UK Conversion

[510orbust]

I am a Canadian ATPL holder and I have just started the conversions to the UK ATPL....I just finished writing six exams here, so if there are any Canucks that are not sure how to go about it let me know and I will gladly give you all the info I have.....

510

[hibypassratio]

Hi 510.

I'm curious about the process. I started a thread in the "questions" forum above. I will have my CDN ATPL signed off very soon. My wife was born in the UK and maintains a UK passport but is now a CDN citizen. We are considering going there in the future. So far finding the process daunting.

[coastflyer]

510

I looked into the conversion in the fall, but wanted to wait to and ensure I had the finances in order.

Did you self-study, or use a school. If you have some course material perhaps you may be willing to sell them...

Let me know

[510orbust]

The process only seems daunting but if you are just getting your ATP signed off I will take it you dont have 500 hours on a 2 crew aircraft. In this case you will have to do the ground school with a british based company, 2 that specialize in it are oxford and bristol. Give them a call and they can guide you in the right direction.

As far as selling my stuff, I am moving to the UK end of this month to go full time at it so I need all my books at the moment.

regards

510

[hibypassratio]

510, I'm confused. Is it 500 multi-crew or 1500 multi-crew?

[coastflyer]

510,

I don't know. I have the Canadian ATPL with a little over 4000 hours, of which 3500 hrs is in M/E turbine 2 crew airplanes, They (caa) still said I needed to write the exams (i think 14 in total)and then do a ride. They did however suggest I could do the ride on the sim, although I really don't know how this would help.

I looked at the Bristol course and it seems the way to go. A couple of friends over their said it was also well regarded.

How much do you figure the conversion will cost you?

[6000PIC]

I just finished writing the 14 UK JAA ATPL Exams , and passed all on the first attempt, now I`m real glad I`ll never have to do that again !
If you have any specific questions , I`d be glad to try and help.

[minus273]

Hi there,

Here is something that I wrote for someone else and edited that may be of help to some of you?

I was working in the USA, I obtained my FAA ATPL and then got the Canadian one. The knowledge that you have obtained from your Canadian ATPL will help you, the JAA exam are not any harder just a longer course of the same material.

The Medical for initial issue is only able to be done in the UK at Gatwick from my understanding, the advantage is that you will not need it to take the exams I did not do mine until I had finished the exams I then used one of my other class1 (Canadian)medicals to get a discount on the JAA one.

For starting the Ground School you will have to sign up with a school though to do the distance learning, it is not like TC or FAA where you can just do the course on your own. You have to be signed up through a school. If you hold an ICAO ATPL you will not have to do the 650hrs GS and can take the exams as soon as the school signs you off.

If you have a CPL you will have to do some of the GS The only difference would be that you would have to do a minimum of 650hrs on the course which is accomplished by doing homework and sending it in.

Another thing to look at is that there are schools in the US in Florida that you can do the course through and they even I believe have an exam site. So you will not need to travel all the way to the UK, which with the way the dollar is would be a good thing.

Other things to look into are which books to use etc. Also whether you can get the books second hand or not, feedback is another thing to look at the Bristol & Oxford are deemed to be the best.

The JAA ATPL will not be issued until you have 1500hrs and other requirements the hardest of which is the 500hrs multi-crew. What they deem as Multi-crew can be found at the CAA web site for example the do not count a B1900 as multi-crew as it can be flown single pilot.

So you need a minimum number of hours to start the course what they call a Modular student this will be a PPL and 100hrs I believe.

As an Canadian or FAA CPL/ATPL holder you should meet all the requirements to start the ATPL knowledge exams.

The way that I did mine was take 14 exams, take medical, go to US and do CPL flight tests (Was given an hour discount). This can be issued by the head of training.

I would then come back to the UK do the IFR test (10hrs sim, 5hrs flight) then if I did not have the Multi-Crew Cooperation course (MCC) or required hrs would do the MCC course. The MCC is the part where you need the 500 hrs in Multi-crew aircraft.

The medical you will need is class1, if you hold a Canadian or FAA should not be a big issue and once you have the initial medical done in Gatwick you will be able to get your medical renewed at a suitable medical person in the Canada or US.

If you are doing it over time like I am you will have 3 years to do the Instrument rating, if not you will have to re-do the exams.

Costs: Each exam 52GBP so 14 exams. 728GBP
Distance learning Course approx 2000GBP
Flight Test fee approx 600GBP
Licence Issue fee approx 200GBP
Radio Licence: You should be able to get this free if you send in your Canadian licence with your licence application.

The prices were correct at the time I did mine. The best place to look is at the CAA web site and also look at LASORS (Similiar to the FAR/AIM and Canadian AIP)

Well if you need any other info feel free to mail me, I also have the Oxford books and feedback for sale.

Good luck and safe flying

-273

[MOTHERGOOSE]

hi guys,
just a quick q?at what point does one not have to do the 14 exams to convert.?e,g... would it be if the hours you have qualify you for unfrozen jaa atpl?just a thought.i too have the canadian one and would like to convert it with the view of moving to the uk.

[minus273]

Hey there,

If you have an ICAO PPL with 100hrs or above I believe and could be wrong here you can start whenever you want. See above post for ins and outs on what you get relieved from.

When you do the exams you will have a period of time in which to complete them all, think it is 18months. So you can not do them over a 5 year period.

You will also have to have completed the IR within 3 years of the exams. Otherwise you have to take them all again.

This will give you some idea of things:

www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/lasors.pdf (ooo forgot it is a 4.8Mb file)


-273

[6000PIC]

I was told that you require 3000 hrs + P1 on a/c in excess of 30 tons , still have to write air law and hp&l.

[Truthmaster]

Forget about the others GTS are part of PTC who are linked to Moncton. I've been to them all and GTS has by far the best training at the most reasonable price. Plus the most experienced instructors.

[Canadiankid]

Hi fella's,

I finished my conversion a while back and am now working in the UK. Much hard work and some cash but the best move of my career so far. The job market is picking up and fast with BA and Virgin leading the charge. This time next year I think everyone will be recruiting and if you have 1500 hour plus with turbo time you will get a job. For you lower time chaps things will be good as well.

PM me for further info.

Cheers

[metro_435]

hi guys,

I moved over a few months ago to convert my ATPL to the JAA. I did my studying through Oxford and found them very good. I now have 35 CVs in the mail and am hoping this has all been worth while.

[510orbust]

sorry for the delay...ok here is what you have to do for the conversion

most guys have to do the 14 exams unless you have command heavy time airbus 747 type stuff. lear, challenger command does not count as its not over the (tonnage ) they deem makes you excempt.

each exam is now 55 sterling, write in glasgow if you can if not london it is, nothing manchester way. 14 exams complete in 6 sittings 4 attempts at each exam ( i had both bristol and oxford books- i recommend bristol more condensed plus online exams very good) but i wouldnt recommend flying there, too expensive and they treated me like i had 250 hours no offence to the low hour guys I was there once, but they quoted something like 25 hours for my ir conversion and 15 hours for my commercial even after telling them my experience level.....

once the 14 are done its time for the flying....

IR conversion 15 hours - 10 aircraft, 5 simulator ///get ready for dead reconing and no radar control at lower altitudes. plus they can fail you if you go direct a beacon and that beacon is only good for 15 miles and you are 20 miles out with a good signal and ident!!!!! how dead reconing is more reliable then a good signal and everything making sense I dont know but when in Rome.......

multi engine ride - 1 hour then flight test (usually with school examiner)

commercial ride - hours as required took me 3.5 then the ride not like the canadian, i did mine in a twin consisted of a nav leg, diversion at any altitude, no 500 feet agl diversion here so its easy 3 stalls, limited panel turns and recovery from unusual attitudes ( no closing eyes or head in crotch). back to the circuit for a flapless, single engine approach and overshoot circle to land and one normal circuit....... They will also take you through a MATZ if at all able for a clearance and radio work

(multi/ifr/commercial times all based on your level of experience could take more or less but the 15 hours for the IFR (ir here) is manditory you cant do less then that)

(note must do a multi engine written exam at your school as well its free of charge)

radio exam- 40 sterling, consists of a radio simulator 2 hours long with a guy marking you as a plane moves across the screen

medical based on your canadian cat 1 - 250 sterling, 500 otherwise

total flying all in 7000 sterling
they charge 635 sterling just for the caa examiner for the ir skills test so for the flight test you are looking at 1000 sterling.

i hope that clarifies things, total in roughly 20 000 canadian

wages here are nearly double to canada when you secure a job, i dont tend to listen to ppruners much as alot complain, as in canada the industry here is what you make of it......

ps above post incorrect about the medical...

if you have a canadian cat 1 medical you MUST do the medical here in the UK at gatwick with the caa the first time but its 250 sterling instead of the 500 sterling. I WOULD ADVISE DOING THE MEDICAL BEFORE THE EXAMS AS ITS A LITTLE TOUGHER, NO POINT FINDING OUT YOU FAIL THE HIGH FLOW TEST WHICH WE DONT HAVE TO DO AND NOT BEING ABLE TO GET A CAT 1

but remember you need a right of abode here or a eu passport, i know its common sense but the younger guys may not.....

as far as doing your IR/commercial ride in a simulator...if the sim of choice is in the UK you are in luck if its not, say the US well they dont tend to send people over for a private individual and the costs were around 1300 sterling a day for the examiner plus airfare hotel and everything else.......

any canadians up manchester way send me a message\!!!!!

[FFP]

Jeez, all you guys leaving Canada to come here and I'm trying to escape to get there .. . . . . !

I would agree that the market over here is picking up, but beware. The cost of living is also far higher, property prices in the UK are outside of the average wage bracket (in fact I earn £40,000 and cannot afford a house in Oxfordshire) and tax / NI is high. Having lived in both Canada and the UK, the people are nicer in Canada, it's a better quality of life and I know which I prefer. The grass may seem greener . . . . .. . .

Have no doubt that anyone moving over here has done their research and will have valid reasons but just wanted to add my 2 pence worth .. . .

Good luck with the conversions

[coolcaptain]

510:


The other guy said they just handed him a radio license, are you sure you needed to pay?

What is a MATZ?

And lastly, how do they expect you to know the reliable signal distance from an NDB?

I'm writing the first 7 next month in Gatwick.

I only have about 300 hours on "multi-crew" aircraft but I have thousands on aircraft flown as multi-crew. (Be1900, B200, Be99) Has anyone here had to apply for that exemption, and is it pretty much automatic?

I heard one guy was able to get a letter from the CAA which he could hand to potential employers which basically said he had done his exams, but simply needed a CAA flight test to sign him off. Anyone else heard of this?

Cheers.

[510orbust]

good day,

with your time on the kingair and 1900 you will qualify no problem for the exemption because I am pretty sure that your ops spec listed that those aircraft were flown 2 crew. My friends from Sweden that just finished the conversions all had twin otter time so a Kingair is no different. On the form you fill in for the exams there is an exemption box, just tick it, you dont have to send anything in or ask them. You will also get your Multi crew signed off, all you have to do for that is when you are in Gatwick give them your log books some sterling and they will mail it all back to you within a couple of days...across the hall is the medical office go in there and book or do it on the phone as the waiting list can be up to a month.....

As far as the radio licence goes, I asked the radio examiner, and also the flight school and legally with canucks you must do the radio licence exam. To be honest its not a bad idea as radio procedures here are quite a bit different to canada and its a good way to get familiar with the airspace and how to make certain calls when entering a MATZ OR REQUESTING A LARS..

a matz is military air traffic zone with the radar surv. radiating outward from the airport for 30 nm a Lars is low airspace radar survelliance. When inside these you can either get a RIS or get a RAS..... and funny enough in air law you learn nothing about these just all about ICAO and the different annex. (BS)

Even though I paid the 40 something sterling for the radio licence and did the radio simulator exam (2 hours) the debriefing from the guy was great and I learned so much about UK airspace again something that airlaw doesnt teach you, go figure....

So much is different here, even what special VFR is, thats where this radio test comes in handy....special vfr allows you to enter class a airspace around an aerodrome, only one in the UK right now is LHR...class a here is nothing like a in canada so try and forget all the canadian stuff for now..expecially standard pressure regions and alt setting regions, altimeters change here from altitudes to flight levels around 3000 ft.

As far as the effective range of an NDB, I posed that question to my instructor, I said you are now flying in Londons airspace tracking too a beacon with a good signal, needle pointing as it should how would you know you are out of range, his reply, he wouldnt but this is the training world and this is what you must know up here...As I said when in Rome!!!!!!!

510

ps- that letter you are talking about is for the multi crew exemption. You will come here with a canadian ATPL, when you are finished your exams and your flight training and hand everything into the CAA you will come out with a UK COMMERCIAL LICENCE not a UK ATPL. To get an ATPL in this country you must have a type rating on a multi crew airplane. So when you get your first job, you hand in this exemption to your employer, you do your type training, pass your ride go to the CAA hand them nearly 200 sterling and they issue you another plastic folder with an ATPL licence....

[jumpy737]

"I was told that you require 3000 hrs + P1 on a/c in excess of 30 tons , still have to write air law and hp&l."

It looks like it's 3000 hours on A/C greater than 30000 tons, of which only 1500 is required to be PIC to get the exemption.

[FAB]

Hi, I also expect to start the distance ATPL ground school in the Uk in few weeks and then convert my Canadian CPL to JAR, could you please give me some infos regarding my situation:

I have 250 hours TT with the A320 type rating and I am waiting for a 500 hours F/O line training on the airbus that I should start in Asia next October.
So I was wondering if I could validate the JAR CPL/IR on the A320 simulator after my 500 hours multi-crew experience without an ATPL or do I have to pass a flight test on single engine because I have less than 1500 hrs?

Thanks

[coolcaptain]

510,


Thanks for all the info, it's great.

I just wanted to clarify this letter thing. Are you saying that I would be able to get a Commercial license by just doing the exams, handing in my log book and paying some cash? What about the instrument rating?

I know that you have to do a type rating to have your ATR signed off, and if you still need to do a commercial and instrument rating, wouldn't it be cheaper to just rent a Jetstream sim?

All I know is I am quitting my job in 3 months and diving into the deep end.

[510orbust]

We are talking 2 different things jumpy. I am talking the exemp. for needing to take the entire ground school instead of self study. You are talking getting out of all the exams...

As far as the price goes it took me 7000 sterling all in that included my Multi ride (school instructor) Commercial ride (school examiner) IR (caa examiner). You can take all the paperwork down at once to the caa total cost was 200 sterling and was issued my radio licence, commerical licence, and my ir...

let me know when you are over I am down in the gatwick area quite a bit as I have a buddy that is canadian that lives 10 min from the testing centre in gatwick...

any questions or if you want to have a brew let me know


510

COOL

about the jetstream sim, if there is one over here then yes easier to do it that way, read my post on first page regarding sims... for the commercial if you dont use a sim you still have to do all the exams and then do a commercial, multi, ifr ride.......once completed then hand in paperwork to caa


..

PS ANY OTHER INFO CAN BE OBTAINED ON THE CAA WEBSITE AND LOOKING AT LASORS

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS.PDF

FAB

AIRBUS TIME

as far as i know you can just do your ride in the airbus sim as long as you have the 500 hours.....but you will have to do distance learning for the groundschool before writing the exams, you wont get any exemptions

D1.4 JAR-FCL CPL(A)SKILL TEST
REQUIREMENTS
An applicant for a JAR-FCL CPL(A) is required to:
1. Pass the CPL Skill Test with a CAA Flight
Examiner.
• The Skill Test can be completed on either a
single-engine or multi-engine aeroplane. For
the purpose of licence issue the skill test will
remain valid for 12 months.
• Before undertaking the Skill Test, the applicant
shall have passed the associated theoretical
knowledge examination (exceptions may be
made by the CAA for applicants undergoing a
course of integrated flying training), and
completed all of the related flying training
2. Pass the Instrument Rating Skill Test with a
CAA Flight Examiner.
• Applies only to CPL(A)/IR and ATPL(A)
Integrated course candidates.
• The IR(A) Skill Test must be completed on a
multi-engine aeroplane.
• Before undertaking the Skill Test, the applicant
shall have passed the associated theoretical
knowledge examination (exceptions may be
made by the CAA for applicants undergoing a
course of integrated flying training) and
completed all of the related flying training.
DETAILS OF THE CPL(A) SKILL TEST
REQUIREMENTS ARE DETAILED IN APPENDICES
1 AND 2 TO JAR-FCL 1.170
DETAILS OF THE IR(A) SKILL TEST
REQUIREMENTS ARE DETAILED IN APPENDICES
1 AND 2 TO JAR-FCL 1.210
D1.5 CONVERSION OF A NON-JAA
PROFESSIONAL LICENCE TO A
JAR-FCL CPL(A)
A licence issued by a non-JAA State may be
converted to a JAR-FCL licence provided that an
arrangement exists between the JAA and the
non-JAA State. This arrangement shall be
established on the basis of reciprocity of licence
acceptance and shall ensure that an equivalent
level of safety exists between the training and
testing requirements of the JAA and non-JAA
State. Until such arrangements exist, the following
requirements have been agreed by the JAA and are
now incorporated in JAR-FCL 1, paragraph 1.016.
NON-JAA CPL(A) Licence
The holder of a current and valid CPL(A) issued in
accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA State
may be issued with a JAR-FCL CPL(A) providing the
experience requirements of JAR-FCL 1.155(b) and
(c) have been met. Applicants must:
• Hold a valid JAR-FCL Class 1 medical
certificate.
• Undertake CPL(A) theoretical knowledge
instruction as determined by the Head of
Training of an approved training provider and
pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical
knowledge examinations at CPL(A) level.
Applicants who wish to attempt examinations
at a higher level (i.e. ATPL(A) level) must
undertake the full 650 hour course of approved
theoretical knowledge instruction and pass
ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge
examinations at ATPL(A) level.
• Undertake flying training as determined by the
Head of Training of a FTO approved to conduct
CPL(A) modular flying training courses,
sufficient to obtain the pre-entry Form 170A (to
include 5 hours on a complex aeroplane type if
this requirement has not been previously
satisfied) and pass the CPL(A) skill test (in
accordance with Appendices 1 and 2 to
JAR-FCL 1.170) with a CAA Flight Examiner.

[C130Dreamer]

Amen to that FFP - I'm off to Canada in July! :=

[FFP]

C130 Dreamer,

Jealous. Very Jealous. Good luck with the move and all the best. Let us know how you get on. Have to wait a few years till I go . . . .

[CanAV8R]

My two pence,

You may have trouble buying a house in the UK (which I find hard to believe) but try buying one in Calgary working for Westjet (Canada's Easy/Ryan) flying a nice shiny new 737-700 taking home around £1100 pounds a month. Air Canada may be looking for 500 new pilots in the next 2-3 years but there are 5000+ applicants who meet the requirements. Keep in mind they have not hired since 1998-99. Catch my drift?

I came to the UK 18 months ago and have not looked back. My salary went through the roof and I have been checked out on equipment here (left and right seat) that I would have waited years for at home. Over a 15-25 year time period I will come out miles ahead. Yes I will go back but when the house here is paid off, I have padded up a nice pension and the kids are ready to go to uni. Then we sell all, pack up and go back. Fly part time or work for Transport Canada and relax....

Sorry to put out the go to Canada fire but I thought long and hard about it (along with other guys from home) and made the move. All chaps I know that did admit they did it once and would do it again.

I wish all well that go to Canada and say good luck. The market is VERY TOUGH. The weather in winter is nothing like the UK (except Vancouver) which by the way don't even bother thinking you will get a good gig there as all the locals want YVR because of the very reason you do! Houses in the city average 500k+ as well. Any of this registering?

Get a job with a major or large charter operator in the UK. Enjoy the job, save your money and move to Canada a finacially secure and semi retired happy person!!! Then you can enjoy the wonders of the great white nord........

Good luck!!

P.S. Any comments from Canucks here in England welcome!

[FFP]

Lived in both UK and Canada. Flown in both UK and Canada.

Canada wins hands down in my opinion.

My 4 bed detached house with swimming pool in Ontario is the same price as a one bed flat in Oxfordshire. No brainer really.

Maybe my situation is different as I will start receiving a military pension at 38 of about £12,000 a year ($25,000 or so CDN).

As for Air Canada etc, not really appealing to me. Flying long haul at the moment and to be honest, I'd rather be instructing and come home every night to the family. Again, each to their own.

The old saying "The grass is always greener on the other side" certainly holds true. But at least there is grass over in Canada (for some months of the year;) )

Each to their own. But in my opinion, the UK has gone downhill over the last 5 - 10 yrs.

[CanAV8R]

I can't argue with you in all respects. The industry may have slid here in England but the same has happend in Canada. Your pension from the RAF is a big bonus and would help. If someone were to leave the UK with equity in a house here, buy in Canada and have a small mortgage etc then yes it could be a good move. My comments were more directed at the less experienced types and those who owed some silly amount of £££ fro their licence. Easier to start here and go there later in life....

I started in Canada and am now in the UK. Lifestyle better in Canada I suppose but the job prospects are not good. Sterling is a good currency to make and save. I will come home but being 30 now I have some work to do first.

Again all the canucks I know who fly in England (From 1 year up to 15) all say that the move they made was for the best. I agree but as you say each to his own.

Enjoy southern ontario! Do yourself a favour and move to BC! That is Canada!

[510orbust]

Canada is a great place, and great for raising children......

all the best to the guys that are moving over that way......

but no matter what the locals tell you after hearing your accent, yellow snow is not good for you...

510

[CanAV8R]

Heh 510.....

How long you been here in England? I agree that Canada is a great place. Plus the kid thing is dead right. But we all have friends struggling in Canada with aviation so that one is clear. A tough market no matter how good things get.

You planning on staying? Enjoy the european corporate thing?

I'm glad I came over.......Can always go home and will one day.

Cheers..

Yellow snow is ok if someone spilled their beeeeeeer...........

[510orbust]

Been here a year now, was corporate in canada and now that all the conversion stuff is complete I am looking for work....I am up north just outside of manchester, moved from vancouver.

Lots of buddies struggling over there in canada, and they all said if they could they would be moving this way, but no right of abode so they have to make do//

510

not looking for work any more ;)

[aileron]

Well...............

I left Canada when I was 26.

In the UK.........B757 Capt when i was 30. Im 36 now. Manchester based 767 Capt.

Good luck to anyone coming to the UK. A bit of luck and youll be sitting pretty in a few years.

Dont let anyone put you off, its not about the cost of a burger.

Yes Canada's 'nice'. Im as much Canadian as I am British. Im not talking countries Im talking careers!

HOWEVER, as long as guys are willing to pay for their own type ratings, fly for free, parker pen their experience, and be desperate enough to work for companies like Jetsgo, the UK is definately the place to be!

Cheers

Oh and did I mention how much I like the women and beer over here? :E

[Random Electron]

In case any of you Canadian chaps were wondering if it would be worth all the blood, sweat and tears, here are the payscales of my own employer.

Word is that we will recruit over 40 first officers for the B757 or A320 fleet in the autumn (sorry, fall).

Why do we need so many recruits?

Because our Canadian programe has gone silly, taken us all by surprise.

http://www.thomascookpilots.com/salaries.asp

Good luck guys, hope to fly with a few of you soon.

[SpiralDive]

Ya, I'm in the same boat as a lot of you guys. There's no comparing the aviation scene over here compared with back home, I was flying a decent jet here with 300 hours, getting paid more than a starting Air Canada FO.

Still, its a big trade off in quality of living, moving from the west coast to the east midlands and probably like everybody that's made the move I could imagine myself heading back one day with a few £s in the back pocket.

Any of you guys keeping your Canadian ATPLs current, and what's involved in that? Is your yearly check ride here enough or would you have to do another one for Transport Canada?

Cheers! (damn, there's me sounding english again)

[CanAV8R]

Wow a string of Canucks in blighty. I am with the spotty M clan and enjoying it. Nice to see a few of the lads over here. For any of you that are getting frustrated back home look to the UK if you can work in Europe. Tons of work for experienced pilots. As an example you can go direct entry skipper on a Dash Q400 with an ATPL, and BA/Virgin plus another dozen or so are recruiting like mad.

I miss home don't get me wrong but as far as I am concerned as a west coaster...........living in TO etc or living in London is all the same! I was not a happy camper my first 6 months here but been almost 2 years now and my feelings have changed. I love it.

Any of you chaps in the Midlands leave me a PM.

Enjoy...

[doo]

I have tended to go home and do a ride to keep the TC ATPL alive, It used to be current for 2 yrs, and then if you did a ride before 4yrs expired then there was no need to do the written again.
Last communication with TC on the issue around 3 yrs ago there was an exemption for the written if out of the window if you could produce the last LPC/OPC from your co training dept.
But worth a check with TC as things may have changed.
Still £500 and your are current back home again.

[SpiralDive]

Cool, thanks guys. Guess I'll give TC a call next time I'm home and see what they say. It would be nice if the LPC here counted for keeping both current.

CanAV8Vr: blighty, lads and chaps eh? Think you need to get back home for a break and get that out of the system :)

Take it easy,

[R8TED THRUST]

Good day,

I was just wondering the process involved in converting a Canadian ATPL to that of the CAA/JAA as I have recently been called to interview with one of Europes LCC's. As for my experience I am a B-737 Captain with over 6000 hrs. as for converting would it involve the full process ie 14 examinations or are there waivers? I know that a Sim Check on the B737 would be required.

Any insight to this would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
R8ted

[CanAV8R]

If you have over 1000 (could be 1500) PIC on the 737 you are exempt from most of the process. 2 exams which include air law and I think human factors. You will need a JAA medical (cheaper and easier with a Canadian Cat 1) and a ride on a JAA reg 737. Presto you are done.

If you are looking at Ryan I would ask them to pay for all of the above and also play hard ball on terms and conditions as they are very very short of captains. Now how many major airlines in Canada allow for negotiations? Again you are in the drivers seat.

Good luck.

P.S. If you are looking at leaving WJ or something similar in Canada know this. It will not be the same. You will work harder (the max in the UK is 900 hours a year) and you will do this. On the flip side you will make twice the cake and get a wide variety of base choice all over Europe.

[R8TED THRUST]

Dear CanAv8R,

Thank you very much for your reply! This is kind of what I have been anticipating. I realize that I will fly more but all being said the Money should be much better in my belief! As for any one who will jump on me saying that the cost of living is more in the EU I realize this as I have allready flown throughout Europe on a Canadian validation!

As for the JAA info thank you!

Cheers

stay R8ted

[510orbust]

Since I started this thread over a year ago and now that everything is completed I thought I would give my final views on the entire process.

The exams can be alot of work depending on which study material you use. Looking back I probably could have completed them alot faster if I had known about Bristol online question bank as they are up to date. I moved over to the UK lived with family and studied. All exams were complete in 5 months.

The flight portion consisting of a multi engine ride, IFR ride, and commerical ride took just over a month, mostly due to weather. I started looking for a flight school in Jan and couldnt start flying until the end of Feb. Not like the Canadian schools where you call up and say hey I want to come in Monday and start my IFR.
The flight portion cost 7000 sterling which is alot of money when I already had an ATPL with over 4000 hours but they have a minimum conversion time for the IFR of 10 hours in the aircraft and light twins here cost an arm and a leg not to mention the examiner fee of over 1400 canadian.

I finished everything in April and had my frozen ATPL in hand at the end of April and thats when I really started looking for work. Frozen ATPL because I didnt have a type rating on my licence.

I turned down two jobs, one on a 737 800 pay your own rating, and another job flying cargo on a very big turbo prop. I just accepted an offer of employment with the orig carrier I had set my sites on and couldnt be more relieved that all the hard work has paid off.

The entire process has cost me 20 000 canadian roughly, as well as not earning a full time wage.


My terms and conditions are as follows for my new employer..

6 weeks holidays to start a year, 2 weeks bookable in the summer
Private medical plan/dental plan
Company retirement plan of 7.5 percent for 5 years then up to 22 percent they contribute, I put in 8 percent
Rostered monthly blocks that cannot be changed
Ability to sell a day off and work for 800 canadian a day
starting salary of 100 000 canadian as a first officer
home every night
Loss of licence cover
lap top issued updated as soon as you hit the crew room
ability to pre book days off a year in advance or 7 days in advance in case last minute plans come up.

Was it worth it for me, yes very much so. Money wise I will be making over double of what I could have made in Canada in less then half the time. with cost of living comparable to vancouver. Three extra weeks of paid vacation to start, roster stability and home every night.

I know of other people that have done the same conversion process from Canada and are all sitting pretty.

Its not a case of, can you afford to do it, its a case of can you afford not too..

For anyone contemplating it, just send me a private message and I will help out any way I can....

Good luck to all in the great white north, I will miss the mountains and the ocean, but I can retire back to canada much earlier than if I had stayed there and with my holidays I can visit once every other month if desired


510

[blue_side_up]

Agree absolutely with 510orbust.

Did my conversion from TC-JAR about 4yrs ago. (Was UK ATPL back then tho...). Cost was about the same.

Would rather be living in Canada, no doubts about that. But the UK is definitely not so bad. Miss the west coast though.

Got onto some very heavy metal in the UK. Career prospects are far better in Europe than back at home. Pay is vastly higher too, but so is cost of living. I still think you come out further ahead though.

Lots of us Canucks doing the same thing it seems, I guess many of us have dual citizenship. The Brits seem a little amused by us in fact. Funny accents, but on the whole they seem to find us quite acceptable, after all, we're not dreaded Yanks. :p

Good luck to any other Canucks who go for it. We will slowly take over the 'motherland' (Britain) yet! :p

[Random Electron]

Well done, 510orbust.

You Canadians fit in well here in the UK, and you must have realised already that you are all generally very well liked. Happy flying!

[510orbust]

thanks bud

510

[doo]

Just remember-when asked what part of America are you from answer:
in England; what part of France are you from,
in Scotland ; what part of England are you from.

[lowspeedaluminium]

I hold a Canadian ATPL with lots of Beech 1900 time, but apparently that doesnt count as a multi-pilot aircraft in JAR-land, though I realise it would count for an MCC credit.

In this case, it looks as though the CPL , IR and Mult-Eng conversions are required along with the 14 written exams..

-Do the CPL / Multi / IR training and skills tests have to be performed in the UK, or is it possible to do this training in Canada or the USA with a JAA approved school?? (i.e: save a few $$)

-If it's not possible to do the training and flight (skills) testing in North America, then which flight schools in the UK are recommeded for the conversion requirements (flight portion)? - I'll be taking the BGS distance learning for the written exams.

-Any updates from the Canucks that have gone through the conversion process would be appreciated:ok:

cheers guys

[CanAV8R]

The Brits classify the 1900 as a light twin. In the same leauge as an Otter or King Air. They do however allow people with time on A/C with 2 crew for 'Operational Requirements' an MCC exemption. This will save you a couple of grand and when you do finish all the bits, get a multi pilot A/C etc, you will be granted a full ATPL. Advantage? Yes as you can act as the captain from day one and their are plenty of direct entry command jobs here in turboprops and small jets. I know cuz thats what I did.
The IR test must be done in the UK/Europe and the rest can be done in the US. I would recommend Atlantic Flight Training in Coventry. Good school, nice people and they have experience converting people. Give them a buzz and talk to the boss. His name is Matt.
The job market is sizzling at the moment. In 2.5 years I have gone from big turbo skipper, to 757 at a big charter airline and now BA.
Good Luck.