances are that the total market for UK VFR charts is the real limiting factor.

[ILOC]

I'm not sure I really understand Flymap's reticence about releasing for Tablet PC. Surely unless they are selling the hardware it is up to the consumer to ensure they have something satisfactory.

Tablet PCs are used widely in the US. There are a few manufacturers that make very sunlight readable screens and mount their hard-drives with anti-vibration mountings. Plus Solid State Hard Disks are now available (although still expensive).

There are plenty of inadequate PocketPCs out there but they still release Pocket Flymap. Same could be said for GPS hardware. It is up to the consumer to get the right hardware to run their product on - noone is going to blame Flymap if their hard drive fails!

[IO540]

Mike

I suspect that the truth of the matter is that most map-makers licence their data from the OS

I am sure you are right, when it comes to current non-aero data e.g. roads, footpaths, buildings, etc. Compiling that sort of stuff is expensive. Which incidentally is why the likes of TomTom don't use up to date data but use data which is several years old and which comes from non-O/S sources.

But aero data is not such a big deal. For example most of the data needed for VFR can be had from the U.S. ONC charts which are copyright free. If you think how much stuff on a VFR chart is actually important and has changed in the last few years, there isn't much, and none of it (AFAIK) comes from the O/S.

There are lots of little men in Europe (and indeed most other places in the world) who are most unhappy about the Americans mapping out the world, for free, firstly in 2D and more recently with shuttle radar with a horizontal accuracy of 100ft and an an elevation accuracy of 300ft, and making the whole lot available on the internet. But it's here. I've just bought a Garmin 496 handheld which (according to Garmin) uses the SRTM data for its elevation database, to provide uncanningly accurate terrain warnings, comparable to a £13k EGPWS system from Honeywell. Times are changing, and many don't like it.

But we still have good old CAA buying its main data from the O/S, and paying dearly for it. If you upgrade your copy of MM all your old charts stop working, because a stupid O/S licensing requirement says that the software release year must match the O/S chart year (there is a trivial hack for this, fortunately).

I can see why the CAA does it - they don't have a proper charting department; the whole thing is mostly outsourced and the market is too small for them to drastically change everything now. Their printed VFR charts are generally excellent and most UK pilots are far too non-tech to even think about electronic data.

The problem is Euro-wide - everything is copyright, tightly held, and there are powerful commercial interests keeping it that way.

Rant=off :)

ILOC

I would suggest the reason is that all software released for the "PC" will be ripped off all over the place. So they "dongle" their software by selling it only inside a piece of hardware.

This is without doubt another reason why the CAA charts are not available for a paid download as a TIFF or whatever.

[Mike Cross]

I can see why the CAA does it - they don't have a proper charting department; the whole thing is mostly outsourced and the market is too small for them to drastically change everything now. Their printed VFR charts are generally excellent and most UK pilots are far too non-tech to even think about electronic data.

HoHoHo! IO.:D :D :D
I've just had a call from a friend of mine who happens to be the CAA's VFR Chart Editor, a Cartographer by profession and who holds a PPL.
The process works like this:- OS provide the basemap to the CAA's charting department in a digital read-only format that they are unable to manipulate. They then produce the aviation overlay, also in digital format, which is then passed back to OS, who print it. Lead time for printing as around 6 weeks from close-off for changes to publication date.
Memory Map get the complete chart in digital format from OS, complete with the aviation overlay, again in read-only digital format (i.e. they can't manipulate the data). Cost of that is a matter for negotiation between the parties and no doubt others could obtain the data as well if they want to negotiate with OS.
If as you say "the whole thing is mostly outsourced " then the Department is clearly being employed to sit on their backsides with nothing to do all day. I'm sure they'd be delighted to join you at a convenient hostelry, where I suspect it's your round!
http://mrc0001.users.btopenworld.com/webimages/beer1.gif
Mike

[englishal]

What I do with Memory Map to make it a little more useful is to import waypoints for all licenced airfields, navaids and fixes / intersections, which I get electronically for free from the FAA. This gives MM a sort of "Direct to" capability:
http://www.digital-reality.co.uk/UKMM.jpg
(As an example)....

[IO540]

Mike - if the process is as you describe then most of the work is outsourced - to the O/S.

As for the "aviation" overlay, if you look at how much that changes from one year to the next, it's perhaps a fraction of a full-time job, no more than that.

I wasn't aware that the CAA get the whole non-aviation basemap from outside, ready to use. It does explain why nothing is happening on the "electronic VFR charts" front. It would take a massive effort on the part of the CAA to being this task in-house, and compile a basemap from other (preferably mostly public domain) sources.

[dublinpilot]

WHAT????

I'd always assumed Memory Map knew 'electronically' where the airports where, where the VOR's & NDB's where etc.....

.....you mean it knows nothing???? It only shows a picture of the map?

Isn't that useless in aviation terms? Doesn't that defeat the whole point of an aviation gps? Would you be better off getting oxiexplorer and simply scan in your own chart?

I really can't see the point in that at all, especially when there are other products out there that do know where everything is (including the airspace).

dp

[englishal]

The point is that:

a) It shows your actual position on the actual CAA chart
b) you CAN click anywhere on the map and go a "go to", by adding a WP. You just have to add it first. I downloaded the actual "official" FAA ones and it is nice to see they line up with the map ones - I also downloaded fixes (SAM25, SAM36 etc) which are not shown on the VFR charts
c) The charts are only £50 for each CAA 1:500000 but include the 1:250000 and airfield diagrams (saves a shed load of scanning and calibrating) ;)

All in all Memory Map is a good product, but like all things lacks in some areas. Equally there are many good moving map GPS's out there but they lack the "look and feel" of the CAA charts.

For VFR flying I'd like the look and feel of the CAA charts but combined with the features found in many GPS's, for example TAWS, "Direct To", "Nearest" etc....Flymap looks interesting, I wonder what it costs compared to the likes of a 496...?

[IO540]

Indeed, having the CAA chart running on a reasonable-size moving map (say 8" diagonal) makes a really nice device for "casual" flying around the UK, or as a belt-and-braces backup to one's main GPS on a preplanned flight.

The only way to be able to "right-click" on such a device and get say airport properties, would be if there was an underlying map which is in fact a multi-layered database. This is what you get with Navbox, the now-defunct Jepp Flitemap, or Jeppview. But only one of these (Flitemap) is capable of running what most people would call proper VFR charts.

It's possible that Flymap does have an underlying basemap underneath the raster chart.

None of this is rocket science; as I've said before the real trick is to do it nicely but without getting done for a breach of somebody's copyright :) If you wanted to do it yourself, it would be technically a piece of cake.

[Fuji Abound]

What an interesting discussion.

In so far as maps are concerned it seems to me the maps should cover not only the UK but Western Europe. This should ensure commercial viability.

The DAFIF aeronautical database was closed to the public domain last year. That means there is no public domain digital information available. In consequence providers will either use commercial suppliers such as Jep who provide Europe wide coverage, the CAA who provide UK coverage or PocketFMS.

Jep is more costly both initially and on an ongoing basis if the software is kept up to date. In consequence its use is restricted to dedicated aviation products such as those offered by Garmin. Memory map has the limitations already discussed here.

So far as I am aware PocketFMS is the only other European source that has managed to maintain an “independent” supply of Europe wide aviation maps although even they are now about to charge users.

In my opinion PFMS maps are superb. They are now supported by a band a enthusiastic and dedicated users who have a vested interest in their accuracy. Despite some comment on here to the contrary the original DAFIF maps were very accurate and contained only the odd “error”, errors which were well documented on the PFMS forum.

Anyone who wishes to use a non dedicated moving map product would do well to have a look at the PFMS web site.

The issue of suitable hardware has also been discussed.

In an ideal world a moving map GPS should provide the reliability that would leave the user confident to use the system IFR. There are a few panel mounted products that meet that requirement. Garmin’s G1000 system is in my view superb, with excellent redundancy in terms of its dual interchangeable displays, superb view ability and robustness. It comes at a price. Integras system is in my view less good. The user interface is fussy and personally I don’t like the lack of screen redundancy.

Units like the GNS-430 are excellent but are more orientated towards IFR operations and do not provide the same situational detail as the G1000 or Integra displays.

Units such as the G-496, PDAs, and tablets all compete for the same ground in providing portable non certified moving map displays that offer broad situational information and en route navigation. They all have to overcome a few common hurdles - accurate and clear maps which can be regularly updated on a cost effective basis, screens that are sufficiently large and readable in sun light, and a reasonable user interface.

In my opinion most of the dedicated portable offerings do the job. Their greatest drawbacks are that their screens are a little small, their internal power supply is unlikely to be adequate, the units are quite bulky and the initial cost and map updates are higher than PDAs.

The above list of deficiencies are those that the non dedicated products need to overcome for them to be attractive.

With both PDAs and tablets you will not buy an off the shelf solution. For these products to be effective you require an inquisitive mind and a lack of techno phobia.

I have used PDAs a great deal. The best from HP for example offer screens which tolerate sunlight pretty well. If the software is correctly installed and the units treated with care they are surprisingly reliable and a lot can be done to preserve their reliability in flight.. Moreover they “re-boot” readily and quickly. I use a HP4700 with PFMS installed on a SD card and a bluetooth modem. The SD card is taped to stop it “popping” out, the HP has an extended battery fitted and the volatile memory is backed up to the SD card. That way on a full charge the unit will run for at least four hours on battery alone on maximum brightness. I have never had the PDA fail in flight in around 400 hours of use - that seems pretty reliable to me.

Tablets offer larger screens and more functionality. However it is still a huge challenge to find something light enough, with a good enough screen to read in bright conditions and with adequate internal power.

UMPCs - ultra mobile PCs have found favour with manufacturers recently. Asus, Sony and Samsung all have new products with touch screens. In my opinion the screens of the Asus and Sony aren’t quite large enough to offer a significant improvement over PDAs. Screen clarity is improved but still not quite as good as the best PDAs and some way short of a G1000 screen. Battery life is poor with none of these offering more that 2 hours (at very best).

So what is the answer?

Despite the poor press PDAs with PFMS do a pretty good job if you are prepared to chose a good PDA and “work” to overcome the more common shortcomings.

There are a few tablets that also do a pretty good job. I have seen the Motion and the Lifebook P1510 has a very good touch sensitive screen of about the right size and converts readily from a “notebook” to a tablet with up to five hours continuos use on maximum brightness with the extended battery. In fact I like the P1510 very much, the screen is almost the perfect size (perhaps it could do with being just a little smaller in its longest dimension), the screen is almost good enough, the convertible tablet provides a good combination of keyboard to touch screen display and it is light and not to deep (in thickness). With a better daylight screen 15cm square form and 2 cm thickness with PFMS it would be perfect!

[Basil Smallpiece]

I can right click to get airport information in Memory Map 2004, I simply put the cursor over the desired airfield, right click, in the menu 'Maps at Cursor' left click on 'CAA EGxx xxxxx'. Great for taxying at Manchester, never get lost...

[IO540]

Interesting discussion indeed, Fuji.

PFMS confirms what I say about VFR charts not being any kind of rocket science. The CAA is simply backward in the way they approach it. However, any product would be useless unless it did Europe too and thus discussing the CAA is a bit of a dead end.

One needs a unified approach for Europe. Jepp have this with their VFR/GPS 1:500k charts, £200 for the CD. It runs under Flitestar (which is purely a ground based flight planning program, with no moving map capability). It also runs under Flitemap which is Flitestar but with a moving map function, but Jepp dropped FM in 2005. I don't know why but it is almost certainly either because they wanted to push everybody towards their current Jeppview/Flitedeck product (which is a cut-down version of Flitemap but including approach plates), or they found "something" in FM which could be a potential legal liability. So, in short, there is now no way to run these charts as a moving map unless you pick up an old copy of FM :ugh: Luckily FM is still updated with FS updates, and they continue.

Every major national CAA does their own VFR charts, all done in different ways, and none (except USA) available electronically.

It's going to get harder from now on. I believe DAFIF data contained controlled airspace / danger area shapes, as a digitally readable coordinate list, and this could be fed directly into a flight planning program. Now, someone will have to wade through the AIPs and see which numbers have changed :ugh:

This plays into the hands of Jepp of course and it would not suprise me if at least some CAAs have done a $$$ deal with Jepp to allow Jepp to use their "copyright" AIP data, in return for which they make it hard for others to enter the market. The Australian case (where the CAA sued Jepp for copyright infringement of their AIP data, and then quietly settled) is a likely example of this. If true, it would be truly disgraceful in a field where the word "safety" is used as a wedge to get every stupid reg pushed through. But this would be normal practice in the corporate game, so we should not be suprised.

ICAO should mandate every CAA to publish their CAS as a machine readable coordinate list.

Eurocontrol have without a doubt done this... somehow. If you look at their Skyview (http://www.eurocontrol.int/aim/public/standard_page/skyview_intro.html)java product you can immediately see that they have a database of everything, covering Europe and more, and SV is just a viewer for the database. It's a pretty useless tool for anything practical IMHO. I've tried using it to generate IFR enroute charts (which I could georeference and run as a backup GPS moving map) but there is no means to generate the a large output file needed. One could use it to generate VFR charts too but they would more closely resemble the (photo-like) output of google earth with the stuff superimposed on it. They don't reply to emails either.

However I am sure everybody in the flight planning software business has now moved from DAFIF over to this data, also available via EAD (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadcms/eadsite/index.php.html), and is busy producing reports of navaids etc.

So, the data is there to produce VFR charts, but it needs a bit of an effort. I think one full-time person could generate within 1 year, and then keep up to date, VFR charts for all of Europe, with the underlying database. Let's face it, Navbox does it with one man and he also runs a pilot shop. They just haven't got the VFR chart details, and the product has been frozen for some years.

I've just bought a Garmin 496, mainly for use (connected to the intercom audio input) as a TAWS device for IFR. It's nice enough but for real use the screen is way too small compared to an 8" tablet.

I wish the Avmap EKP IV did the same TAWS as the G496; it has a much better bigger screen. But it has close to zero support, despite being made in Italy.

Garmin are going to take over the world eventually and it would not suprise me if they get shot of Jepp data one day. They already don't use it for terrain elevations; they use the SRTM data for that and very effectively too.

[Mike Cross]

Airservices Australia sought to establish copyright over the information in the Australian AIP in a court case filed in 2003.
I don't know whether that case is still in progress but interestingly in July 2006 Airservices Australia were ordered (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/federal_ct/2006/906.html) by the Federal Court to pay the defendants' costs in respect of certain work.COSTS – where substantial delay in proceedings caused by numerous attempts at amending the Application and Statement of Claim, directions hearings have been held which should not have been necessary and interlocutory steps taken and applications brought unnecessarily given the changes to the pleadings.
Held: the costs thrown away should be paid by the applicant forthwith.


AFIK no attempt has been made by UK AIS or the UK CAA to assert copyright on their data.


Mike

[IO540]

AFIK no attempt has been made by UK AIS or the UK CAA to assert copyright on their data.

IMHO they would be hard pushed to do so, given the stuff has been available freely via Eurocontrol for years.

Am I right that Australia used to do a printed-only AIP? Like Greece does, to this day. Lot easier to copyright that.

[Diddley Dee]

I have very recently bought the Flymap PDA package. Having only flown with it once thus far, its only my first impression but I am over the moon with it.

The size of screen is fine for the speed I fly at (100 kts cruise) and the Clarity of the CAA 1/2 mil chart installed on it is spot on when zoomed in(allowing you to see about 10 miles ahead which I find fine).

Someone mentioned danger area shown as green.... All airspace reservations are displayed as green if they are in your vicinity. If your track is going to take you into the area, it will turn red. It will also tell you when you are going to enter the airsapce on the bottom right of the screen and as you enter the information moves over to the bottom left of the screen indiacting you are now in it.

You can plan routes on it no problem and pull up airfield diagrams from pooleys on it.

Yes it does display your GS, current heading, track to WP, time to WP Time to destination etc

I have made a small metal kneeboard & mount it onto that (via velcro) and it holds a GPS signal well with its internal GPS receiver.

The Flymap PDA used in combination with my paper chart seems to be the perfect combination for my UK VFR flying.

Very very pleased with it & with the helpfullness of Will at Flymap.

Well worth a look dependant on the type / speed of flying you do

DD