NQ in FAA School in USA

[acuba 290]

i remember it was discussed couple of times, but still would like to ask, if it possible to make 5hr nihgt training in USA at normal american FAA school with american non-JAA instructor and will it be ok for UK CAA to issue NQ into my JAA-PPL license? I know that there is no NQ in USA, but if i give JAA requirements to american instructor and fly exactly that programm with 1hr navigation and 5 full-stop landings etc.`?

[B2N2]

Don't think so, you'll have to do it with a JAA approved FTO.
Outside of an FTO you will be hard pressed to find a FAA CFI willing to sign you off for solo night priviliges.

[acuba 290]

I would not have thought it was a big deal to get your NQ in your own local country.

i don't like prices in my local country;)
in Germany for example sometimes you have to pay 75-95 Euros just for instructor flying at night:)

[IO540]

A FAA instructor is not authorized to perform JAA training.

Welcome to protectionist Europe :)

The FAA, OTOH, accepts all training done anywhere else. Even training done in a G-reg with a JAA instructor.

There is a lesson here: when doing any JAA training, always try to structure the flights so that the FAA PPL requirements are met at the same time. It's pretty easy to do that, and then you can get a standalone FAA PPL without too much extra flying. The FAA PPL has more night flight than the JAA NQ.

[acuba 290]

and there is no other JAA approved schools in LA, except of UKFT?

[BillieBob]

Not quite - UKFT is not approved by the JAA, despite their dishonest marketing. The only school on the west coast that holds a JAA approval is Anglo American Aviation at Gillespie Field, San Diego.

[EvilKitty]

and there is no other JAA approved schools in LA, except of UKFT?

UKFT are not an JAA approved FTO (hence cannot do JAA-FCL ab initio training) but they do have an approved JAA examiner. I'm not sure how this affects the NQ but they claim to be able to conduct both the NQ and IMC on their website (someone who understands the regs better than me can probably explain why).

If you're training in California and want an approved JAA FTO then there's Anglo American in San Diego. If its North America you're interested in then its either Florida or Moncton (in Canada).

[acuba 290]

So little training is required to get a NQ in Europe that despite your rate, it still has to be cheaper than coming all the way to the US to find a JAA approved school and going through the Visa process. (I'm assuming that you would need a Visa as this is flight training).

UKFT do not train for a JAA license. There are a multitude of posts on here re UKFT.

for NQ there is no need for a visa and i will be in LA because of business trip, so it cost me no extra to come to California from Germany. And also don't forget about landing fees etc. I am sure it more that 2 times cheaper to do in USA to compare with Europe;)

[englishal]

You don't need CAA approval for a NQ once you have a PPL......just a CAA certified examiner. Same for licence conversions, IMC etc....
It'll cost you say 5x $75 for a 172 and 4x$45 for instructor (I forget how many hours instruction are needed) = $555 which is roughly £280.

I asked the CAA if I could have a NQ based upon my American licence.....I have about 20 hours night. They said that I needed an amount of "minimum training to be determined by an FTO"..what a load of bollox.

[acuba 290]

Well if you decide on San Diego, be aware that San Diego is 200km from Los Angeles for your planning.
UKFT out of Long Beach do not seem to have good recommendations - but that is your choice.

well, after all answers i still don't understand, if i can fly this 5 hours with FAA instructor or not...If yes, i don't need San Diego at all, in that case i can book 5 h training in any school in LA...So i still don't understand if UK CAA accepts those Hours in USA or not...

[acuba 290]

You don't need CAA approval for a NQ once you have a PPL......just a CAA certified examiner. Same for licence conversions, IMC etc....


For NQ there is no need for examiner at all as there is no exam, so what do you mean with it?

[Keygrip]

I'm glad you asked that, as I was longing to see where the thread went about examiners.

If I hadn't been watching a DVD (Tom Hanks, Cast Away) I might have done the question before you.

So - why are you all quoting the requirement for a JAA examiner?

[acuba 290]

ok, if it so complicated, I'll do NQ in Europe;)

[englishal]

For NQ there is no need for examiner at all as there is no exam, so what do you mean with it?
Beacause a CAA examiner is required to sign the paper work AFAIK. I once asked a CAA examiner in the USA if he would sign my paperwork. "If you do 5 hours with one of my instructors" he said. Incidentally you can use FAA instructors, as long as the signature is a CAA examiner. If this information is wrong then I have been mislead by a CAA examiner in the USA in order to line his pockets with my money :ugh:

I have tried converting my FAA Night hours to a JAA NQ but no joy, it really is a protectionist racket. Night is night, is night, is night......where ever you fly it.

If a CAA examiner is not required to sign, then I shall get my friendly JAA / FAA dual rated FI to sign it for me......

[Keygrip]

If this information is wrong then I have been mislead by a CAA examiner in the USA in order to line his pockets with my money :ugh:
You've been mislead.

BTW - what does it say on the form (where it asks for signature)?

[rudestuff]

If you want to do the training in the US, why not fly some dual at night, then take an FAA checkride? That way if you want to fly at night, just use your FAA licence...

[englishal]

BTW - what does it say on the form (where it asks for signature)?
I don't know? Give me a clue ;)

[acuba 290]

If you want to do the training in the US, why not fly some dual at night, then take an FAA checkride? That way if you want to fly at night, just use your FAA licence...

well, in that case i need US visa, TSA and written exam .I am not going to fly in USA so much, so i don't need stand alone license

[EvilKitty]

well, in that case i need US visa, TSA and written exam .I am not going to fly in USA so much, so i don't need stand alone license

TSA authorisation is only needed for training towards the initial issuance of a licence or rating, i.e. PPL, ME, IR. The AFSP Candidate FAQ has all the gory details https://www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/afsp_faq.htm

Not sure about the visa...

As an aside, the FAQ lists the criteria for needing to participate in the scheme as being:

They are not citizens or nationals of the United States; and
They wish to receive flight training for any aircraft that will lead to an FAA certification or type rating, regardless of whether training occurs in the U.S. or abroad.

which would seem to indicate that for non FAA training (i.e. JAA) you don't need the TSA approval (although you would still need the visa). Personally, I wouldn't want to argue this with them, but I wonder if anyone has asked for clarification previously on this point?

[acuba 290]

thanx everybody for your tips. I have done NQ in San Diego. Great school, very good instructors and nice place and weather. That was a JAA approved school http://www.flyaaa.com/school.html (http://http//www.flyaaa.com/school.html)
We were flying from KSEE to KSNA and KTOA and was very interesting. Had a big fun there ;)

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

I missed this thread first time around, or would have chipped in earlier to counter all the mis-information.

I got my NQ at AAA last November (signed off by a JAA instructor).

Which instructor(s) did you fly with?

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

Sorry SoCal, my post was a little more abrupt than I intended! But since you ask:
It is perfectly acceptable to mix FAA and JAA training for the NQ, atleast for the UK CAA.
LASORS E4.2 states
"Any previous night flying training completed in an ICAO Contracting State may be credited towards the JAR-FCL Night Qualification (Aeroplane) flying training requirements."
It will be necessary to convince a JAA instructor that the flying experience requirements have been met and may involve further discretionary training (probably not if you know the instructor ;) ).
Regarding getting signed off by an FAA instructor for night solo priveliges, I discussed this with the FAA inspector at the FSDO when collecting my temporary airman's certificate. He wanted an FAA CFI to endorse my logbook when I was ready to solo at night (obviously a JAA instructor has no jurisdiction to do so in the US). It was a bit of catch 22 situation, because the FAA license is only valid on the back of my CAA one and the CAA one clearly stated that I cannot fly at night! The inspector thought we were making a mountain out of a mole hill and I should just go fly.
UKFT are able to train for NQ and IMC rating because they can be done outside of a JAA FTO (not so for PPL training).

I think the (non)requirement for a CAA examiner to sign off NQ has been put to bed (not like englishal to be wrong about something like that, so it caught my attention;) ).

AAA are one of the few schools that understand the Visa and TSA regs and are prepared to implement them as written, rather than a safe interpretation. e.g. a qualification is not a rating but most schools will not argue that with the TSA (not that AAA have, but they may have to one of these days).