Flying across America -- tips, advice and the like...

[Anonystude]

Myself and a good friend of mine graduate from university this summer, and as such we've decided to take the chance of a lifetime and fly across the US in a light single. We're both JAR PPL's (or will be), me with the best part of 250hrs and an IMC, mate with around 60.

At the moment, I (as designated faff bitch) am contemplating starting in Florida, flying west to the Californian coast, then back across the Midwest. We've got a reasonable budget (thank you, Student Loan Company) that would probably stretch to that kind of route (or similar -- think around 50-70 hours).

As such, I was wondering if the collective knowledge of PPRuNe might throw up any advice on the following:

a) Places to hire aircraft -- I notice Ormond Beach are particularly cheap*, compared to most other places in Florida: as neither of us will be FAA IR'd up, we're not worried about having a full IFR setup (plus it's summer, in FAA land and therefore the weather will be mandatory CAVOK VFR the whole time, no? ;)). Having said that, as price is likely to be a driving factor, anyone got any recommendations?
b) Places to see -- this is a once in a lifetime trip, don't want to miss anything
c) Converting licence -- I'd imagine we'll both get an FAA PPL on the basis of our JAA ones, purely to avoid TSA/M-1 visa faff. Is it worth getting a JAA night tick-in-box before going?
d) Anything we might've missed? Pitfalls? Traps?

Thanks for any advice you might be able to give us. I'm sorry if I've made you all jealous, now...

* and yes, I've seen the massive thread on OBA, and yes, I'm aware of its reputation...

[FunFlyin]

Make sure on your tour you fly into Sedona airfield.

Stop at the restaurant up there too - some great food. And the all you can eat snow crab was fantastic :p

[littco]

Sounds like a nice trip.
You will need the FAA cert - start the process around 4 months before your trip

Just a little note to add to the above, The FAA do state 45-90 days for them to complete the application and I may be an expection but I got mine in less than 3 weeks, admittely a few polite emails to the CAA and FAA but it can be done pretty quickly. I guess this depends on the work load they have but as I said I think it was an expection rather than the rule...

[tangovictor]

sounds like an amazing trip, have fun, top tip, as you have time to plan, why not contact the flying mags, and see if they would buy your story, I doubt the fee would cover much of your ex's, but, if your on a tight budget, worth thinking about, Good Luck

[fernytickles]

What a fantastic sounding trip.

You might find www.airnav.com useful for airport info.

EAA chapters abound all over North America and members are always pleased to see folks. Aim for fly-ins and pancake breakfasts, stopping off, of course at the biggest of them all - AirVenture (www.airventure.org) at the end of July. Avoid larger airports with handling fees, many smaller airports have courtesy cars and Mom & Pop type restaurants within easy reach.

Cirrus have a good website with info on flying up to Alaska if you think you might head that way. Infact, rather than doing east to west, which is pretty flat for 2/3 of the trip, how about doing south to north, all the way up the Rockies to Alaska and back. Now that would be cool :ok:

Whatever you choose to do, you will find that North America is a phenominal place to fly - the variety of airports, the neat people and planes you get to meet, the ease of access to everything and the breathtaking scenery.

Blimey, I sound like a holiday brochure.... :eek: Have a great trip.

[slim_slag]

fernytickles gives good advice.

Just off the top of my head, will have missed stuff.

1) Make sure the place you rent the plane from will let you go on a long trip. Try and rent dry, will save you a fortune.
2) Add renter's insurance to the cost
3) Get all the WACs for now and daydream about what you might do. When you are on the trip just decide the night before where to go next. Or make it up as you go along, just don't run out of fuel and keep an eye on the weather.
4) On the WACs you will see a huge mountain range (Rockies). Don't expect to get over this in a rental single around the middle going east-west-east, you should probably plan to go north of it one way and south of it the other. If you do want to go straight across somewhere around Denver then get some mountain flying training before and don't get complacent.
5) Don't assume the weather will be good, you will hit nasty weather at some time. US weather is different to that in Europe. Just monitor weather.com and see how weather crosses the States. weather.com is very useful to see the big picture. Aviation weather is freely available and all over the web, find out how to use it.
6) Get a duats login and make sure you can work the web site.
7) get to know airnav.com
8) I'd get the night training added to your certifiate, could be part of the checkout at the originating FBO and if done correctly will teach you about planning a short cross country and give a taste of ATC services. Might come in useful and no big deal.
9) Summer in the West is very hot and can be windy, so you will discover what real turbulence is.
10) Read up on the services available from FSS and ATC and make sure you use them.

It will be a great experience. I wouldn't call it a 'trip of a lifetime' as you can easily just do it again :)

[B2N2]

Get a night rating, you will need it.
Some good websites to use during your trip;
Flight planning and a lot of other info
www.landings.com top right H corner for flightplanning.



http://adds.aviationweather.gov/progs/
A lot of weather info here

www.airnav.com
Especially:
http://www.airnav.com/fuel/


Summertime is Tornado time in the MidWest.
You will get yourself stuck because of weather, good news is that it usually doesn't last long.

Even though you are not legal to fly with your IMC rating, get a plane which is IFR certified and current.
It may save your life some day if you get in a pickle.

[david viewing]

Some good advice above.

I did Arizona - Florida and back last month.

I chose a northerly routing outbound, Santa Fe - Oklahoma City (Norman) - Atlanta and the gulf coast inbound Pennsacola - Galveston - Carlsbad.

On the northern route Santa Fe is neat if you are an arts fan. Nicest place enroute was Rock Springs. Oklahoma Norman is a nice town with a good museum and Atlanta is well, Atlanta. (I went to Fulton Co. - nice FBO but $20 per night).

The gulf coast beaches are a must. The water is bath temperature and the sand is clean. I stopped in Galveston which is much less worse than you might think. Be sure to get a beach facing hotel - I used the BW which is right across the highway. Carlsbad cavern is astonishing, as is the evening bat flight. Be sure to stay over to witness this.

You might choose to route along the border and Deming NM is convenient with hotels as is Yuma further west. You can do all of this at fairly low level but you will soon be climbing to 10,000' en route anyway to escape the heat.

The gulf coast route involves a fair bit of sea shore and inlets and you might want to consider wearing lfejackets..

Thunderstorms are an inevitable factor on this type of trip and nothing beats the 'fly early' (eg 6am) advice. Vis may be very poor in places and those IMC skills won't be wasted!

I was solo in a 172. 2 up and you will be struggling at some of the high altitudes and temps. It's often said that 'sea level' aeroplanes are set up differently and leaning may not be part of the essential actions in Florida, so do be sure that you get instruction in lean for takeoff operation. 180Hp is a lot better than 160.

Watch out for variable winds on hot midday takeoffs, since light to variable may mean a tailwind on the runway by the time you get there and the difference between a comfortable takeoff and a white knuckle ride. Stay on the ground until you are sure of flying speed, ie don't rotate early, and shallow the climb until the speed is 70.

Actually flying these routes is a dream, with co-operative ATC (No concept of "remain clear of controlled airspace") wonderful FSS briefing and accurate and accessible forcasts.

A final thought: Don't be tempted to "push on". A 4Hr leg may help make up some lost time elsewhere but on the wrong day it's a long time in a single. That's when silly things happen, like forgetting which FBO you are going to after finally finding the airport and landing! It's surprising how tired you can be.

Good luck!

[B2N2]

As far as fuel consumption is concerned, you will be flying an unfamiliar airplane with fuel gauges of unknown accuracy.
This is what I used to do for looooong trips....;
Make the first leg a 2 hr leg, note your altitude ,OAT and throttle & mixture settings,
Top off the fuel and calculate fuel burn/hr.
Make the 2nd leg a 3hr leg, note the same parameters, calculate fuel burn.
Make the 3rd leg a 3hr leg, same as above, you should now have a reliable fuel burn figure for that particular airplane.
Add .5 gallons/hr just to have a safety margin, eg 7.8 iso 7.3/hr.
I used to have a kitchen timer, engine start have it count down (in my case) from 4.0 hrs, when that timer reaches zero you better be taxiing on the ramp at your destination.
Using this method I have safely flown 4hr legs in a regular 1978 C172 and 5 hr legs in an equally ancient Pa-28.
When you plan your flights mark airports 0.5 hrs and 1hr before and after your destination, in case winds aloft go all over the place.
Take life vests and maybe even a raft, if weather forces you offshore you can easily get out of glide range.
Score yourself a reliable little GPS from ebay as back up in case your nav goes t***-up.
Make sure the plane has the required 100 hr and annual inspection before you leave.
Buy yourself one of these $2 Carbon monoxide detectors and check if the heater works correctly.
Some rental places will actually disconnect it to save on MX.
Make a written agreement with the owner/flightschool concerning unscheduled maintenance enroute, eg who pays for the starter/tires etc etc.

[IO540]

I'd get a decent GPS with a current database for the area ;)

[B2N2]

Have you considered a Diesel( Jet A) equipped Cessna 172SP?
Great avionics and a ridiculous 10 hr endurance.
Epic Aviation in New Smyrna Beach (Florida) has two of them.
Performance is identical to a 180 HP C172 SP up to 9000', above that altitude it is actually better because of the turbo normalizing of the Thielert engine.
http://epicaviation.com/Flight-training/img-portrait-N57FH.jpg


And no, I don't work for them..just know them.
Can't seem to find prices on their website though, but they are very reasonable.

[englishal]

Fly across the high deserts of the SW at the crack of dawn, and aim to be on the ground by lunch time. this way you'll miss the turbulence and the thunderheads. If thunderheads are forecast for the desert areas, these can be real monsters.

The nice thing about the USA is PPR is not required, so you can set out on a 3 hour X/C and if you decide after 1½ hours you're knackered / bored / hungry / need a piss, look on the chart and just divert....no drama.

Make sure you have GPS, or use VORs.

Fill up with fuel at every stop ;)

[Julian]

Anon,

You said you havent yet got the FAA IR, have you thought sbout combining a cross trip with the IR training? There are a few places that I have seen advertise this and looks a much more interesting way to get another rating!

J.

[Anonystude]

Thanks for the advice everyone, lots of useful gen that we'll bear in mind. Thankfully, I've already got a copy of the FAR/AIM and have got my head stuck in it; makes for better reading than University-type work, anyway.

As for the FAA IR, I'm not likely to use it once I'm back in the UK; whilst it'd be a nice rating to have, for the extra inconvenience of requiring TSA clearance and an M-1 visa, it's not really worth it, IMO.

Anyone else with useful snippets, however small? :)

[Cusco]

Thanks for the advice everyone,
Anyone else with useful snippets, however small? :)
Do not leave the ground without Renter's Insurance, unless you have a bottomless bank balance.
Safe flying,
Cusco

[Julian]

Anon,

Dont forget that whilst you may not use the FAA IR once you get home it does entitle you to add the IMC rating to your JAA licence once you get home for free - except for the CAA fee(£64?)

J.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Cirrus have a good website with info on flying up to Alaska if you think you might head that way.
Is is still the case that to fly in Alaska you must have a gun on board the aircraft but to fly across BC to get to Alaska you must not have a gun on board, which makes things slightly tricky?

[Dorfer]

Sounds like a really cool trip. Couple of notes: Take a set of IFR low charts with ya and talk to the Center if ya need to. Stay away from the large terminal areas (DFW, LAX, ATL, ORD etc, etc) things there can get pretty hactic a times and they just dont wanna hear from ya. STAY AWAY FROM THUNDERSTORMS !!!! If ya must, turn around and LAND. These things here in the U.S. will KILL you.

Do some searching on the web for museums along your route. The Navy museum is in Penscola Fl. Airforce is in Dayton Ohio and of course the Smithsonian in Wash DC. (I live near DC and wood be happy to show ya around) send me a pm. Tis a heady thing to be in the presence of the Wright Flier. There are far to many many aviation nooks to explore. Yipslanti (YIP) Mich is where Ford constructed the B-24's and the assembly building is still there. The assembly building for the Spruce Goose is still there in Culver City Cal. (near LA). Theres just tooooooooooooooooo much to do.

[Anonystude]

Dont forget that whilst you may not use the FAA IR once you get home it does entitle you to add the IMC rating to your JAA licence once you get home for free - except for the CAA fee(£64?)

Cheers mate, but: "We're both JAR PPL's (or will be), me with the best part of 250hrs and an IMC" ;)

Dorfer: cheers for the offer -- went to the Smithsonian on the Mall a few years back, not been to the new build near Dulles yet, so might well try and fit that in somewhere.

Cusco: renters insurance? Can you enlighten me a bit, not quite sure what you mean by that?

[Cusco]

Cusco: renters insurance? Can you enlighten me a bit, not quite sure what you mean by that?
Best analogy I can think of is Collision Waiver Insurance when you rent a car in USA (or anywhere else for that matter)
I.e. if you rent a car and have a dink, if you have collision waiver insurance any insurance excesses are covered and you don't have to foot the bill.
No CDW means if you dink your hire car you have to pay any excesses.

Now, for aviation , multiply this by a big factor: You dink your aeroplane , the operator's insurance picks up the tab, but any excesses you have to pay.

I wrote off a very nice rented Archer in California in May this year but survived: For my $220.00 renters insurance (CDW in automobile speak) my insurance company forked out $5,000.00 which if I had not had Renter's insurance I would have had to pay.

Money well spent in my book:

In short depends how confident you are and how big your bank balance is:
I repeat: don't leave the ground without Renter's insurance.

Safe flying

Cusco:bored:

Edited to add that renter's insurance also covers third party claims (which fortunately I didn't need) up to serious six figure sums (ie damage to other peeps etc).
Now you may think this could never happen to you but if, as I infer from your posting, I and many other tax payers are subsidising you via your student loan: (well you said it, not me), you do not have a bottomless pit of emergency funds, then you should give consideration to getting renter's insurance: my premium of $220.00 was the minimum: speak to your FBO and see how much cover you need to bridge the gap.

[J.A.F.O.]

Just an idea - read Flight of Passage by Kern (I think) Buck - two kids flew across the states in a Cub in the early sixties. Then follow the route and see what's changed.

You are very lucky, enjoy it.

[englishal]

Stay away from the large terminal areas (DFW, LAX, ATL, ORD etc, etc) things there can get pretty hactic a times and they just dont wanna hear from ya
I wouldn't even worry about that. If I were you I'd fly into a few of them just to get it in the logbook ;)

While you're at it, you may as well fly into Heathrow (TE17) in Texas :)

[SD.]

I did the trip 2 years ago from San Diego to Grand Bahamas and back again.

Some places to visit along the route;

New Orleans, I didn't get to New Orleans but I've been told its a nice place to go, especially Mardi Gras :D

Austin , Texas - Nice city

Tuscon, Az - The aircraft grave yard is worth a visit.

Vegas and the Grand Canyon - Would be high on my list of places to visit if I was you.


All along the Gulf coast and down to the keys in Fl.


As others have said, use airnav.com to assist planning and importantly................ have a good one :ok:

[Keef]

Agree with pretty much all that's written above. Plan well ahead for your FSDO visit, and get all the paperwork done in plenty of time.

Be very circumspect anywhere around US officialdom, especially entering the USA at the International airport. US bureaucrats (immigration, customs, police, etc) seem to have very little sense of humour, and will turn very aggressive with very little provocation. They can turn you round and send you straight back home if they decide they don't like you. Smile, be polite, and don't joke. You may, of course, meet one of the friendly ones (I have).

Renter's Insurance is essential. A night rating is handy if you're likely to want to fly in the dark - which you may if you do some long legs.

Don't try to plan a whole week's flying in one block. Weather might upset that, and you may find a place you like so much you want to stay a day or two. Finding a hotel room is rarely difficult, apart from at Grand Canyon.

Sedona is a must! If you can, stay overnight in the lodge at the top - Friday nights and weekends are difficult, but midweek you might get a room without booking ahead. The food in the restaurant by the runway is excellent (especially on crab night).

It would be sad not to visit the Grand Canyon, but get the special chart and study it first - there is a lot of "no fly" airspace. Flying across the canyon is a stunning experience. Overnighting there can be a challenge to find a room, unless you're very lucky or book months in advance. Fly to one of the airfields nearby and you should have no trouble finding a room.

If you plan to fly up in the mountainous areas, get a checkout first, and some tuition. With a UK PPL, you don't learn how to take off at airfields around 7000 feet amsl! You must lean for takeoff, and you'll still be amazed at how long a ground run you need. I have a deep affection for Big Bear City.

The opposite is Death Valley - can you continue the approach and landing without a twitch as the altimeter goes below zero feet AMSL? Overnight stays there aren't cheap, but I found the rattlesnake canapes in the restaurant "different".

I'm not so sure about the long stretches - you can go a very long way with nothing in the way of scenery underneath. Some of it is breathtaking, of course, but I don't know that I'd want to go from Florida to California and back. I think I'd rather start and end in California, and venture no further east than Colorado. A bit of mountain training, and you could visit those stunning airfields in the Rockies.

The IR is handy, but I don't think I'd go through the palaver of paperwork you need to do now. Just allow that you may be "weathered in", rather than "have to" fly IFR. I did my FAA IR before all the bureaucracy, and it's a great thing to have, if you have time for it.

For several years (long ago), I wanted to fly from Detriot to Niagara Falls. I probably booked the aircraft six or seven times over a period of some months. I never made it - because there was always "fahg" somewhere along the way. Now that I have the IR and could go anyway, there's so much airspace restriction it's not worth it.

[slim_slag]

I think I'd rather start and end in California, and venture no further east than Colorado. A bit of mountain training, and you could visit those stunning airfields in the RockiesYeh, I'd agree with this. The midwest is mind numbing boring. Further east and you get too many days with marginal VFR (3-5 visibility) and that is no fun. Do a loop roughly from CA-NM-CO-MT-WA-CA.

[slim_slag]

Re your IMC, as I believe it gives night privileges on your CAA licence then you should get night privileges on your FAA certificate. The FAA guidelines do not appear clear on whether a CAA IMC gives night privileges so maybe you should take some evidence that it does and show it to the FSDO inspector.

[drauk]

I did a trip from Wisconsin to the west coast, down the coast and back to Wisconsin, as one long lesson to get an FAA IR. It was in February and the mid west was VERY cold: minus 15C on the ground.

As such quite a bit of my trip isn't really that relevant to what you're doing, but I would recommend (mostly echos of what has been said): Sedona, Catalina Island, Crater Lake in Oregon, flying over San Francisco bay, statying at the hotel in Santa Maria where you can taxi up to the door, Mount Rushmore, Grand Canyon, landing at Telluride (we did it partial panel in IMC - a good experience that it can be done).

I would fly in to some of the big airports en-route because it's fun.

I know you're on a budget but if you can rent an aeroplane with an autopilot I think it would make life much better, though with two pilots on board it might not be so bad. If the aircraft doesn't have a GPS I'd buy or borrow a decent handheld one.

Also, I'd echo what Keef said. I'd be tempted to start and end in California - most of the good stuff is out that way.

For quick "how long will it take" planning you can use http://fly.dsc.net but once you're getting more serious I'd recommend http://www.aeroplanner.com where you can plan your route on current sectional charts with all TFR's in place.

[IO540]

The UK IMCR is not connected to night privileges. One can do it with or without a night qualification on one's PPL.

I think a JAA IR gives an automatic night privilege, including a non-expiring night passenger carrying currency.

[slim_slag]

Yes, I got that wrong. So ignore my previous IMC post.

[Flik Roll]

AnonySTUde,
If you fancy cheap accom, make sure you land at Fullerton Airport (CA) for a night stop and I'm sure I can put you up at my house :}

[Tinstaafl]

Another good website for planning is www.fltplan.com. They're who the mob I work for use. We're a Part 135 charter company.

conditions:

You have to register but that's free.

Can plan flights & stores a/c rego, pilot names, print flight plans etc. The printed plan usefully has basic ATC freqs. for Dep & Arr. aerodromes + FBO ph & freqs.

Access weather, TFR info, fuel prices etc

Can submit *IFR* flight plans to ATS *but* you need to go through a process to authorise them to submit on your behalf. Easiest if you already have an FAA 'duats' account (also free).

[Fournicator]

Flik:

Clever, like what you did there.....

[Flik Roll]

Fournicator.. See PMs.

Blonde and clever, my god whatever next? World domination? :}

[englishal]

If you fancy cheap accom, make sure you land at Fullerton Airport (CA) for a night stop and I'm sure I can put you up at my house
Do NOT forget to request BWALT.....

Doh, flash backs from my IR, sorry :O

I second or third what everyone says about staying in the West. I've been flying in the Western USA numerous times and often had these great intentions of going across the country. The trouble is there is SO much to do an see around California, Arizona and Nevada. The landscape is fantastic, places like Sedona are incredible if you are used to flying in the UK. Last time I was there we flew through a canyon and popped out ready to join downwing. Fantastic.....Not far from Sedona is Meteor Crater (Winslow I think) and then you have a whole load of ancient extinct volcanoes on the way to Flagstaff which are pretty cool from the air.

A nice trip we did last year was Long Beach - Apple Valley for breakfast - Needles for a piss stop - Sedona (mental note: take a plane with a heater that works or don't wear shorts and T shirt!)- Laughlin for a night of gambling and free beer - Big Bear for some snowball fights (mental note: snow + shorts and T shirts don't go well) - Chino (to see the war birds) - Long Beach.

Found another cool airport in California earlier this year - Agua Dulce - in the hills near Palmdale. Great place, completely uncontrolled and they have an outdoor swimming pool at the airport. You just rock up and take a dip!

I could go on as I love the flying there, and in 6 weeks time I'll be back for some more of it......

Cheers

[limey lad]

I would agree with just about everything mentioned about renters insurance, etc. Lots of sound advice given. As for places to visit, a couple of people have mentioned Sedona - absolutely yes, it is a must. I would also add Santa Fe, New Mexico and Monterrey, California. Be cautious crossing the Rockies - read up on routings and watch the weather very very closely. Travelling in June/July, you will be in prime time for the thunderstorms that develop in the midwest. These are not like anything you will have seen in Europe - you can get lines stretching from New York State all the way to Texas. They develop fast, especially in late afternoons, and can fire up very quickly. Accomodations - sign up for membership in the various hotel/motel chains frequent guest award cards - they are free and can get you a free night stay after a few nights stay. (A lot of the hotel chains operate a number of brands of hotels). Many motels/hotels have vans "limousines" that can pick you up / drop you off at airfields....a lot cheaper than taxis. Make sure you have current charts - all the FBO's sell them. Join AOPA -Aircraft Onwers and Pilots Association - they have some useful booklets as well as an annual airfield guide that is for the most part fairly accurate. Includes names of FBO's, hotels/restaurants nearby, etc.

[JAM39]

Between December and January, wife & I flew San Diego (CA) - Marana (AZ) - Las Cruces (NM) - Pecos (TX) - San Antonio (TX), and stayed a couple of days there over New Year.

Then headed back to San Diego via: Cavern City/Carslbad (NM) - Roswell (NM) - Deming (NM) - Sierra Vista (AZ), visiting Tombstone for a coupla days. Then on to Lake Havasu City (AZ) - Las Vegas (NV), at McCarran itself - and Palm Springs (CA).

The whole trip took about 12 days, start to finish. We flew in an Arrow.

I've flown in the U.S. before, so it wasn't all new to me; but it's an experience that's very hard to beat.

So... go for it, and have great -- and safe -- fun.

Cheers.