Flying across America -- tips, advice and the like...
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Flying across America -- tips, advice and the like...
Myself and a good friend of mine graduate from university this summer, and as such we've decided to take the chance of a lifetime and fly across the US in a light single. We're both JAR PPL's (or will be), me with the best part of 250hrs and an IMC, mate with around 60.
At the moment, I (as designated faff bitch) am contemplating starting in Florida, flying west to the Californian coast, then back across the Midwest. We've got a reasonable budget (thank you, Student Loan Company) that would probably stretch to that kind of route (or similar -- think around 50-70 hours).
As such, I was wondering if the collective knowledge of PPRuNe might throw up any advice on the following:
a) Places to hire aircraft -- I notice Ormond Beach are particularly cheap*, compared to most other places in Florida: as neither of us will be FAA IR'd up, we're not worried about having a full IFR setup (plus it's summer, in FAA land and therefore the weather will be mandatory CAVOK VFR the whole time, no?
). Having said that, as price is likely to be a driving factor, anyone got any recommendations?
b) Places to see -- this is a once in a lifetime trip, don't want to miss anything
c) Converting licence -- I'd imagine we'll both get an FAA PPL on the basis of our JAA ones, purely to avoid TSA/M-1 visa faff. Is it worth getting a JAA night tick-in-box before going?
d) Anything we might've missed? Pitfalls? Traps?
Thanks for any advice you might be able to give us. I'm sorry if I've made you all jealous, now...
* and yes, I've seen the massive thread on OBA, and yes, I'm aware of its reputation...
At the moment, I (as designated faff bitch) am contemplating starting in Florida, flying west to the Californian coast, then back across the Midwest. We've got a reasonable budget (thank you, Student Loan Company) that would probably stretch to that kind of route (or similar -- think around 50-70 hours).
As such, I was wondering if the collective knowledge of PPRuNe might throw up any advice on the following:
a) Places to hire aircraft -- I notice Ormond Beach are particularly cheap*, compared to most other places in Florida: as neither of us will be FAA IR'd up, we're not worried about having a full IFR setup (plus it's summer, in FAA land and therefore the weather will be mandatory CAVOK VFR the whole time, no?
). Having said that, as price is likely to be a driving factor, anyone got any recommendations?b) Places to see -- this is a once in a lifetime trip, don't want to miss anything
c) Converting licence -- I'd imagine we'll both get an FAA PPL on the basis of our JAA ones, purely to avoid TSA/M-1 visa faff. Is it worth getting a JAA night tick-in-box before going?
d) Anything we might've missed? Pitfalls? Traps?
Thanks for any advice you might be able to give us. I'm sorry if I've made you all jealous, now...
* and yes, I've seen the massive thread on OBA, and yes, I'm aware of its reputation...
Last edited by Anonystude; 27th Sep 2006 at 21:15. Reason: spelling, and a few minor additions...
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Just a little note to add to the above, The FAA do state 45-90 days for them to complete the application and I may be an expection but I got mine in less than 3 weeks, admittely a few polite emails to the CAA and FAA but it can be done pretty quickly. I guess this depends on the work load they have but as I said I think it was an expection rather than the rule...
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sounds like an amazing trip, have fun, top tip, as you have time to plan, why not contact the flying mags, and see if they would buy your story, I doubt the fee would cover much of your ex's, but, if your on a tight budget, worth thinking about, Good Luck
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What a fantastic sounding trip.
You might find www.airnav.com useful for airport info.
EAA chapters abound all over North America and members are always pleased to see folks. Aim for fly-ins and pancake breakfasts, stopping off, of course at the biggest of them all - AirVenture (www.airventure.org) at the end of July. Avoid larger airports with handling fees, many smaller airports have courtesy cars and Mom & Pop type restaurants within easy reach.
Cirrus have a good website with info on flying up to Alaska if you think you might head that way. Infact, rather than doing east to west, which is pretty flat for 2/3 of the trip, how about doing south to north, all the way up the Rockies to Alaska and back. Now that would be cool
Whatever you choose to do, you will find that North America is a phenominal place to fly - the variety of airports, the neat people and planes you get to meet, the ease of access to everything and the breathtaking scenery.
Blimey, I sound like a holiday brochure....
Have a great trip.
You might find www.airnav.com useful for airport info.
EAA chapters abound all over North America and members are always pleased to see folks. Aim for fly-ins and pancake breakfasts, stopping off, of course at the biggest of them all - AirVenture (www.airventure.org) at the end of July. Avoid larger airports with handling fees, many smaller airports have courtesy cars and Mom & Pop type restaurants within easy reach.
Cirrus have a good website with info on flying up to Alaska if you think you might head that way. Infact, rather than doing east to west, which is pretty flat for 2/3 of the trip, how about doing south to north, all the way up the Rockies to Alaska and back. Now that would be cool
Whatever you choose to do, you will find that North America is a phenominal place to fly - the variety of airports, the neat people and planes you get to meet, the ease of access to everything and the breathtaking scenery.
Blimey, I sound like a holiday brochure....
Have a great trip.
Last edited by fernytickles; 1st Oct 2006 at 17:52.
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fernytickles gives good advice.
Just off the top of my head, will have missed stuff.
1) Make sure the place you rent the plane from will let you go on a long trip. Try and rent dry, will save you a fortune.
2) Add renter's insurance to the cost
3) Get all the WACs for now and daydream about what you might do. When you are on the trip just decide the night before where to go next. Or make it up as you go along, just don't run out of fuel and keep an eye on the weather.
4) On the WACs you will see a huge mountain range (Rockies). Don't expect to get over this in a rental single around the middle going east-west-east, you should probably plan to go north of it one way and south of it the other. If you do want to go straight across somewhere around Denver then get some mountain flying training before and don't get complacent.
5) Don't assume the weather will be good, you will hit nasty weather at some time. US weather is different to that in Europe. Just monitor weather.com and see how weather crosses the States. weather.com is very useful to see the big picture. Aviation weather is freely available and all over the web, find out how to use it.
6) Get a duats login and make sure you can work the web site.
7) get to know airnav.com
8) I'd get the night training added to your certifiate, could be part of the checkout at the originating FBO and if done correctly will teach you about planning a short cross country and give a taste of ATC services. Might come in useful and no big deal.
9) Summer in the West is very hot and can be windy, so you will discover what real turbulence is.
10) Read up on the services available from FSS and ATC and make sure you use them.
It will be a great experience. I wouldn't call it a 'trip of a lifetime' as you can easily just do it again
Just off the top of my head, will have missed stuff.
1) Make sure the place you rent the plane from will let you go on a long trip. Try and rent dry, will save you a fortune.
2) Add renter's insurance to the cost
3) Get all the WACs for now and daydream about what you might do. When you are on the trip just decide the night before where to go next. Or make it up as you go along, just don't run out of fuel and keep an eye on the weather.
4) On the WACs you will see a huge mountain range (Rockies). Don't expect to get over this in a rental single around the middle going east-west-east, you should probably plan to go north of it one way and south of it the other. If you do want to go straight across somewhere around Denver then get some mountain flying training before and don't get complacent.
5) Don't assume the weather will be good, you will hit nasty weather at some time. US weather is different to that in Europe. Just monitor weather.com and see how weather crosses the States. weather.com is very useful to see the big picture. Aviation weather is freely available and all over the web, find out how to use it.
6) Get a duats login and make sure you can work the web site.
7) get to know airnav.com
8) I'd get the night training added to your certifiate, could be part of the checkout at the originating FBO and if done correctly will teach you about planning a short cross country and give a taste of ATC services. Might come in useful and no big deal.
9) Summer in the West is very hot and can be windy, so you will discover what real turbulence is.
10) Read up on the services available from FSS and ATC and make sure you use them.
It will be a great experience. I wouldn't call it a 'trip of a lifetime' as you can easily just do it again
Get a night rating, you will need it.
Some good websites to use during your trip;
Flight planning and a lot of other info
www.landings.com top right H corner for flightplanning.
http://adds.aviationweather.gov/progs/
A lot of weather info here
www.airnav.com
Especially:
http://www.airnav.com/fuel/
Summertime is Tornado time in the MidWest.
You will get yourself stuck because of weather, good news is that it usually doesn't last long.
Even though you are not legal to fly with your IMC rating, get a plane which is IFR certified and current.
It may save your life some day if you get in a pickle.
Some good websites to use during your trip;
Flight planning and a lot of other info
www.landings.com top right H corner for flightplanning.
http://adds.aviationweather.gov/progs/
A lot of weather info here
www.airnav.com
Especially:
http://www.airnav.com/fuel/
Summertime is Tornado time in the MidWest.
You will get yourself stuck because of weather, good news is that it usually doesn't last long.
Even though you are not legal to fly with your IMC rating, get a plane which is IFR certified and current.
It may save your life some day if you get in a pickle.
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Some good advice above.
I did Arizona - Florida and back last month.
I chose a northerly routing outbound, Santa Fe - Oklahoma City (Norman) - Atlanta and the gulf coast inbound Pennsacola - Galveston - Carlsbad.
On the northern route Santa Fe is neat if you are an arts fan. Nicest place enroute was Rock Springs. Oklahoma Norman is a nice town with a good museum and Atlanta is well, Atlanta. (I went to Fulton Co. - nice FBO but $20 per night).
The gulf coast beaches are a must. The water is bath temperature and the sand is clean. I stopped in Galveston which is much less worse than you might think. Be sure to get a beach facing hotel - I used the BW which is right across the highway. Carlsbad cavern is astonishing, as is the evening bat flight. Be sure to stay over to witness this.
You might choose to route along the border and Deming NM is convenient with hotels as is Yuma further west. You can do all of this at fairly low level but you will soon be climbing to 10,000' en route anyway to escape the heat.
The gulf coast route involves a fair bit of sea shore and inlets and you might want to consider wearing lfejackets..
Thunderstorms are an inevitable factor on this type of trip and nothing beats the 'fly early' (eg 6am) advice. Vis may be very poor in places and those IMC skills won't be wasted!
I was solo in a 172. 2 up and you will be struggling at some of the high altitudes and temps. It's often said that 'sea level' aeroplanes are set up differently and leaning may not be part of the essential actions in Florida, so do be sure that you get instruction in lean for takeoff operation. 180Hp is a lot better than 160.
Watch out for variable winds on hot midday takeoffs, since light to variable may mean a tailwind on the runway by the time you get there and the difference between a comfortable takeoff and a white knuckle ride. Stay on the ground until you are sure of flying speed, ie don't rotate early, and shallow the climb until the speed is 70.
Actually flying these routes is a dream, with co-operative ATC (No concept of "remain clear of controlled airspace") wonderful FSS briefing and accurate and accessible forcasts.
A final thought: Don't be tempted to "push on". A 4Hr leg may help make up some lost time elsewhere but on the wrong day it's a long time in a single. That's when silly things happen, like forgetting which FBO you are going to after finally finding the airport and landing! It's surprising how tired you can be.
Good luck!
I did Arizona - Florida and back last month.
I chose a northerly routing outbound, Santa Fe - Oklahoma City (Norman) - Atlanta and the gulf coast inbound Pennsacola - Galveston - Carlsbad.
On the northern route Santa Fe is neat if you are an arts fan. Nicest place enroute was Rock Springs. Oklahoma Norman is a nice town with a good museum and Atlanta is well, Atlanta. (I went to Fulton Co. - nice FBO but $20 per night).
The gulf coast beaches are a must. The water is bath temperature and the sand is clean. I stopped in Galveston which is much less worse than you might think. Be sure to get a beach facing hotel - I used the BW which is right across the highway. Carlsbad cavern is astonishing, as is the evening bat flight. Be sure to stay over to witness this.
You might choose to route along the border and Deming NM is convenient with hotels as is Yuma further west. You can do all of this at fairly low level but you will soon be climbing to 10,000' en route anyway to escape the heat.
The gulf coast route involves a fair bit of sea shore and inlets and you might want to consider wearing lfejackets..
Thunderstorms are an inevitable factor on this type of trip and nothing beats the 'fly early' (eg 6am) advice. Vis may be very poor in places and those IMC skills won't be wasted!
I was solo in a 172. 2 up and you will be struggling at some of the high altitudes and temps. It's often said that 'sea level' aeroplanes are set up differently and leaning may not be part of the essential actions in Florida, so do be sure that you get instruction in lean for takeoff operation. 180Hp is a lot better than 160.
Watch out for variable winds on hot midday takeoffs, since light to variable may mean a tailwind on the runway by the time you get there and the difference between a comfortable takeoff and a white knuckle ride. Stay on the ground until you are sure of flying speed, ie don't rotate early, and shallow the climb until the speed is 70.
Actually flying these routes is a dream, with co-operative ATC (No concept of "remain clear of controlled airspace") wonderful FSS briefing and accurate and accessible forcasts.
A final thought: Don't be tempted to "push on". A 4Hr leg may help make up some lost time elsewhere but on the wrong day it's a long time in a single. That's when silly things happen, like forgetting which FBO you are going to after finally finding the airport and landing! It's surprising how tired you can be.
Good luck!
As far as fuel consumption is concerned, you will be flying an unfamiliar airplane with fuel gauges of unknown accuracy.
This is what I used to do for looooong trips....;
Make the first leg a 2 hr leg, note your altitude ,OAT and throttle & mixture settings,
Top off the fuel and calculate fuel burn/hr.
Make the 2nd leg a 3hr leg, note the same parameters, calculate fuel burn.
Make the 3rd leg a 3hr leg, same as above, you should now have a reliable fuel burn figure for that particular airplane.
Add .5 gallons/hr just to have a safety margin, eg 7.8 iso 7.3/hr.
I used to have a kitchen timer, engine start have it count down (in my case) from 4.0 hrs, when that timer reaches zero you better be taxiing on the ramp at your destination.
Using this method I have safely flown 4hr legs in a regular 1978 C172 and 5 hr legs in an equally ancient Pa-28.
When you plan your flights mark airports 0.5 hrs and 1hr before and after your destination, in case winds aloft go all over the place.
Take life vests and maybe even a raft, if weather forces you offshore you can easily get out of glide range.
Score yourself a reliable little GPS from ebay as back up in case your nav goes t***-up.
Make sure the plane has the required 100 hr and annual inspection before you leave.
Buy yourself one of these $2 Carbon monoxide detectors and check if the heater works correctly.
Some rental places will actually disconnect it to save on MX.
Make a written agreement with the owner/flightschool concerning unscheduled maintenance enroute, eg who pays for the starter/tires etc etc.
This is what I used to do for looooong trips....;
Make the first leg a 2 hr leg, note your altitude ,OAT and throttle & mixture settings,
Top off the fuel and calculate fuel burn/hr.
Make the 2nd leg a 3hr leg, note the same parameters, calculate fuel burn.
Make the 3rd leg a 3hr leg, same as above, you should now have a reliable fuel burn figure for that particular airplane.
Add .5 gallons/hr just to have a safety margin, eg 7.8 iso 7.3/hr.
I used to have a kitchen timer, engine start have it count down (in my case) from 4.0 hrs, when that timer reaches zero you better be taxiing on the ramp at your destination.
Using this method I have safely flown 4hr legs in a regular 1978 C172 and 5 hr legs in an equally ancient Pa-28.
When you plan your flights mark airports 0.5 hrs and 1hr before and after your destination, in case winds aloft go all over the place.
Take life vests and maybe even a raft, if weather forces you offshore you can easily get out of glide range.
Score yourself a reliable little GPS from ebay as back up in case your nav goes t***-up.
Make sure the plane has the required 100 hr and annual inspection before you leave.
Buy yourself one of these $2 Carbon monoxide detectors and check if the heater works correctly.
Some rental places will actually disconnect it to save on MX.
Make a written agreement with the owner/flightschool concerning unscheduled maintenance enroute, eg who pays for the starter/tires etc etc.
Have you considered a Diesel( Jet A) equipped Cessna 172SP?
Great avionics and a ridiculous 10 hr endurance.
Epic Aviation in New Smyrna Beach (Florida) has two of them.
Performance is identical to a 180 HP C172 SP up to 9000', above that altitude it is actually better because of the turbo normalizing of the Thielert engine.
And no, I don't work for them..just know them.
Can't seem to find prices on their website though, but they are very reasonable.
Great avionics and a ridiculous 10 hr endurance.
Epic Aviation in New Smyrna Beach (Florida) has two of them.
Performance is identical to a 180 HP C172 SP up to 9000', above that altitude it is actually better because of the turbo normalizing of the Thielert engine.
And no, I don't work for them..just know them.
Can't seem to find prices on their website though, but they are very reasonable.
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Fly across the high deserts of the SW at the crack of dawn, and aim to be on the ground by lunch time. this way you'll miss the turbulence and the thunderheads. If thunderheads are forecast for the desert areas, these can be real monsters.
The nice thing about the USA is PPR is not required, so you can set out on a 3 hour X/C and if you decide after 1½ hours you're knackered / bored / hungry / need a piss, look on the chart and just divert....no drama.
Make sure you have GPS, or use VORs.
Fill up with fuel at every stop
The nice thing about the USA is PPR is not required, so you can set out on a 3 hour X/C and if you decide after 1½ hours you're knackered / bored / hungry / need a piss, look on the chart and just divert....no drama.
Make sure you have GPS, or use VORs.
Fill up with fuel at every stop
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Anon,
You said you havent yet got the FAA IR, have you thought sbout combining a cross trip with the IR training? There are a few places that I have seen advertise this and looks a much more interesting way to get another rating!
J.
You said you havent yet got the FAA IR, have you thought sbout combining a cross trip with the IR training? There are a few places that I have seen advertise this and looks a much more interesting way to get another rating!
J.
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Thanks for the advice everyone, lots of useful gen that we'll bear in mind. Thankfully, I've already got a copy of the FAR/AIM and have got my head stuck in it; makes for better reading than University-type work, anyway.
As for the FAA IR, I'm not likely to use it once I'm back in the UK; whilst it'd be a nice rating to have, for the extra inconvenience of requiring TSA clearance and an M-1 visa, it's not really worth it, IMO.
Anyone else with useful snippets, however small?
As for the FAA IR, I'm not likely to use it once I'm back in the UK; whilst it'd be a nice rating to have, for the extra inconvenience of requiring TSA clearance and an M-1 visa, it's not really worth it, IMO.
Anyone else with useful snippets, however small?
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Anon,
Dont forget that whilst you may not use the FAA IR once you get home it does entitle you to add the IMC rating to your JAA licence once you get home for free - except for the CAA fee(£64?)
J.
Dont forget that whilst you may not use the FAA IR once you get home it does entitle you to add the IMC rating to your JAA licence once you get home for free - except for the CAA fee(£64?)
J.
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Is is still the case that to fly in Alaska you must have a gun on board the aircraft but to fly across BC to get to Alaska you must not have a gun on board, which makes things slightly tricky?
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Sounds like a really cool trip. Couple of notes: Take a set of IFR low charts with ya and talk to the Center if ya need to. Stay away from the large terminal areas (DFW, LAX, ATL, ORD etc, etc) things there can get pretty hactic a times and they just dont wanna hear from ya. STAY AWAY FROM THUNDERSTORMS !!!! If ya must, turn around and LAND. These things here in the U.S. will KILL you.
Do some searching on the web for museums along your route. The Navy museum is in Penscola Fl. Airforce is in Dayton Ohio and of course the Smithsonian in Wash DC. (I live near DC and wood be happy to show ya around) send me a pm. Tis a heady thing to be in the presence of the Wright Flier. There are far to many many aviation nooks to explore. Yipslanti (YIP) Mich is where Ford constructed the B-24's and the assembly building is still there. The assembly building for the Spruce Goose is still there in Culver City Cal. (near LA). Theres just tooooooooooooooooo much to do.
Do some searching on the web for museums along your route. The Navy museum is in Penscola Fl. Airforce is in Dayton Ohio and of course the Smithsonian in Wash DC. (I live near DC and wood be happy to show ya around) send me a pm. Tis a heady thing to be in the presence of the Wright Flier. There are far to many many aviation nooks to explore. Yipslanti (YIP) Mich is where Ford constructed the B-24's and the assembly building is still there. The assembly building for the Spruce Goose is still there in Culver City Cal. (near LA). Theres just tooooooooooooooooo much to do.
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Dorfer: cheers for the offer -- went to the Smithsonian on the Mall a few years back, not been to the new build near Dulles yet, so might well try and fit that in somewhere.
Cusco: renters insurance? Can you enlighten me a bit, not quite sure what you mean by that?
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I.e. if you rent a car and have a dink, if you have collision waiver insurance any insurance excesses are covered and you don't have to foot the bill.
No CDW means if you dink your hire car you have to pay any excesses.
Now, for aviation , multiply this by a big factor: You dink your aeroplane , the operator's insurance picks up the tab, but any excesses you have to pay.
I wrote off a very nice rented Archer in California in May this year but survived: For my $220.00 renters insurance (CDW in automobile speak) my insurance company forked out $5,000.00 which if I had not had Renter's insurance I would have had to pay.
Money well spent in my book:
In short depends how confident you are and how big your bank balance is:
I repeat: don't leave the ground without Renter's insurance.
Safe flying
Cusco
Edited to add that renter's insurance also covers third party claims (which fortunately I didn't need) up to serious six figure sums (ie damage to other peeps etc).
Now you may think this could never happen to you but if, as I infer from your posting, I and many other tax payers are subsidising you via your student loan: (well you said it, not me), you do not have a bottomless pit of emergency funds, then you should give consideration to getting renter's insurance: my premium of $220.00 was the minimum: speak to your FBO and see how much cover you need to bridge the gap.
Last edited by Cusco; 1st Oct 2006 at 01:34.