Booking-out procedure

[P1 Forever]

Hi everyone,

Can anyone direct me to a website or other were it explains the booking-out procedure and when to use it. I have tried a search on here and the caa but no luck.

Also, do you book-out at every airport whether ATC, FIS or A/G and if you have a flight plan?

Why is booking-out necessary or is it not that important?

Thanks for your help guys!

[foxmoth]

Booking out procedure varies at different airfields and at some can be done over the R/T, other places require you to fill in some sort of sheet or form in ATC or another office, most places a Flight Plan will cover this and booking out should not be required if you have filed one. I do not think there is a site that tells you about what procedures exist at different fields, best just to ask at the time.

[scooter boy]

Booking in/out: A charming anachronism which is intended to allow the search and rescue services to have a general idea of where to start looking if you happen to disappear en route.
I do it twice a day most of the year - usually by phone but occasionally on the radio.
If you have filed a flight plan then you generally needn't do it (worth a call to check ATC have your flight plan though as sometimes it gets misfiled).
Generally you need to state:

ETD
Destination
Number on Board
Estimated time en route
Fuel endurance

[pistongone]

I think it is about time the CAA issued a standardised document for booking in/out. A friend of mine has a private strip and had a visit from Customs and they wanted to see his booking in/out sheet. He asked them politely to show him a copy of this sheet and they said they didnt have one! The following logical question elicited a sarcastic reply, namely that he should just make one up! You can imagine where this particular conversation whent. Suffice to say if the Customs require you to have a booking in/out sheet then you would expect the CAA to supply one? A simmilar situation is the tech log! Have you noticed how every one has a different format and the time logged varries from brakes on/off, airborn, block, tacho, hobbs etc. I realise the difference is usually the way the money is charged. But likewise you would have thought such an important and legal document would have a standardised format.

[bookworm]

The relevant legislation is Rule 20(2).
Rule 20(2) The commander of an aircraft arriving at or departing from an aerodrome in the United Kingdom shall take all reasonable steps to ensure upon landing or prior to departure, as the case may be, that notice of that event is given to the person in charge of the aerodrome, or to the air traffic control unit or aerodrome flight information service unit at the aerodrome.
Thus to satisfy the legislation, booking out by telephone, fax, or R/T is acceptable. No particular details are specified, and the list is purely conventional for S&R puposes.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no legal requirement for the owner/operator of an unlicensed aerodrome to record movements or retain such a record.

[Spitoon]

To the best of my knowledge, there is no legal requirement for the owner/operator of an unlicensed aerodrome to record movements or retain such a record.ANO Article 155 says that an ‘Aerodrome’ means any area of land or water designed, equipped, set apart or commonly used for affording facilities for the landing and departure of aircraft and includes any area or space, whether on the ground, on the roof of a building or elsewhere, which is designed, equipped or set apart for affording facilities for the landing and departure of aircraft capable of descending or climbing vertically, but shall not include any area the use of which for affording facilities for the landing and departure of aircraft has been abandoned and has not been resumed. So, I suspect, the obligation to book out exists at unlicenced aerodromes too - even if you don't call it an aerodrome!

[fireflybob]

Spitoon, with respect, I think you have missed Bookworm's point!

Yes, all flights should be "booked out" whether or not the aerodrome is licensed or not BUT, as far as we can ascertain, there is no LEGAL requirement for airfields to keep written records of such "bookings out", notwithstandings flights which are subject to rules under the Prevention of Terrorism Act and/or flights departing or arriving airfields from outside the UK.

It is obviously common sense to book out even for a local flight, in the event of becoming overdue. Filing a flight plan constitutes bookings out but not vice versa.

Many airfields require one to book out with ATC on the phone prior to departure and if you do not you will not be allowed to taxi until you have!

From an instructional point of view, I encourage and demonstrate to my students to book out with the person in charge of the airfield and NOT on RT as this creates a lot of unecessary RT chat and extra workload for the student and is, hopefully, creating a good habit for when he is operating as a licensed pilot.

[On-MarkBob]

Anyone remember Michael Bentine? It was because of his son that the government had to legislate about booking out. I have forgotten the year and my facts might be a little grey, but he used to fly the tug at Lasham. During one week he borrowed the tug for a flight to somewhere. He never made it. No-one realised he was missing until the weekend when they realised they were a tug short. Then found him about a week later hung up in some trees somewhere, dead of course. He had told no-one of his plans so no-one knew. After that it became the law to ‘book out’. It doesn’t have to be anything grand in any way as far as I know just so long as some-one somewhere knows where you are going and can alert the various authorities if you don’t arrive!

No-one knows if Michael might have been saved if someone just knew what he was doing. So if you value your life make sure your plans are known, it’s common sense really, - isn’t it?

Bob.

[dublinpilot]

But how does booking out help?

No one is likely to go looking for you from your departure field, unless you're due back the same day. If you're not due back for some time (maybe not returning there at all, ever) then they aren't going to come looking for you.

You're only hope is that someone at your destination raises the alarm. If they do, the booking out will give no information other than the fact that you departed, and an approximiate time. The important info, like your planed routing won't be known, and as it's the destination field raising the alarm, then your destination is already known. :confused:

The booking out proceedure is of little value for S&R purposes in my opinion.

[Mike Cross]

you would have thought such an important and legal document would have a standardised format

Why?
It's normal for legislation to define what has to be recorded but not how it is to be recorded.

I was at LHR on wednesday and saw the electronic flight strip system that is due to be introduced in the new tower. That will record the movements electronically. Do you outlaw it because it's not on the "official" form?

Mike

[bmoorhouse]

But how does booking out help?

No one is likely to go looking for you from your departure field, unless you're due back the same day. If you're not due back for some time (maybe not returning there at all, ever) then they aren't going to come looking for you.

You're only hope is that someone at your destination raises the alarm. If they do, the booking out will give no information other than the fact that you departed, and an approximiate time. The important info, like your planed routing won't be known, and as it's the destination field raising the alarm, then your destination is already known. :confused:

The booking out proceedure is of little value for S&R purposes in my opinion.

Completely agree - if I am just going for a local bimble I book out with the destination same as departure. However I could (and often do) fly up to 70 - 80 miles from the home airfield. That is some 15,000 square miles to search if I fail to return - what help is that to anyone?

Now what WOULD be useful is if all aircraft had to carry a radio and must always be in contact with a ground station for the duration of the flight - but that suggestion will no doubt open a whole new can of worms amongst a certain section of the aviation community. It would certainly be more useful for flight safety than this Mode-S nonsense.

[LowNSlow]

We have a booking out log purely to demonstrate the usage of the airfield. SAR doesn't come into it as there may not be anybody there for days at a time.

As a general statement I think the only way the SAR bods are likely to get alerted (apart from being overdue after filing a flight plan) is if you telephone the arrival airfield before you fly and then don't turn up.

[Mike Cross]

It would certainly be more useful for flight safety than this Mode-S nonsense.
How so? Mode S would pinpoint the position where the trace disappeared, which radio would not. (not that I am in favour of mandating Mode S in Class G you understand)

Mike

[vintage ATCO]

Anyone remember Michael Bentine? It was because of his son that the government had to legislate about booking out.

Indeed. Stuart Bentine disappeared 28 Aug 1971 in PA-19 G-AYPN but not found until 31 Oct that year, high in the trees at Ditcham Woods near Petersfield. The leaves had started to fall by then. But you are right, it was following this that the CAA introduced the mandatory 'booking-out'.

[Julian]

How so? Mode S would pinpoint the position where the trace disappeared, which radio would not. (not that I am in favour of mandating Mode S in Class G you understand)

Or buy yourself a personal ELT, our aircraft actually has a panel fitted one already. Got to be cheaper than paying for Mode S.

[gasax]

thanks for the interesting the background to what seems to be an ineffective and futile activity.

Take a quick look via Google and you'll find about 210,000 people are reported missing every year. At least 300 plus of those every year are never found. But have an interesting media story and famous people involved and hey presto a new law!

I've had the Customs Intelligence officers / group / department ( a classic oxymoron! ) visit the strip and start to demand movement logs, personal details ,all sorts of information which they technically have no right to ask.

I asked the same questions of the gentlemen concerned and strangely they refused to answer! Thankfully I had a lot of previous correspondence with the local police which left me in a position to quote chapter and verse to the Customs.

But once the hostilities were overcome, their complete ignorance of light aircraft operations did leave me somewhat surprised. To say they were gobsmacked by us not being able to fill up all those empty spaces in the airframe with swag was almost comical.

[On-MarkBob]

There is allways a way round the law if you want to. The law was introduced as the basis of what we should do. In this instance no-one could expect the law to cover every possible permutation. The law in this case is to make us think about what we are doing. The gentleman who books out with his destination airport as well as his departure airport has the right idea, like filing a flight plan. Booking out from a departure airfield only, as has been said, could be pointless but this generally it was for local area flying, telling someone you are going to the south or north or whatever, giving your endurance. Once again it's common sense, think about what you're going to do and formulate a plan. We pilots are supposed to be clever people, we shouldn't need to be wet nursed by huge amounts of legislation.

[bmoorhouse]

How so? Mode S would pinpoint the position where the trace disappeared, which radio would not. (not that I am in favour of mandating Mode S in Class G you understand)

Mike
I think I said it would improve flight safety more than mandatory Mode-S, not in discovering where an aircraft had disappeared.

[IO540]

On ELTs, IMHO they are pointless in the typical European (mountanious regions excepted) context, because most of Europe is so (relatively) densely populated that you could walk to a supermarket from most statistically likely engine failure sites.

In the most likely (if still highly unusual) scenario the ELT will sink with the plane to the bottom of the sea.

A handheld ELT (EPIRB) is much more useful.

The Bentine case is one of exceedingly few where an ELT would have made the wreckage discovery much faster; whether this would make any difference is another matter. Most attempted off-runway landings are successful as far as lack of major injuries goes, and most encounters with ground where a landing was not being attempted are immediately fatal.

[White Bear]

IO,
I recently attended an a.o.p.a. meeting on flight safety. I was stunned to hear that in only 15% of accidents did the ELT function. In fact because of this, satellite monitoring of ELT’s in the U.S. will end in, IIRC in 2009.
Regards,
W.B.

[IO540]

"In fact because of this, satellite monitoring of ELT’s in the U.S. will end in, IIRC in 2009."

Fortunately, whoever told you that didn't have a clue.

Satellite monitoring of 121.50MHz (useless for a long time now, and accuracy always nearly unusable) and of the old 243MHz (poor position fixing and many false alarms) is what is ending.

I also suspect the 15% figure is meaningless. Obviously, in ditchings the figure will be 100%.

All modern beacons use 406MHz. (they also emit 121.50 for close-in SAR DF purpose). This system continues and is very accurate. Especially if you spend the extra dosh and get one with an integral GPS; the coordinates are distributed fast and internationally.

Not that this stops UK pilot shops selling 243MHz units, cheaply :yuk:

I have a 243MHz unit in my N-reg, to meet the legal requirements. Due to widespread ripoff practices in the UK on anything to do with N-reg planes, I was quoted a small fortune for fitting a 406MHz one. I carry a 406MHz handheld instead. Now, one can get quite reasonably priced 406MHz fixed ELTs e.g. Artex ME-406.

If you want some reading, here's an article I found somewhere

Worldwide, the 121.5/243.0 MHz ELT signals will no longer be detected by
the SAR satellites. The following references will explain it better
than I can, but here is the first line of the text from the URL: "The
International Cospas-Sarsat System will cease satellite processing of
121.5/243 MHz beacons from 1 February 2009."
http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/FirstPage/121.5PhaseOut.htm

I did not find a reference to whether there is any FAA mandate that all
ELTs be replaced/upgraded, but they strongly recommend it in the AIM.

For those who want to know more about how your ELT signal gets detected
and the SAR process begins, check out the following links
http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/MainPages/indexEnglish.htm
http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/

[Julian]

White Bear,

I think what they were referring to, which I heard before, is that where an ELT is panel mounted in the aircraft there have been several cases where the impact has failed to activate the ELT.

So moral is, if you are going down turn it on yourself and dont leave it to the crash to do it for you!!! :}

As IO says, they are simply switching freqs but monitoring of ELTs will continue. Mate of mine bought himself an ELT just before they annouced this so had to swap it - DOH!

J.

[englishal]

Also having a transponder on and switching it 7700 on the way down may activate SAR I should imagine......

You can get some nifty small EPIRBS from the USA with dual frequency and GPS built in. About £350 delivered to your door in the UK....about £650 bought in the UK :rolleyes:

As IO says, they are simply switching freqs but monitoring of ELTs will continue. Mate of mine bought himself an ELT just before they annouced this so had to swap it - DOH!
It was not ML was it? I wondered why he sold it to me so cheap, doh.... :ugh: :}

[White Bear]

Englishal,
IO comments on the 406 MHz ELT’s served as a reminder to me that they existed. In retrospect I find it odd that not one pilot of the 100 or so that attended the AOPA meeting, questioned the instructor’s comments about ceasing to monitor older ELT transmissions, nor did the instructor mention the newer 406 MHZ ELT's.

As to your comments on using a transponder code to alert the controlling agency. With respect that might work in the U.K., but the distances in the U.S. might make reception difficult, and the very real possibility that one would not change transponder codes until one was absolutly certain one was going down, by then altitude may well make it impossible for anyone to receive the emergency code.

It seems the best thing is to save one’s shekels’ and install a 406MHZ ELT coupled to the GPS, and as Julian says, install a switch on the panel.

I always montior 121.5 with my backup radio, so with the flick of a switch it is ready to transmit. Let's hope that with proper planning, good maintenance and a little luck, I'll never have to use either of them!

When the instructor at the AOPA meeting asked the question "How many of you have had to make an emergency landing because of engine failure, or fire?", only one pilot raised his hand.
About 80% of the pilots attending were grey haired, those that had any that is, don't know if that means anything except the need to encourage more young people to fly, but it did suggest we had some very experienced pilots in the room.
Regards,
W.B.

[IO540]

It seems the best thing is to save one’s shekels’ and install a 406MHZ ELT coupled to the GPS, and as Julian says, install a switch on the panel.

FAA rules do require a panel switch, plus a G-activated (3G?) mechanism. What the FAA doesn't mandate (yet) is 406MHz.

But everybody is expecting 406MHz to be mandated. The ELT market is changing, and new cheaper and smaller ELTs are coming out.

Be grateful that you don't need to fit an ELT in the UK. With the older units, say a Kannad 406 with a list price about £1500 plus fitting, it would cost not far short of what a Mode S costs to put in.

About 80% of the pilots attending were grey haired

That's UK GA I am afraid. Not so sure they were necessarily very experienced. More likely they did their PPLs 20-30 years ago (in their 40s generally) and are still flying. High hour pilots rarely go to these "safety" presentations; they tend to be rather embarrassing.

[niknak]

Getting back to the original thread, if you book out and don't turn up when you are expected, then we and others have a pretty good idea of where to look for you.
The other reason for booking out, especially via the telephone before the flight, is so you don't occupy a busy frequency with information you could have imparted by other means, thereby not inconveniencing others with your life story.

We all know that the chances of something going wrong are rare, and an ATC unit is not obliged to follow up an overdue aircraft which has not filed a flight plan, but we would as matter of duty of care.

Of course, if you're a fully subscribed member of the "it'll never happen to me" club, with no regard for others, carry on....

[IO540]

I still fail to see the point of a departure aerodrome keeping a record. One can fly non-radio in Class G. One could still crash somewhere, and unless somebody else is watching out of you, nobody will ever know and nobody will know they should start looking for you. And if somebody is watching out for you, they will know when you left (because you sent them a text message, etc).

[Helen49]

My ATC days are somewhat distant now, but I recall one or two facts. First, filing a flight plan satisfies the Rule of the Air Regs; it also provides the information on which overdue action is based. Various documents provide info. on when the filing of plans is mandatory and recommended. Hence if you file a plan and then subsequently land at an unplanned destination for whatever reason, you must inform ATC that you were on a flight plan. Second, booking out provides ATC with essential information about your intentions after the wheels leave the ground. It enables ATC to accommodate your flight requirements and in the event that you are 'not landing away' will alert ATC if you don't return.......could save your bacon. Third, whilst some ATC units may be happy to accept 'booking outs' over the RTF, most will prefer this chatter to be done on a telephone where ther necessary interrogation can take place without inconveniencing and delaying others. (ATC telephone line busy is not a good reason for resorting to the RTF, it probably means that the RTF is also going to be busy)
H49

[IO540]

In other words, Helen, if I read you correctly there is no point in any of this except for search & rescue purposes :)

In the UK, Air Traffic do not provide a service to GA in Class G. There is only FIS (London Info etc) which has no radar, and there are bits of LARS and there you often can't get a service.

So it's no wonder that few people file flight plans within the UK. However, I am sure the powers to be are more than happy with this - nobody wants to spend extra money on services for GA.

[vintage ATCO]

In the UK, Air Traffic do not provide a service to GA in Class G.

Bugger, that's where I've been going wrong all these years. I have been!! :}

There is only FIS (London Info etc) which has no radar, and there are bits of LARS and there you often can't get a service.

Not the experience of many, I use to see all the stats.

[dublinpilot]

But surely the point here is, that completing a booking out form at your airport of departure, in no way informs your destination of your intended flight.

Therefore your destination has no idea you are coming, and no reason to instigate S&R?

Calling your destination for PPR may give them something to go on, but this is something completely seperate to booking out at your departure airport.

[flower]

Indeed Vintage ATCO, I wonder what we have been doing all that time on LARS Radar.

Booking out is an essential at our airport, without it you won't get airborne, as to what use it is, well it helps work out my salary :p .
As Niknak has said whilst we are not obliged to start overdue action unless an aircraft has filed a flight plan we certainly would do on an aircraft that was booked out if we had reason to believe they were overdue, we actually have a local agreement with the flying club as to how long we expect aircraft to be airborne and the booking out does include expected time airborne. In the event of a book out land away as opposed to local flight then of course all we could provide are ATD and the time the aircraft changed frequencies and to whom, that however could still help in the event of SAR.

I can only speak for an ATC controlled field, but it certainly has uses from our point of view.

[vintage ATCO]

But surely the point here is, that completing a booking out form at your airport of departure, in no way informs your destination of your intended flight.

Therefore your destination has no idea you are coming, and no reason to instigate S&R?

This is indeed to true, 'Booking Out' was never meant for this purpose. However, when eventually your nearest and dearest misses you and starts to enquire, going back to the booking out record, whatever that might be, is a start. I think that is what some are saying (without re-reading the thread). It then comes down, usually/sometimes, to a 'feeling in the water'.

Calling your destination for PPR may give them something to go on, but this is something completely seperate to booking out at your departure airport.

Yes, and I would not start anything merely based on a request for PPR not turning up. I should add I have limited exposure to people calling for PPR, others may think differently.

[IO540]

Vintage ATCO

I am of course referring to how often an RIS is refused. Sunny Sundays especially. Especially in the last year or two.

I suppose an FIS (no squawk) from a radar unit is worth having because (one never knows....) they might in reality be keeping half an eye on you even if they don't tell you.

But an FIS from a non radar unit is worth exactly what? A listening watch on 124.60 is just as good. Apart from additional services such as getting airways clearances from London Control, it does no more than a text message to my girlfriend telling her of my departure, and to call the police if I don't arrive by time X.

It's a real shame London Info don't have radar.

The French FIS now seems to have radar almost universally; this results in being watched all the way across France while having a very quiet flight, with little work for the pilot and presumably little work for ATC too. Transits through bits of Class D "just happen"; they are so damn close to implicit that you don't even need to call up; just giving them your route amounts to a clearance all the way across France. I am talking VFR of course, outside Class A. Not sure why the UK can't do that; somebody decided to keep "ATS to the rifraf" in the gutter.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Dublinpilot

But surely the point here is, that completing a booking out form at your airport of departure, in no way informs your destination of your intended flight.

Absolutely correct.

Therefore your destination has no idea you are coming, and no reason to instigate S&R?

Not true in all cases, although I take your point that it is not linked to booking out. For example, if you are one of the rare breed who files a VFR Flight Plan (which could be a written or verbal 'abbreviated' one), then the arrival aerodrome ATC unit will have your information and can commence 'overdue' action upon it if you don't arrive. Also, if your arrival airfield is not connected to the AFTN (i.e. they won't receive the plan) or does not have an ATC unit, then the obligation is on the pilot to appoint a 'responsible person' who will initiate the 'overdue' action if you have not arrived within 30 minutes of your notified arrival time (if you can't find one, then the parent Area Control Centre can be asked to act as this person, in which case you need to call them to let them know you are safe (or running late) before the 30 minutes after planned arrival time is up). Full details in the UK AIP ENR section.

The ANO also gives a generic catch all in Rule 20 so that you have to let somone know before you depart, and once you arrive. As with a lot of laws, there are some holes in it and it does not make things crystal clear though ;)

It certainly doesn't say that you need to let an arrival airfield know about you before you arrive.

Notification of arrival and departure

20 (1) The commander of an aircraft who has caused notice of its intended arrival at any aerodrome to be given to the air traffic control unit or other authority at that aerodrome shall ensure that the air traffic control unit or other authority at that aerodrome is informed as quickly as possible of any change of intended destination and any estimated delay in arrival of 45 minutes or more.

(2) The commander of an aircraft arriving at or departing from an aerodrome in the United Kingdom shall take all reasonable steps to ensure upon landing or prior to departure, as the case may be, that notice of that event is given to the person in charge of the aerodrome, or to the air traffic control unit or aerodrome flight information service unit at the aerodrome.

Paragraphs 3 & 4 omitted as they are not really relevant.

Calling your destination for PPR may give them something to go on, but this is something completely seperate to booking out at your departure airport.

Agreed :ok:

In terms of SAR usefulness, there are two main elements which Rule 20 mandates and can be used by the authorities. Let's not debate how the 'overdue' action came to pass (for now) but talk about what happens next.

First of all, the authorities will check with the arrival aerodrome whether you have actually arrived or not. Remember that Rule 20 says you have to tell someone there you have arrived, be it the ATC unit, airfield owner/operator, or parent ATC unit. They will also probably dispatch a local bobby if they can't get confirmation from anyone so he can see if your aircraft is on the airfield. Whilst this is going on, similar checks will also be made at your departure airfield. This is to help calculate the radius of the search area because they will know your approximate departure time (Rule 20 requires you to give notice of your intended departure), a ball park aircraft speed (either as filed, or from aircraft data they hold), and an endurance (worst case would be your maximum if you did not pass your exact one to anybody). From that, they will know how far you could have made it from the departure aerodrome, and when your fuel would have been exhausted. In addition to providing a radius for any ground search, this will also help identify other aerodromes where you might have landed instead. They can then contact these other aerodromes by a signal if they have ATC which is open (A generic Request News message), by telephone, or by other means through the local police.

So 'booking out' is not as big a waste of time as it might seem. It certainly saves the SAR people some time in tightening up any action they are required to take.

Coming back to the initiating 'overdue' action part of the story, my own view is that this is not robust enough and the ANO should mandate someone being nominated as a responsbile person, either by communicating a Flight Plan to the arrival ATC unit, by nominating someone such as the airfield operator/owner or a relative or friend, or by getting the parent ATC Centre to do it on your behalf. The AIP and the ANO don't totally align on this and there are gaps in both 'procedures' which mean that you can still fly without anyone knowing you will be coming and looking out for you if the worst should happen.

[dublinpilot]

I can see the point in booking out if there is ATC on the field, and you are returning back to the same field. ATC are then expecting you back by a certain time, and can get concerned if you don't.

But lets say I book out from Old Sarum, for a flight to Blackpool. There is no requirement to file a flight plan, so I don't. Any time I have rung Blackpool for PPR, they have told me that it is a public use airport, and I don't require PPR, and they have taken no details. So lets say this happens this time.

Now unlike what PPruneRadar says, I have never seen a booking out form (so far as I can remember) that asked me for speed and endurange. Yes a flight plan will, but usually a booking out form ask for no more than:

Date
Type
Operator
No of paxs
Time of departure
Destination/Nature of exercise.

So I take off from Old Sarum, en route to Blackpool, and I go missing. I never turn up at Blackpool.

No one is expecting me in Blackpool because of my booking out in Old Sarum. But when eventually someone realises that I have gone missing, their first port of call will be the booking out form.

They can tell that I left, what time I left, and that I intended to go to Blackpool and can confirm with Blackpool that I didn't turn up, but no more. They have no idea whatsoever of my intended route, and therefore have an impracticably large part of the country to cover. If I got to Caernarfon and decided the weather wasn't good enough to continue so stopped there, there would be no reason for me to phone Blackpool. They weren't expecting me, and no one there was either.

A requirement to "book in" with the destination before departure would have some advantages. A requirement to file a flight plan would have some advantages. But I still fail to see the use in booking out, at least as far as S&R goes. Even in the Bentine incident, I fail to see how it would have helped. Most likely the booking out sheet would have simply shown either "Local" or given a destination, but not a routing to start looking for him.

It may help ATC with traffic flow, but I can't see the use for S&R.

It seems to be a pecularity to the UK.

It's all very well to talk about the benefits of filing a flight plan, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about a booking out.

dp (Who files a flight plan for 9 out of 10 flights)

[dublinpilot]

Ok, having thought a little more about it, I can see one useful point in the booking out procedure.

In the above example, if someone at Old Sarum thought I should be returning and got concerned because I didn't, they could go to the booking out sheet, and confirm that I had intended to fly to Blackpool. They could then call Blackpool would could confirm that the aircraft was safely sitting on their apron, and that no S&R was required.

But I still can't see it's usefulness when S&R is required, or how the booking out would alert S&R.

dp

[vintage ATCO]

dp, you sum it up pretty well. All I can add (others may add more) that if you have given anyone at your original destination any hint you would be arriving and then land elsewhere, do let them know. It just stops any hares running. OK, we don't have to do anything but it just stops that nagging thought.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Now unlike what PPruneRadar says, I have never seen a booking out form (so far as I can remember) that asked me for speed and endurange. Yes a flight plan will, but usually a booking out form ask for no more than:
Date
Type
Operator
No of paxs
Time of departure
Destination/Nature of exercise.

Don't remember I said you need to provide speed or endurance. The authourities have generic information available if precise figures are not available. So they will assume maximum cruise speed and endurance, unless told otherwise.

PS Perhaps the Irish authorities will assume otherwise, my notes only apply to UK FIRs.

But I still fail to see the use in booking out, at least as far as S&R goes. Even in the Bentine incident, I fail to see how it would have helped. Most likely the booking out sheet would have simply shown either "Local" or given a destination, but not a routing to start looking for him.

As an outsider I can accept you may see how it would have failed to help. As an insider, knowing the departure time, fuel endurance, and departure aerodrome, the chances of an earlier discovery were so much more positive. But hey, what do the SAR folks know about it ??

:E

[IO540]

what do the SAR folks know about it

The Q one might ask here is how many planes just vanish into thin air.

Those (very few) examples where somebody didn't arrive and their remains were not found until the next year, etc, don't really prove anything. If you come down into a forest, unless it is next to Tesco (or a footpath) and somebody notices the smell, you may be there for years, and be invisible from an aerial search.

Quite a lot of countries have mandatory flight plans, or (like Spain) mandatory for CAS which means mandatory for anything practical. But one can't tell whether this is for "control of GA" or S&R.

I actually think that if you come down somewhere and are injured and can't move, S&R won't find you for many hours or days at best. Your best hope is a radio call and setting 7700. Curiously, you should get picked up much quicker if you ditch and are sitting in the raft with an activated EPIRB. Again, mandatory ELTs (US-style) would help here but that would be another Mode-S-like uproar.

[dublinpilot]

Don't remember I said you need to provide speed or endurance.

Sorry PpR. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

I misunderstood when you said
This is to help calculate the radius of the search area because they will know your approximate departure time (Rule 20 requires you to give notice of your intended departure), a ball park aircraft speed (either as filed, or from aircraft data they hold), and an endurance (worst case would be your maximum if you did not pass your exact one to anybody).

dp

[PPRuNe Radar]

No worries :ok: