Flight to Morocco

[glazer]

I am thinking about flying to Marrakesh this year in August (yes I know it will be particularly hot then!!). I would be interested to hear from anyone who has flown in Morocco and especially to Marrakesh for any information, experiences etc.
Mike Glazer
Cirrus SR22

[172driver]

Done that a few times, have a look at this old post (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2622568&postcount=3)
Only thing to add would be avoid GMTN (Tetouan), a right royal pain in the a** and this rubbish dump of a place isn't worth going anyway.

[glazer]

Many thanks for the useful info. Where do you suggest I obtain the necessary VFR maps for Morocco?
Mike

[172driver]

Mike, will you be flying your own (or club) a/c or be renting in southern Spain ? In case of the latter, Aerodynamics and AFAIK Fly-in-Spain provide them. If not, let me know, should be able to help.

[glazer]

I shall be flying my own aircraft (Cirrus SR22) with myself+2. Thanks for the offer of help!

Mike

[acuba 290]

anyway i would recommend you get in contact with Fly-In-Spain, as they are specializing in flights to Marocco and can provide you with some help;)
http://www.fly-in-international.com/en/fluggebiete/fluggebiete_mk/flugziel_marokko.php?navid=16

[G-SPOTs Lost]

I fly a citation in Morroco, albeit IFR but i would strongly suggest that you get handling if its not already mandatory.

Tangiers is worth a look, they have an aero club, avgas and probably the best bazars in north africa. Its the northern most airfield in Morroco

Also have lots of small denomination notes handy to grease the wheels of industry :rolleyes:

[glazer]

Many thanks. I have now sent an email to Fly in Spain.

Mike

[Mariner9]

Did Morocco last September, visiting Tanger, Marrakech, Fez, then Tetouan.

Current VFR charts are the 1996 :eek: edition US "TPC" charts. Pooleys sell them, I think Transair do too. The airspace is well out of date though, but the info is available at the Tanger Flight planning office. The Jepp S Spain chart covers down to Tanger, my recommendation would be to go there 1st, and spend an hour in flight planning, the guys there are really helpful.

Flightplans are mandatory, and you are expected to fly standard VFR routes via VRP's - few of which are marked on the TPC charts but all are available from Tanger. Strangely, a lot of the VRP's seem to be in restricted areas, but apparently they are nearly always inactive.

Tanger to Marrakech the VRP's are Tanger-IBDIR-TIFLET-LEMDI-NEKTI-MAK-Marrakech. Marrakeck to Fez was back to TIFLET then MEKNES-SAISS(Fez). Fez to Tetouan via the Atlas mountains was SAISS-Dar Zwitna-DORDRA-Tetouan. Can provide coordinates for all the VRP's if they'd be helpful, but suggest you get the TPC charts 1st.

Each of the 4 airfields we visited had fuel, though the fuel at Tetouan is hand-pumped from a 45 gallon can. Payment invariably had to be in cash, but they would only accept Euros, and never had any change :rolleyes: We withdrew a huge wedge of local dosh (Dirhams) at Tanger to pay for fuel etc, but nobody but the Souk's would take it

Three of airfields were extremely friendly; Marrakech was the exception, but they were courteous enough (just). Didn't have any problems whatsoever with officialdom, though you can expect to be filling immigration/customs forms in triplicate at each destination - even for internal flights.

Of all the places we went, Fez was by far the most interesting. If you go to the Medina there do take a guide or you will get lost. It is possible to wander around the Medina's at Tanger and Marrakech (both of which are smaller) without getting too lost.

Once south of Tanger, the scenery is stunning, particularly in the Atlas mountains. A fabulous flying destination IMHO

M9

[Mariner9]

A couple of pics of said Atlas mountains...
http://i10.tinypic.com/4d1znuq.jpg
http://i9.tinypic.com/2gsedec.jpg

[IO540]

The traditional way for the 3rd world (like Greece :) ) where there are no VFR charts, is the U.S. TPC or ONC charts. These were last updated c. 1998 and the only CAS they contain are the danger areas (out of date of course).

Then buy the Jepp IFR (airways) charts and transpose the CAS shapes from them onto the ONC charts. Or you can do it from Navbox; it shows a bit of Morroco.

Actually in this case you can get Jepp "VFR/GPS" charts all the way to the end of Spain, so there is only Morroco left to do.

[glazer]

Lots of useful advice. Many thanks. It looks quite a challenge so should be an interesting trip. Lots of suncream will be needed I guess!
Mike

[jai6638]

Hello there!

Pardon my ignorance, what do TPC, ONC and CAS stand for?


Thanks

[IO540]

TPC and ONC are American US Air Force aviation charts, which as far as I know are no longer updated, but are still available.

CAS is controlled airspace, which for VFR is Class D,C,B,A

[davidatter708]

Sorry this is a bit aside I'll be doing my Duke Of Edinburgh Gold award based in Marakesh in july this year. Have a great trip I will hopefully
David

[172driver]

can someone here enlighten me on how to post images :confused: tried via Flickr, but that didn't work :ugh:

[Mariner9]

I use tinypics (http://tinypic.com/). Once you've uploaded the image just paste the supplied URL between the "" and the ""

[172driver]

Mariner9, thanks :ok:

Here's what the dunes at Erg Shebbi look like from about 1000 ft

http://i10.tinypic.com/4c238yh.jpg

[Bluebeard777]

I flew VFR around Morocco in September, pretty straightforward. For maps I just brought a road map and marked up the VFR reporting points for each leg, using the charts in each airport's planning office. I also took digi photos of these maps for planning. Pm me if you want a list of VFR points coordinates and the map photos.

Marrakech was disappointing, other cities much more attractive. If I were going again I wouldnt bother with Marrakech - too many tourists!

Btw those Atlas mountains are high - take care.

[IO540]

Very nice pics - I am going later in 2007.

[G-Dawg]

I'm on the B73 out of Casa so can't really help on the nav front, but just to say that you probably want to stay clear of Casa, not much to see really. A long the beach front is ok but in summer will be crazy busy with lots of beggers. Casablanca is the biggest city, but i would say it's the Birmingham of Morocco. There are better cities to visit. If i can help feel free to get in touch, we regularly stop over in Marrakesh..hotels..etc...

Gareth

[170']

Bluebeard777...Check your PM's...Thanks

[IFollowRailways]

I flew out to the Canaries in a Turbo Arrow. I only used Tangiers and Agadir both ways, so can't comment about other airfields, but the guys at Tangier flight briefing were very helpful regarding VRP's and routing. I used the TPC and ONC charts and the Tangier flight briefing guys gave me a photocopied sheet of the VRP's and routes which I transposed onto the charts and into the GPS! Take plenty of small denomination cash (notes!) and also packets of Marlboro cigarettes were very popular. Watch out for all the royal palaces - I was told that most of the routings were to avoid them!

[170']

Recent flight : 5 Fev 2007 to 11th Fev 2007

We refuelled at Tanger, Casa, Ouarzazate.
(commercial helicopter operation using Jet A)

We were in the 6 tonne category, and paid around €100-150 airport taxes at each stop with Jet A being between 48-61 € cents…I didn’t check on Avgas prices or availability, but saw many small FW around so it’s available…

If you pay in € as we did, no change will be available…Ever!… so take lots…..
and I mean LOTS…. of small denomination bills in both Dh and Euro…

We routed the same way both ways, with differences in price both times!

Handling in Casablanca was necessary as we were parked a long way from AIS..
Requests to park closer were denied…Cost €200.00 for a car ride to AIS for flight plan and meteo… (Handling)

If you want to save hassles. Pre-arrange handling via Royal Air Maroc services…The price will be different if you pre-book it via email....

Although we are commercial operators. It was a ferry flight down and back, so all our paperwork stated we were a private flight….I don’t know if we were handled any differently to a genuine private flight….But on one occasion, they asked to see the co-pilot and engineers licences as well, to confirm we were all crew and weren’t trying to avoid the pax tax…160DH in Tanger and 360DH in Ouarzazate…

It’s better to use French on the radio. My colleague didn’t feel confident in French and many requests were denied. When I repeated the request in French, we got more or less what we wanted. They speak fluent (ish) aviation English, but like many places, are confused by non standard phrases…

Any change of routing (wx etc) can be a challenge...

Helicopter people should be aware that any off airport landing is an additional authorization (which you won’t get anyway)…So it’s pretty much a waste of time going in a helo….

We were under pressure time wise, as we were delayed by a day on our departure from base. But if you’re going for pleasure. I’d still strongly advise you to give yourself plenty of time for delays…A fuel turn can easily take 4 hours….And you’ll clear customs/Immigration at each and every landing….

The area along the Algerian border is super sensitive at low level and authorizations for this area are really difficult to come by (our Area of Ops) Although there are many things to see in the region. It would be far simpler to plan for say 'Oarzazate ' and take a jeep with French/English speaking driver @200.00 a day plus tip for driver..

Pm me if you have a particular question I might be able to help with..I don't normally hang out in this forum....Enjoy you're trip....170


ps...I highly recommend the 'Riad Salam Ouarzazate' if you're in the region...Really nice guys...clean and cheap with huge rooms...beautiful place to stay...air of colonialism with no apparent ill feeling, and good food with no hygiene issues...

[172driver]

But if you’re going for pleasure. I’d still strongly advise you to give yourself plenty of time for delays…A fuel turn can easily take 4 hours….And you’ll clear customs/Immigration at each and every landing….

The area along the Algerian border is super sensitive at low level and authorizations for this area are really difficult to come by

170, I acknowledge your flight is a bit more recent than my last, but in my experience none of the above is correct. Fuel (100LL) was quick where available (in a couple of cases ATC enquired upon first contact and the bowser was ready on landing), I never had to clear immigration after the initial landing in Maroc and also had no probs getting clearance for Erg Shebbi. Maybe flying an F-reg helo (guessing that from you location) makes them a bit jumpier ;)

[GrumpyP]

The Grumpy Gang (Grumman owners) are planning a trip to Morocco in September and the tips from this Forum were very helpful. Some pilots will be limited to VFR only, which makes planning alittle more difficult.

I would like to take up Bluebeard777's offer of the VRPs, please.

Any other information will be well received.

Thanks

[Mariner9]

Lots of stuff about Morocco here (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=22704&highlight=marrakech)

You'll have to wade through a lot of useless stuff, but there's also loads of discussion about planning/waypoints/charts etc and photos/write-up of the trip.

I've got all the waypoints for Tanger-Marrakech-Fez-Tetouan stored in my GPS, will copy them all down next time I fly (prolly this coming weekend) & post them on here.

[Bluebeard777]

Sorry for the delay, I am travelling. Here is a list of some Moroccan VFR waypoints that may be helpful, will help you distinguish your Bolmalne's from your Boulmane's! :

AIT OURIR N31 34.570 W7 38.000
AZROU N33 27.004 W5 13.300
BAKRA N33 35.005 W6 54.008
BENI MELIL N32 24.004 W6 20.008
BERJA N36 50.000 W2 55.000
BARRAGE BENI BATOUTA N35 38.006 W5 43.001
BOMALNE N31 22.009 W5 59.020
BOULEMANE N33 22.309 W4 44.300
DAR ZWITNA N34 16.006 W4 54.001
DARDARA N35 07.006 W5 17.301
GOULMINA N31 41.509 W4 57.000
IBDIR N34 32.003 W6 19.000
KHENIFRA N32 57.004 W5 40.008
LEMDI N33 04.000 W7 15.000
LINTO N35 50.003 W5 57.300
NEKTI N32 29.001 W7 36.001
NORD MEKNES N33 58.300 W5 30.000
NZALA N32 28.009 W4 30.000
OULED AIGU N31 35.250 W7 47.250
RACHIDIA N31 57.009 W4 24.030
SEFROU N33 50.009 W4 50.000
SEKORA N31 04.009 W6 33.020
TADDART N31 21.400 W7 24.000
TICHKA N31 16.004 W7 23.008
TIFLET N33 54.001 W6 18.001
UVETA N32 15.000 W7 58.000

I hope there are no mistakes above, "please do not use for navigation" :}
I have photos (not great quality tho) of some of the Moroccan charts that show the VFR routes, can email to interested parties (pm me). Please note that these charts (as displayed in various airport flight planning offices) do not always show the same routes. Also, some routes pass through military areas and you may need to get permission to transit .......

[GrumpyP]

Bluebeard777 / Mariner9

Got the VRPs. Thanks to you both for your help.

I have ordered TPC charts and IFR Low Altitude Enroute charts. We will be a mix of IR and VFR pilots, so my planning is covering both. We will be limiting the number of 'planes, but has anyone any experience with flying with a group in Morocco? Any problems with say 6 'planes arriving at the same time? Most of the 'planes will be Grumman AA5s.

[gekko]

Hello all,
is there someone who knows if there's an AIP de Maroc published (on the internet)...?
Many thanks
P.S.: I am especially looking for AD (GMMZ) charts...If anyone could help me...thanks!

[ericferret]

Feb 2003 issue of Pilot mag has a superb article if you can find a back issue.

[172driver]

gekko, for a comprehensive listing of info check out

http://www.flightsystem.net/

unfortunately only in French and no charts, otherwise a great compendium of GA knowledge for Morocco. To the best of my knowledge, you can only buy the official charts / plates in Morocco itself. A Google search, however, will surely bring up something (FS ?), perhaps something 'not to be used for navigation' ;)

Have a great trip :ok:

[gekko]

thanks!:ok:

[Bluebeard777]

Flightsystem.net has some charts I think, at least I got a VAC for Marrakech (pm me if you want a copy emailed) from somewhere on the web.

Re comment above regarding buying VFR charts in Morocco, no such charts were available for sale last autumn at the four airfields I visited, although the DGAC apparently has plans to issue these at some indeterminate future time .......

[denhamflyer]

Just got back from Morroco yesterday.
try AIP (http://www.onda.org.ma/ONDA/Fr/Espaces/EspaceONDA/LInstitution/Lesmissions/Informations+a%C3%A9ronautiques+%28SIA%29/AIP+en+projet.htm)

WARNING:
if you want fuel in Marrakesh they are getting a real pain about proving where you got you money from (Dirhams) we had numerous receipts (ATM's banks etc.) NONE were accepted without a serial number and stamp!

We argued for an hour and they finally lets us have some fuel! So if you want an easy life take loads of Euros/Stirling and get it changed and check the receipt is serial numbered and stamped (I suspect this is a mild form of corruption which we refused to take part in)

On the visiting front only do a day or two in Marrakesh or stay at somewhere like Jnane Tamsna (exellent a beautiful place outside marrakesh) - best placed we stayed at during the whole visit. Also Ouarzazate (Waz a zat) and Zagora (Riad Lamane) are interesting bases. The begging in the big cities can be a pain (kids perpetually approaching you - even in the dessert whislt on camel!). Please dont give them money it only makes them worse!

Visit further south - we went all the way down to near the algerian border (4x4 not plane Im afraid). Some fantastic scenery. Be careful driving the mountain roads, we witnessed a local lorry driver go over the edge with very little of him and his truck left.. ( not the best start to a holiday).

I would try and get hold of the new VFR charts they have mandatory routing on them and they wont accept flight plans without them (although CASA control dont know half the points so when reporting they will say "where")
Unfortunately we didnt get into Casablanca which is where you get them - we were just using the old TPC's

Apart from the bureaucracy we very much enjoyed the trip and flying. If you want the contact of an excellent guide/driver (english) then PM me.

[172driver]

To the best of my knowledge you can only bu the charts at the DGAC office in Casa, not at any airport (I've tried.....)

Denhamflyer, thanks for this info - must be a new trick....

Routes have always been compulsory - are you saying they've changed ?

[denhamflyer]

I agree I didnt mean the airport but the place. Each airport does have a copy up on the wall so we just studied the points and copied them down. Interestingly the chart does NOT go as far south as Marrakesh so an old chart is usually patched below it! I dont believe mandatory VFR routes are new but I didnt want people to think that you can just bimble about in Morocco, and that they DO check the plans! In fact spain did a fair amount of check of VFR routing since they have introduced a huge number of restrictions.

The staff at Tangier were very helpful. The staff at Marrakesh dont always do change so make sure you have small notes available typlically you are given 100 and 200's which most people wont take, so it can get expensive with all the rounding up they do!

It appears that they dont know all of them and it is best to stand by the chart and assert what YOU want an not what they suggest. i.e. we wanted the mountains and they are used to taking people up the coast.

Another minor point is that Marrakesh is having a new building built and that Vol Prive/Departure flights go from the left hand side of the building underconstruction and cant be reached from the RHS (primary walkway).

[DLT1939]

Also just returned from Morocco with a group of 6 light a/c and echo much of what has already been said. Recommend you get a Shell card for fuel to avoid the Marrakech lust for Dirham cash. Fes fuelling is much easier with
Euro cash accepted and Fes is altogether a much nicer destination. Parking at Marrakech is a long way (800m) from the terminal without transport unless you have expensive handling or meet a friendly apron van.

VFR charts are out of print, but all the AIS's have them and the VFR guide which lists the co-ordinates of the points - already helpfully listed on the forum. AIS at Marrakech were happy for us to photocopy their chart.

Avoid declaring pax if possible as charges for them can double the otherwise reasonable landing fees.

An old version of the Moroccan AIP is available at:

http://www.onda.ma/ONDA/Fr/Espaces/EspaceONDA/LInstitution/Lesmissions/Informations+aéronautiques+%28SIA%29/AIP+en+projet.htm

but still seems valid. There is no terminal radar so all IFR arrivals/departures are procedural and constant position reporting is required. VFR flights are easily fitted in.