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Old 14th Apr 2004, 10:24
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UK Conversion

I am a Canadian ATPL holder and I have just started the conversions to the UK ATPL....I just finished writing six exams here, so if there are any Canucks that are not sure how to go about it let me know and I will gladly give you all the info I have.....

510
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Old 14th Apr 2004, 14:27
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Hi 510.

I'm curious about the process. I started a thread in the "questions" forum above. I will have my CDN ATPL signed off very soon. My wife was born in the UK and maintains a UK passport but is now a CDN citizen. We are considering going there in the future. So far finding the process daunting.
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Old 15th Apr 2004, 19:38
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UK ATPL

510

I looked into the conversion in the fall, but wanted to wait to and ensure I had the finances in order.

Did you self-study, or use a school. If you have some course material perhaps you may be willing to sell them...

Let me know
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Old 5th May 2004, 15:30
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UK

The process only seems daunting but if you are just getting your ATP signed off I will take it you dont have 500 hours on a 2 crew aircraft. In this case you will have to do the ground school with a british based company, 2 that specialize in it are oxford and bristol. Give them a call and they can guide you in the right direction.

As far as selling my stuff, I am moving to the UK end of this month to go full time at it so I need all my books at the moment.

regards

510
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Old 5th May 2004, 15:45
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510, I'm confused. Is it 500 multi-crew or 1500 multi-crew?
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Old 6th May 2004, 20:51
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510,

I don't know. I have the Canadian ATPL with a little over 4000 hours, of which 3500 hrs is in M/E turbine 2 crew airplanes, They (caa) still said I needed to write the exams (i think 14 in total)and then do a ride. They did however suggest I could do the ride on the sim, although I really don't know how this would help.

I looked at the Bristol course and it seems the way to go. A couple of friends over their said it was also well regarded.

How much do you figure the conversion will cost you?
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Old 8th May 2004, 18:01
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I just finished writing the 14 UK JAA ATPL Exams , and passed all on the first attempt, now I`m real glad I`ll never have to do that again !
If you have any specific questions , I`d be glad to try and help.
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Old 8th May 2004, 18:48
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Hi there,

Here is something that I wrote for someone else and edited that may be of help to some of you?

I was working in the USA, I obtained my FAA ATPL and then got the Canadian one. The knowledge that you have obtained from your Canadian ATPL will help you, the JAA exam are not any harder just a longer course of the same material.

The Medical for initial issue is only able to be done in the UK at Gatwick from my understanding, the advantage is that you will not need it to take the exams I did not do mine until I had finished the exams I then used one of my other class1 (Canadian)medicals to get a discount on the JAA one.

For starting the Ground School you will have to sign up with a school though to do the distance learning, it is not like TC or FAA where you can just do the course on your own. You have to be signed up through a school. If you hold an ICAO ATPL you will not have to do the 650hrs GS and can take the exams as soon as the school signs you off.

If you have a CPL you will have to do some of the GS The only difference would be that you would have to do a minimum of 650hrs on the course which is accomplished by doing homework and sending it in.

Another thing to look at is that there are schools in the US in Florida that you can do the course through and they even I believe have an exam site. So you will not need to travel all the way to the UK, which with the way the dollar is would be a good thing.

Other things to look into are which books to use etc. Also whether you can get the books second hand or not, feedback is another thing to look at the Bristol & Oxford are deemed to be the best.

The JAA ATPL will not be issued until you have 1500hrs and other requirements the hardest of which is the 500hrs multi-crew. What they deem as Multi-crew can be found at the CAA web site for example the do not count a B1900 as multi-crew as it can be flown single pilot.

So you need a minimum number of hours to start the course what they call a Modular student this will be a PPL and 100hrs I believe.

As an Canadian or FAA CPL/ATPL holder you should meet all the requirements to start the ATPL knowledge exams.

The way that I did mine was take 14 exams, take medical, go to US and do CPL flight tests (Was given an hour discount). This can be issued by the head of training.

I would then come back to the UK do the IFR test (10hrs sim, 5hrs flight) then if I did not have the Multi-Crew Cooperation course (MCC) or required hrs would do the MCC course. The MCC is the part where you need the 500 hrs in Multi-crew aircraft.

The medical you will need is class1, if you hold a Canadian or FAA should not be a big issue and once you have the initial medical done in Gatwick you will be able to get your medical renewed at a suitable medical person in the Canada or US.

If you are doing it over time like I am you will have 3 years to do the Instrument rating, if not you will have to re-do the exams.

Costs: Each exam 52GBP so 14 exams. 728GBP
Distance learning Course approx 2000GBP
Flight Test fee approx 600GBP
Licence Issue fee approx 200GBP
Radio Licence: You should be able to get this free if you send in your Canadian licence with your licence application.

The prices were correct at the time I did mine. The best place to look is at the CAA web site and also look at LASORS (Similiar to the FAR/AIM and Canadian AIP)

Well if you need any other info feel free to mail me, I also have the Oxford books and feedback for sale.

Good luck and safe flying

-273
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Old 13th May 2004, 16:00
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hi guys,
just a quick q?at what point does one not have to do the 14 exams to convert.?e,g... would it be if the hours you have qualify you for unfrozen jaa atpl?just a thought.i too have the canadian one and would like to convert it with the view of moving to the uk.
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Old 13th May 2004, 16:21
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Hey there,

If you have an ICAO PPL with 100hrs or above I believe and could be wrong here you can start whenever you want. See above post for ins and outs on what you get relieved from.

When you do the exams you will have a period of time in which to complete them all, think it is 18months. So you can not do them over a 5 year period.

You will also have to have completed the IR within 3 years of the exams. Otherwise you have to take them all again.

This will give you some idea of things:

www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/lasors.pdf (ooo forgot it is a 4.8Mb file)


-273
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Old 15th May 2004, 01:11
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I was told that you require 3000 hrs + P1 on a/c in excess of 30 tons , still have to write air law and hp&l.
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Old 15th May 2004, 10:00
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GTS atpls the best

Forget about the others GTS are part of PTC who are linked to Moncton. I've been to them all and GTS has by far the best training at the most reasonable price. Plus the most experienced instructors.
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Old 16th May 2004, 11:35
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Hi fella's,

I finished my conversion a while back and am now working in the UK. Much hard work and some cash but the best move of my career so far. The job market is picking up and fast with BA and Virgin leading the charge. This time next year I think everyone will be recruiting and if you have 1500 hour plus with turbo time you will get a job. For you lower time chaps things will be good as well.

PM me for further info.

Cheers
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Old 24th May 2004, 11:01
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hi guys,

I moved over a few months ago to convert my ATPL to the JAA. I did my studying through Oxford and found them very good. I now have 35 CVs in the mail and am hoping this has all been worth while.
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Old 1st Jun 2005, 08:59
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conversion

sorry for the delay...ok here is what you have to do for the conversion

most guys have to do the 14 exams unless you have command heavy time airbus 747 type stuff. lear, challenger command does not count as its not over the (tonnage ) they deem makes you excempt.

each exam is now 55 sterling, write in glasgow if you can if not london it is, nothing manchester way. 14 exams complete in 6 sittings 4 attempts at each exam ( i had both bristol and oxford books- i recommend bristol more condensed plus online exams very good) but i wouldnt recommend flying there, too expensive and they treated me like i had 250 hours no offence to the low hour guys I was there once, but they quoted something like 25 hours for my ir conversion and 15 hours for my commercial even after telling them my experience level.....

once the 14 are done its time for the flying....

IR conversion 15 hours - 10 aircraft, 5 simulator ///get ready for dead reconing and no radar control at lower altitudes. plus they can fail you if you go direct a beacon and that beacon is only good for 15 miles and you are 20 miles out with a good signal and ident!!!!! how dead reconing is more reliable then a good signal and everything making sense I dont know but when in Rome.......

multi engine ride - 1 hour then flight test (usually with school examiner)

commercial ride - hours as required took me 3.5 then the ride not like the canadian, i did mine in a twin consisted of a nav leg, diversion at any altitude, no 500 feet agl diversion here so its easy 3 stalls, limited panel turns and recovery from unusual attitudes ( no closing eyes or head in crotch). back to the circuit for a flapless, single engine approach and overshoot circle to land and one normal circuit....... They will also take you through a MATZ if at all able for a clearance and radio work

(multi/ifr/commercial times all based on your level of experience could take more or less but the 15 hours for the IFR (ir here) is manditory you cant do less then that)

(note must do a multi engine written exam at your school as well its free of charge)

radio exam- 40 sterling, consists of a radio simulator 2 hours long with a guy marking you as a plane moves across the screen

medical based on your canadian cat 1 - 250 sterling, 500 otherwise

total flying all in 7000 sterling
they charge 635 sterling just for the caa examiner for the ir skills test so for the flight test you are looking at 1000 sterling.

i hope that clarifies things, total in roughly 20 000 canadian

wages here are nearly double to canada when you secure a job, i dont tend to listen to ppruners much as alot complain, as in canada the industry here is what you make of it......

ps above post incorrect about the medical...

if you have a canadian cat 1 medical you MUST do the medical here in the UK at gatwick with the caa the first time but its 250 sterling instead of the 500 sterling. I WOULD ADVISE DOING THE MEDICAL BEFORE THE EXAMS AS ITS A LITTLE TOUGHER, NO POINT FINDING OUT YOU FAIL THE HIGH FLOW TEST WHICH WE DONT HAVE TO DO AND NOT BEING ABLE TO GET A CAT 1

but remember you need a right of abode here or a eu passport, i know its common sense but the younger guys may not.....

as far as doing your IR/commercial ride in a simulator...if the sim of choice is in the UK you are in luck if its not, say the US well they dont tend to send people over for a private individual and the costs were around 1300 sterling a day for the examiner plus airfare hotel and everything else.......

any canadians up manchester way send me a message\!!!!!

Last edited by 510orbust; 1st Jun 2005 at 09:49.
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Old 1st Jun 2005, 14:21
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Jeez, all you guys leaving Canada to come here and I'm trying to escape to get there .. . . . . !

I would agree that the market over here is picking up, but beware. The cost of living is also far higher, property prices in the UK are outside of the average wage bracket (in fact I earn £40,000 and cannot afford a house in Oxfordshire) and tax / NI is high. Having lived in both Canada and the UK, the people are nicer in Canada, it's a better quality of life and I know which I prefer. The grass may seem greener . . . . .. . .

Have no doubt that anyone moving over here has done their research and will have valid reasons but just wanted to add my 2 pence worth .. . .

Good luck with the conversions
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Old 2nd Jun 2005, 02:34
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510:


The other guy said they just handed him a radio license, are you sure you needed to pay?

What is a MATZ?

And lastly, how do they expect you to know the reliable signal distance from an NDB?

I'm writing the first 7 next month in Gatwick.

I only have about 300 hours on "multi-crew" aircraft but I have thousands on aircraft flown as multi-crew. (Be1900, B200, Be99) Has anyone here had to apply for that exemption, and is it pretty much automatic?

I heard one guy was able to get a letter from the CAA which he could hand to potential employers which basically said he had done his exams, but simply needed a CAA flight test to sign him off. Anyone else heard of this?

Cheers.
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Old 2nd Jun 2005, 09:29
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you are exempt

good day,

with your time on the kingair and 1900 you will qualify no problem for the exemption because I am pretty sure that your ops spec listed that those aircraft were flown 2 crew. My friends from Sweden that just finished the conversions all had twin otter time so a Kingair is no different. On the form you fill in for the exams there is an exemption box, just tick it, you dont have to send anything in or ask them. You will also get your Multi crew signed off, all you have to do for that is when you are in Gatwick give them your log books some sterling and they will mail it all back to you within a couple of days...across the hall is the medical office go in there and book or do it on the phone as the waiting list can be up to a month.....

As far as the radio licence goes, I asked the radio examiner, and also the flight school and legally with canucks you must do the radio licence exam. To be honest its not a bad idea as radio procedures here are quite a bit different to canada and its a good way to get familiar with the airspace and how to make certain calls when entering a MATZ OR REQUESTING A LARS..

a matz is military air traffic zone with the radar surv. radiating outward from the airport for 30 nm a Lars is low airspace radar survelliance. When inside these you can either get a RIS or get a RAS..... and funny enough in air law you learn nothing about these just all about ICAO and the different annex. (BS)

Even though I paid the 40 something sterling for the radio licence and did the radio simulator exam (2 hours) the debriefing from the guy was great and I learned so much about UK airspace again something that airlaw doesnt teach you, go figure....

So much is different here, even what special VFR is, thats where this radio test comes in handy....special vfr allows you to enter class a airspace around an aerodrome, only one in the UK right now is LHR...class a here is nothing like a in canada so try and forget all the canadian stuff for now..expecially standard pressure regions and alt setting regions, altimeters change here from altitudes to flight levels around 3000 ft.

As far as the effective range of an NDB, I posed that question to my instructor, I said you are now flying in Londons airspace tracking too a beacon with a good signal, needle pointing as it should how would you know you are out of range, his reply, he wouldnt but this is the training world and this is what you must know up here...As I said when in Rome!!!!!!!

510

ps- that letter you are talking about is for the multi crew exemption. You will come here with a canadian ATPL, when you are finished your exams and your flight training and hand everything into the CAA you will come out with a UK COMMERCIAL LICENCE not a UK ATPL. To get an ATPL in this country you must have a type rating on a multi crew airplane. So when you get your first job, you hand in this exemption to your employer, you do your type training, pass your ride go to the CAA hand them nearly 200 sterling and they issue you another plastic folder with an ATPL licence....

Last edited by 510orbust; 2nd Jun 2005 at 09:55.
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Old 2nd Jun 2005, 15:08
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"I was told that you require 3000 hrs + P1 on a/c in excess of 30 tons , still have to write air law and hp&l."

It looks like it's 3000 hours on A/C greater than 30000 tons, of which only 1500 is required to be PIC to get the exemption.
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Old 2nd Jun 2005, 15:41
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Hi, I also expect to start the distance ATPL ground school in the Uk in few weeks and then convert my Canadian CPL to JAR, could you please give me some infos regarding my situation:

I have 250 hours TT with the A320 type rating and I am waiting for a 500 hours F/O line training on the airbus that I should start in Asia next October.
So I was wondering if I could validate the JAR CPL/IR on the A320 simulator after my 500 hours multi-crew experience without an ATPL or do I have to pass a flight test on single engine because I have less than 1500 hrs?

Thanks
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