Booking-out procedure
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Booking-out procedure
Hi everyone,
Can anyone direct me to a website or other were it explains the booking-out procedure and when to use it. I have tried a search on here and the caa but no luck.
Also, do you book-out at every airport whether ATC, FIS or A/G and if you have a flight plan?
Why is booking-out necessary or is it not that important?
Thanks for your help guys!
Can anyone direct me to a website or other were it explains the booking-out procedure and when to use it. I have tried a search on here and the caa but no luck.
Also, do you book-out at every airport whether ATC, FIS or A/G and if you have a flight plan?
Why is booking-out necessary or is it not that important?
Thanks for your help guys!
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Booking out procedure varies at different airfields and at some can be done over the R/T, other places require you to fill in some sort of sheet or form in ATC or another office, most places a Flight Plan will cover this and booking out should not be required if you have filed one. I do not think there is a site that tells you about what procedures exist at different fields, best just to ask at the time.
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booking out/in
Booking in/out: A charming anachronism which is intended to allow the search and rescue services to have a general idea of where to start looking if you happen to disappear en route.
I do it twice a day most of the year - usually by phone but occasionally on the radio.
If you have filed a flight plan then you generally needn't do it (worth a call to check ATC have your flight plan though as sometimes it gets misfiled).
Generally you need to state:
ETD
Destination
Number on Board
Estimated time en route
Fuel endurance
I do it twice a day most of the year - usually by phone but occasionally on the radio.
If you have filed a flight plan then you generally needn't do it (worth a call to check ATC have your flight plan though as sometimes it gets misfiled).
Generally you need to state:
ETD
Destination
Number on Board
Estimated time en route
Fuel endurance
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I think it is about time the CAA issued a standardised document for booking in/out. A friend of mine has a private strip and had a visit from Customs and they wanted to see his booking in/out sheet. He asked them politely to show him a copy of this sheet and they said they didnt have one! The following logical question elicited a sarcastic reply, namely that he should just make one up! You can imagine where this particular conversation whent. Suffice to say if the Customs require you to have a booking in/out sheet then you would expect the CAA to supply one? A simmilar situation is the tech log! Have you noticed how every one has a different format and the time logged varries from brakes on/off, airborn, block, tacho, hobbs etc. I realise the difference is usually the way the money is charged. But likewise you would have thought such an important and legal document would have a standardised format.
The relevant legislation is Rule 20(2).
Rule 20(2) The commander of an aircraft arriving at or departing from an aerodrome in the United Kingdom shall take all reasonable steps to ensure upon landing or prior to departure, as the case may be, that notice of that event is given to the person in charge of the aerodrome, or to the air traffic control unit or aerodrome flight information service unit at the aerodrome.
Thus to satisfy the legislation, booking out by telephone, fax, or R/T is acceptable. No particular details are specified, and the list is purely conventional for S&R puposes.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no legal requirement for the owner/operator of an unlicensed aerodrome to record movements or retain such a record.
Rule 20(2) The commander of an aircraft arriving at or departing from an aerodrome in the United Kingdom shall take all reasonable steps to ensure upon landing or prior to departure, as the case may be, that notice of that event is given to the person in charge of the aerodrome, or to the air traffic control unit or aerodrome flight information service unit at the aerodrome.
Thus to satisfy the legislation, booking out by telephone, fax, or R/T is acceptable. No particular details are specified, and the list is purely conventional for S&R puposes.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no legal requirement for the owner/operator of an unlicensed aerodrome to record movements or retain such a record.
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Originally Posted by bookworm
To the best of my knowledge, there is no legal requirement for the owner/operator of an unlicensed aerodrome to record movements or retain such a record.
Spitoon, with respect, I think you have missed Bookworm's point!
Yes, all flights should be "booked out" whether or not the aerodrome is licensed or not BUT, as far as we can ascertain, there is no LEGAL requirement for airfields to keep written records of such "bookings out", notwithstandings flights which are subject to rules under the Prevention of Terrorism Act and/or flights departing or arriving airfields from outside the UK.
It is obviously common sense to book out even for a local flight, in the event of becoming overdue. Filing a flight plan constitutes bookings out but not vice versa.
Many airfields require one to book out with ATC on the phone prior to departure and if you do not you will not be allowed to taxi until you have!
From an instructional point of view, I encourage and demonstrate to my students to book out with the person in charge of the airfield and NOT on RT as this creates a lot of unecessary RT chat and extra workload for the student and is, hopefully, creating a good habit for when he is operating as a licensed pilot.
Yes, all flights should be "booked out" whether or not the aerodrome is licensed or not BUT, as far as we can ascertain, there is no LEGAL requirement for airfields to keep written records of such "bookings out", notwithstandings flights which are subject to rules under the Prevention of Terrorism Act and/or flights departing or arriving airfields from outside the UK.
It is obviously common sense to book out even for a local flight, in the event of becoming overdue. Filing a flight plan constitutes bookings out but not vice versa.
Many airfields require one to book out with ATC on the phone prior to departure and if you do not you will not be allowed to taxi until you have!
From an instructional point of view, I encourage and demonstrate to my students to book out with the person in charge of the airfield and NOT on RT as this creates a lot of unecessary RT chat and extra workload for the student and is, hopefully, creating a good habit for when he is operating as a licensed pilot.
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Bookin Out
Anyone remember Michael Bentine? It was because of his son that the government had to legislate about booking out. I have forgotten the year and my facts might be a little grey, but he used to fly the tug at Lasham. During one week he borrowed the tug for a flight to somewhere. He never made it. No-one realised he was missing until the weekend when they realised they were a tug short. Then found him about a week later hung up in some trees somewhere, dead of course. He had told no-one of his plans so no-one knew. After that it became the law to ‘book out’. It doesn’t have to be anything grand in any way as far as I know just so long as some-one somewhere knows where you are going and can alert the various authorities if you don’t arrive!
No-one knows if Michael might have been saved if someone just knew what he was doing. So if you value your life make sure your plans are known, it’s common sense really, - isn’t it?
Bob.
No-one knows if Michael might have been saved if someone just knew what he was doing. So if you value your life make sure your plans are known, it’s common sense really, - isn’t it?
Bob.
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But how does booking out help?
No one is likely to go looking for you from your departure field, unless you're due back the same day. If you're not due back for some time (maybe not returning there at all, ever) then they aren't going to come looking for you.
You're only hope is that someone at your destination raises the alarm. If they do, the booking out will give no information other than the fact that you departed, and an approximiate time. The important info, like your planed routing won't be known, and as it's the destination field raising the alarm, then your destination is already known.
The booking out proceedure is of little value for S&R purposes in my opinion.
No one is likely to go looking for you from your departure field, unless you're due back the same day. If you're not due back for some time (maybe not returning there at all, ever) then they aren't going to come looking for you.
You're only hope is that someone at your destination raises the alarm. If they do, the booking out will give no information other than the fact that you departed, and an approximiate time. The important info, like your planed routing won't be known, and as it's the destination field raising the alarm, then your destination is already known.
The booking out proceedure is of little value for S&R purposes in my opinion.
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you would have thought such an important and legal document would have a standardised format
It's normal for legislation to define what has to be recorded but not how it is to be recorded.
I was at LHR on wednesday and saw the electronic flight strip system that is due to be introduced in the new tower. That will record the movements electronically. Do you outlaw it because it's not on the "official" form?
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Originally Posted by dublinpilot
But how does booking out help?
No one is likely to go looking for you from your departure field, unless you're due back the same day. If you're not due back for some time (maybe not returning there at all, ever) then they aren't going to come looking for you.
You're only hope is that someone at your destination raises the alarm. If they do, the booking out will give no information other than the fact that you departed, and an approximiate time. The important info, like your planed routing won't be known, and as it's the destination field raising the alarm, then your destination is already known.
The booking out proceedure is of little value for S&R purposes in my opinion.
No one is likely to go looking for you from your departure field, unless you're due back the same day. If you're not due back for some time (maybe not returning there at all, ever) then they aren't going to come looking for you.
You're only hope is that someone at your destination raises the alarm. If they do, the booking out will give no information other than the fact that you departed, and an approximiate time. The important info, like your planed routing won't be known, and as it's the destination field raising the alarm, then your destination is already known.
The booking out proceedure is of little value for S&R purposes in my opinion.
Now what WOULD be useful is if all aircraft had to carry a radio and must always be in contact with a ground station for the duration of the flight - but that suggestion will no doubt open a whole new can of worms amongst a certain section of the aviation community. It would certainly be more useful for flight safety than this Mode-S nonsense.
We have a booking out log purely to demonstrate the usage of the airfield. SAR doesn't come into it as there may not be anybody there for days at a time.
As a general statement I think the only way the SAR bods are likely to get alerted (apart from being overdue after filing a flight plan) is if you telephone the arrival airfield before you fly and then don't turn up.
As a general statement I think the only way the SAR bods are likely to get alerted (apart from being overdue after filing a flight plan) is if you telephone the arrival airfield before you fly and then don't turn up.
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It would certainly be more useful for flight safety than this Mode-S nonsense.
Mike
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Originally Posted by On-MarkBob
Anyone remember Michael Bentine? It was because of his son that the government had to legislate about booking out.
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How so? Mode S would pinpoint the position where the trace disappeared, which radio would not. (not that I am in favour of mandating Mode S in Class G you understand)
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thanks for the interesting the background to what seems to be an ineffective and futile activity.
Take a quick look via Google and you'll find about 210,000 people are reported missing every year. At least 300 plus of those every year are never found. But have an interesting media story and famous people involved and hey presto a new law!
I've had the Customs Intelligence officers / group / department ( a classic oxymoron! ) visit the strip and start to demand movement logs, personal details ,all sorts of information which they technically have no right to ask.
I asked the same questions of the gentlemen concerned and strangely they refused to answer! Thankfully I had a lot of previous correspondence with the local police which left me in a position to quote chapter and verse to the Customs.
But once the hostilities were overcome, their complete ignorance of light aircraft operations did leave me somewhat surprised. To say they were gobsmacked by us not being able to fill up all those empty spaces in the airframe with swag was almost comical.
Take a quick look via Google and you'll find about 210,000 people are reported missing every year. At least 300 plus of those every year are never found. But have an interesting media story and famous people involved and hey presto a new law!
I've had the Customs Intelligence officers / group / department ( a classic oxymoron! ) visit the strip and start to demand movement logs, personal details ,all sorts of information which they technically have no right to ask.
I asked the same questions of the gentlemen concerned and strangely they refused to answer! Thankfully I had a lot of previous correspondence with the local police which left me in a position to quote chapter and verse to the Customs.
But once the hostilities were overcome, their complete ignorance of light aircraft operations did leave me somewhat surprised. To say they were gobsmacked by us not being able to fill up all those empty spaces in the airframe with swag was almost comical.
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There is allways a way round the law if you want to. The law was introduced as the basis of what we should do. In this instance no-one could expect the law to cover every possible permutation. The law in this case is to make us think about what we are doing. The gentleman who books out with his destination airport as well as his departure airport has the right idea, like filing a flight plan. Booking out from a departure airfield only, as has been said, could be pointless but this generally it was for local area flying, telling someone you are going to the south or north or whatever, giving your endurance. Once again it's common sense, think about what you're going to do and formulate a plan. We pilots are supposed to be clever people, we shouldn't need to be wet nursed by huge amounts of legislation.
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Originally Posted by Mike Cross
How so? Mode S would pinpoint the position where the trace disappeared, which radio would not. (not that I am in favour of mandating Mode S in Class G you understand)
Mike
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On ELTs, IMHO they are pointless in the typical European (mountanious regions excepted) context, because most of Europe is so (relatively) densely populated that you could walk to a supermarket from most statistically likely engine failure sites.
In the most likely (if still highly unusual) scenario the ELT will sink with the plane to the bottom of the sea.
A handheld ELT (EPIRB) is much more useful.
The Bentine case is one of exceedingly few where an ELT would have made the wreckage discovery much faster; whether this would make any difference is another matter. Most attempted off-runway landings are successful as far as lack of major injuries goes, and most encounters with ground where a landing was not being attempted are immediately fatal.
In the most likely (if still highly unusual) scenario the ELT will sink with the plane to the bottom of the sea.
A handheld ELT (EPIRB) is much more useful.
The Bentine case is one of exceedingly few where an ELT would have made the wreckage discovery much faster; whether this would make any difference is another matter. Most attempted off-runway landings are successful as far as lack of major injuries goes, and most encounters with ground where a landing was not being attempted are immediately fatal.
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IO,
I recently attended an a.o.p.a. meeting on flight safety. I was stunned to hear that in only 15% of accidents did the ELT function. In fact because of this, satellite monitoring of ELT’s in the U.S. will end in, IIRC in 2009.
Regards,
W.B.
I recently attended an a.o.p.a. meeting on flight safety. I was stunned to hear that in only 15% of accidents did the ELT function. In fact because of this, satellite monitoring of ELT’s in the U.S. will end in, IIRC in 2009.
Regards,
W.B.