Uniforms for NATS STAFF ??

[Ayr_Man]

Management at Scottish are floating the idea of a "dress code" for staff at work.
Two overworked SATCO's have been tasked to set up a working group to have us all wearing suits, ties, etc. presumably Mon- Fri. ( or Mon-Thursday if you are a brainwashed type who dresses down on Friday).
I beleive this will be throughout NATS ,------- and this is not a wind up folks!
:DKilts would be a good option for us Jocks @ Scottish Centre, and when asked if anything is worn under the kilt we could reply "No sir , its all in perfectly good working order" (old ones are the best eh?)


Considering NATS is cash strapped, struggling with Swanwick, and short staffed , you have to wonder at this pathetic mentality!

Any comments guys and gals?

[Scott Voigt]

Shoot, what is wrong with a dress code??? We have one in the states... Your shirt must have a collar ( T-shirts have one. ) and must be clean. No gym clothing except on midnight shifts and shorts must not be frayed. Works rather nicely <G>... That in a nutshell is our dress code.

regards

Scott

[1261]

Scott, your dress code would cause chaos for Ayr_Man and his mates at Scottish Centre. :)

[BALIX]

Scott, your dress code would cause chaos for Ayr_Man and his mates at Scottish Centre

Whaddya mean? I've never seen anyone at ScACC in frayed shorts ;)

[Capt H Peacock]

It's the kilts that would worry me.:uhoh:

[DC10RealMan]

I might be reading too much into this or giving "the management" to much credit for being subtle, but at the moment we can dress how we like ie: shirt and tie, or shorts and stylish Hawaiian shirts if we so chose whatever suits our personality and reinforces our individualism. In the long term NATS wants its staff to conform and to do as they are told irrespective of individuals personal preferances, what better way to break down the individual and manipulate them to conform than to make them wear a uniform to submerge their personality. Some of us are beyond redemption, but it works with students at the college and the dress code can be extended to their operational units and they would not even notice. I may be thought of as paranoid, but it works very well in the military!!!

[Bright-Ling]

It's all true.

I saw a memo at work yesterday and it seems likely to happen.

Apparantly, our Prospect rep has already put forward proposals that we will get a uniform allowance.

The figures I heard were £3444pa for ATCO 2's and £2521 for ATCO 3's. Heathrow are likely to get an additional Inner Airport Clothing allowance so that they can continue to use the Duty free shops.

ATCO 1 GS's are likely to be the real winners. Up to £4980pa depending on their previous dress sense. £4980 is a lot of tweed.

The so-called "trendy" young-uns like Point 7 are expected to have to repay anything up to £900. They are that cool. Special cases will be heard for those who are "fashion challenged". Halo comes to mind.

B-L

[Eira]

The only dress code we require in our profession is that we are clean and tidy.
That can mean Jeans and t-shirts, suit and ties.
We are not there as a public face we sit anonymously in front of our radar screens and that is how we like it.
Personal hygiene should be our only consideration when we dress each day.
Moral is so damn low at the moment I cannot truly believe they would waste effort on such a trivial item :mad:

[BALIX]

I hope that Prospect is going to tell management to sod off over this issue. Personally I find it a bit pathetic that ab initio trainees have to wear a collar and tie right up until their first validation. Not only are they under pressure to perform, they have to feel hot and stuffy as well. Once they have that important bit of paper, it gives them both the opportunity to perform acts of gross air traffic control and dress like tramps like the rest of us.

The last time I wore a tie to work was for a validation board in 1990 and that was under sufference.

[DC10RealMan]

I have not seen the proposal, is this just for airport staff or for all staff including ATC centres where the public are not allowed. Why are the more senior personnel getting larger allowances?, surely clothes cost the same for everyone. If we are taking about uniforms will air traffic controllers have more gold braid and big wings on their chests to differentiate themselves from other members of staff, although I am sure that there are some egos out there who would love that!!!.

[Arkady]

The uniform/dress code idea gets floated every few years and then dies a natural death as reality sinks in. When the CAA in Australia became a "Government Business Enterprise" a corporate uniform was proposed and opinion was sought. The staff were overwhelmingly against the idea, most on principle and the rest because they knew it would be inflammatory and ultimately unenforceable. Apart from one grizzled old Ops Controller, who was all for the idea, with one condition - all staff should have a uniform sporting five gold bars.

[Wee Jock]

We could all just come into work starkers then NATS could cut our salaries as we wouldn't have to buy any clothes for work at all.........I might just e-mail that in as an idea to save money.



;) ;) ;) :mad:

[weselfluren]

Can just see the headline - "Near miss due to excessive Kipper Tie covering screen".........;) (no offence Birmingham Tower!)

Do some of these management bods think before they make unrealistic/unpopular proposals? Are they on some performance targets to introduce new measures, hence forgetting the importance of Staff morale etc. when ploughing ahead with this weeks "good idea".:uhoh:

Glad to hear that once I get close to getting into Hurn (come on HR, you can do it!), I won't have to discard my nice comfy suits, nor will I be having to get used to a completely new style of management. Any ex-NHS lot in Nats management then?:E

Roll on 2005,2006,2007 or whenever it might be..............:{

[PPRuNe Radar]

52xmax

Todays management cuture

Surely you mean coutture ?? :p

This has been the worst spell in ATC in the UK for sometime

Oh no, I've seen much worse spelling than this before !!! :}

[Connex]

Clothing allowance to be used on “Company-style” threads? – won’t work, especially if different amounts are paid to different grades. The moment any new concept is proposed, but with differing levels of renumeration between grades, then the rumblings of discontent start up across the board. Always has done – always will.

Company-issued uniform would be a genuinely better option. Saves wear and tear on your own stuff; don’t need to think what to wear each day – might even get dry cleaning vouchers as well! And hopefully we can all be mature enough about it not to squabble over who get's the gold braid and badges, and who doesn't!

:ok:

[radar707]

I think it's actually "Couture"

[Jerricho]

Uh oh........been rumbled.

Dress code, yeah right. We can't sort out ATC delays, couldn't open a "state of the art" centre on time, morale in tatters, halk of Manchester applying to go to Canada............but we're all goning to look very professional!

[BEXIL160]

We've been here before folks.....

There was a cretin, sorry, certain watch manager at LATCC who one day in the not too distant past took exeption to the "dress" of some of his ATCOs and ATSAs (ok they weren't all wearing dresses, but you get the idea:rolleyes: )

Anyway, he decides to put out a note saying that all male staff were to wear a "collar and tie" and smart trousers (not sure what he insisted for the ladies: Dresses?:confused: )

Next day said staff turn up..... wearing the most wonderful collection of colourful Hawian shirts, shorts and other assorted beachwear. (ok, so some wore jeans)

Notice removed. Manager concerned not visible to staff for a few days.

Anyway, two more things come to mind.

1) Didn't the staff at EGNT have uniforms once? I recall a visit there and they all had airline style shirts and black trousers.

2) Since NATS is now part owned by TAG they must have access to a plentiful supply of uniforms.... BAW / BMI / BAL / Easy.... Anyone for an Orange Sweatshirt? No? I thought not.

The whole thing is a bad idea IMHO. Airlines staff all have uniforms depending on their function. WHY? Because they are in the public eye and generate an "Image" for the airline. We aren't (and don't want to be).

Not all professional pilots wear a "uniform" either. Durring flight testing of the B777, shown on CH4 at length, the test pilots and engineers wore Polo shirts and jeans. Comfortable atire for the job they were doing. The same should be true for ATCOs. We know what is comfortable atire for us personally, so let us decide

There you go..... 500 up!

rgds BEX

[LostThePicture]

BALIX said:
Personally I find it a bit pathetic that ab initio trainees have to wear a collar and tie right up until their first validation. :uhoh: :eek: REALLY? Is that just a ScOACC thing? Not much of that happens at LACC! Actually, on second thoughts, I believe MACC have the same code. But that's only because of certain objectionable members of the training department. :yuk: :mad:

Good to see a unanimous feeling of disgust at such a w@nk proposal. Management should concentrate on the more important things, such as avoiding a mutiny by members of Manchester ACC.

Maybe it's because "management" feel that the strength of ill-will towards them is such that they don't want to be identified by their shirt-and-tie attire. Maybe they want to blend in. But as we're not the customer-facing ones, we should be allowed to wear what we please; whatever makes us most comfortable and prepared for the task of separating aeroplanes.

LTP

[PPRuNe Radar]

I think it's actually "Couture"

Also seen it in a dictionary as ''coture''. I think we should give the casting vote to a Frenchman :)

Est là-bas Français dans la maison s'il vous plait ?? Merci mon amis.

[chiglet]

My French ain't brilliant,but should that not be "Merci mes amis :rolleyes:
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[safetyisourtoppriority]

What a hilarious post....mainly because of the reactions!!

Reminds me of the time that I did a spoof memo about a new dress code in NATS to all at the airport I worked at whilst at a neighbouring airport my mole had planted the same memo....indignant ATCO gets on the direct line to said airport to check that it wasn't a wind-up and believes it because other airport had the same memo!

Genius!!!

Who said ATC wasn't fun any more?

Probably can't use this one again for another ten years but well worth it when it happens.

Let's charge everyone £1 a day for wearing jeans (it works once a year) and NATS will be awash with money.

Also, let's put "good sense of humour" down as an entry requirement and we'll lose all these dour (Scottish for sad, grumpy, unwashed moaners) that inflict each unit.

Boy, I'm just full of good ideas tonight.

[Jerricho]

Actually, I heard several comments at LTCC today that for the "Jeans for Genes" day people were going to wear shirt and tie, just for something different.

I'll have to go out and buy one.

[rodan]

Perhaps to go with your nice new uniforms you could have a plastic name badge, like they do in McDonalds? You could have a gold star under your name for each validation you hold! In fact, this could tie in to the new commercial ethos at NATS. Imagine:

'BAW123, London Control, would you like to Go Direct for only 30p more?' :}

[Lon More]

Shades of the 1960s... summer is now officially here , you may remove your ties and roll up your shirtsleeves - LATCC 1968

One of the ATCAs on the edge lit boards complained that the dust and grease was damaging his clothing and that he wanted a clothing allowance. Management met him halfway; they gave him one of the brown storeman's coats

[bagpuss lives]

From a purely sexist-pig and stereotypical male point of view I applaud any decision made to put females into uniform wholeheartedly.

[mainecoon]

nite

very broad statement does that include all the ladies on the watch?:ouch:

[BALIX]

REALLY? Is that just a ScOACC thing? Not much of that happens at LACC! Actually, on second thoughts, I believe MACC have the same code. But that's only because of certain objectionable members of the training department.

Don't know if it as a ScOACC thing or not but it happens. Well, at least during office hours - trainees are as scruffy as the rest of us on nights and at weekends.

I presume it is down to our training department as ab initios 'belong' to them, not the watch, until they become valid. Our head of training likes things neat and tidy, at least in the visual sense. Some might say that the training section itself is something of an untidy mess but that is a different argument.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Keep it up guys and girls ..... ''Illegitimi non carborundum''

[niknak]

WeeJock

I know several people who say theyve seen you naked, and they claim it wasn't nice................:p

[halo]

soooooooooooooooooo not gonna happen


And I believe the punk rock look is in :)

[63000 Triple Zilch]

From the staff member whose name for the last 20 years has been synonemous with an individual style of dress at work I can only feel that no good will come of this!!!!!!!!! I am NOT arriving at work respectfully dressed for any management edict. Maybe my Aunt Sally would approve but I don't!!

[bagpuss lives]

mainecoon - well, not the watch particularly. It was just a general and, to be honest, a very very sweeping statement. You would expect nothing less from me :D

It only includes the 100% single and young ladies - is that any better? :D

Jesus, I'll be telling Bernard Manning jokes next.

[Eira]

Well I'm female, single , blonde and leggy, but unfortunately in my 30s so i probably don't count ;)
What uniform did you have in mind niteflite , hope nothing like the hooters one :p

[Wee Jock]

niknak, were they boys or girls? I do turn up at work fully-clothed (including my headset) occasionally, but don't tell my Mum because she thinks I'm a piano-player in a brothel. She'd be sooooooooooo ashamed I'm an atco.

:ok: :) :cool: :p

[The Fat Controller]

Sod the dress code, I want trees like LACC, they will go nicely with the green consoles !
And to my WM, it was not me that started this thread !

[bagpuss lives]

Eira - I'm not really a sexist, Bernard Manning-esque and chauvinistic pig.....honest!!! :)

And by the way - age is just a number.

It means nothing ;)

[The Truth]

Picking up on the Airline Group has access to loadsa uniforms themes.....

How about nice orange shirts (with collars of course!) with BA EASY VIRGIN embroidered in bold across the front :D :D

Seriously, a previous GM tried to introduce a "Dress code" at my unit with the predictable result - tatty jeans and T shirts and the idea was quietly forgotten...


[Edited for atrocious spelling]

[PH-UKU]

I don't feel inclined to take sartorial elegance lessons from someone who's idea of style is a 1970s jaiket ! I wanna be relaxed, it helps me work better. If you don't like it ... sack me :cool:

If your reading this, NATS ....... yer arse is ooot the windae !:p
Try and sort some of the real problems, like tiny radar screens, and the bleedin change machines - now that would improve morale.

No ties on me.

[Scott Voigt]

Reminds me of the time back in the mid 70's while I was still in the Navy. Opening of new approach control, so Commander wants to have everyone looking spiffy for the tourists <G>. All the military folks in full dress uniform working traffic. The civilians all ordered to wear suits. Bernie, one of our more colorfull civilian controllers, asks, suit huh? Commander says YES! You need to be in a tie Bernie. Hmmmmmmm, ok Commander, ANYTHING for you <G>...

The day arrives and Bernie shows up in a Tux with ruffle shirt. Everything pressed to perfection and also wearing a nice and newly washed and bright white pair of boat sneakers <G>. We were all in stiches. The Commander initially was NOT happy. This man had NO humor. But after about half of the day, even HE saw the humor in it.

I think that all of the folks at Mc Centre should show up in full dress regalia as if they were headed out to the highland games and getting ready to sit down to a steaming hot hagis <G>... Would be priceless to see managments expression.

regards

Scott
in the fight against privitization

[NERC Dweller]

Sorry folks but thats all very tame

A certain young female manager from Lockheed wore on her last day at NERC the custume she had appeared in the SPOTS Panto

i.e. Knee High Leather Boots, fishnets and a skimpy black leather outfit.

Rumour has it that she had also presented at a Lockheed meeting wearing a Bumble Bee custume

[Vercingetorix]

A certain ATCA working the edge lit boards in the old Southern Centre Radar Unit at Heathrow north side was told that he was improperly dressed and ordered to appear next day apropriately attired. Next shift he turned up wearing a Top Hat & Tails and inquired as to how to wear his head set. Same year another Atca at West Drayton, having turned up for the night shift in corded denins, was ordered to go home and return properly dressed. He resigned on the spot. Any of you out there got that sort of courage ?

[The Sad ATCO]

Rumour has it that senior management at all NATS units have already been issued with their uniforms in preparation for this coming in.

Their kit consists of Teflon suits with sloping shoulders and a big pocket for the binoculars to look past the current problems and search for their bonuses.

I hope that if we bring in the uniform idea (OK by me as long as I can have a peaked hat with scrambled egg on the front) that we will also hold a 'Mingers Parade'. There's no point wearing a jacket and tie if you're the great unwashed (no names, no pack drill). I'd rather work next to a scruffy clean ATCO than a smart smelly one.

The Fragrant One:ok:

[Eric T Cartman]

Anyone remember "The Corporal" - an ATCA @ ScATCC Redbrae in early 70's - wore a brown Parka wi' Corporal stripes & thoroughly P***** off the RAF contingent !?

[2 six 4]

Sorry to spoil somebody's idea but a dress code has been tested in industrial relations / employment law and found to be enforceable. Management might be right to think they can apply it but they'd be stupid to do it. :(

Why is it the Scotish managment seem to think they need to focus on this sort of c**p ? By the other threads recently they will have enough problems trying to merge their centres without this rubbish. :confused:

[Bigears]

Some links here that may be useful.......
Suggested dress code for ScACC (http://www.batd.co.uk/pages/news/Highland1.htm) Like the note under type 1 :p
Management take note (http://www.semantic.co.uk/inside_semantic/dress_code.asp) :hmm:

I believe Scott Adams (of Dilbert fame) said that anyone whose work is more than two levels removed from the company core task should be sacked........however, it could also be a ploy to see how much s*it a desperate prospective WM will take (and pass on). :{

[tobzalp]

Jerricho you are excluded from any conversation about fashion by default.

[Charley B]

How stupid is that idea-------wear what your comfy in the jobs stressful enough without worrying what to wear for the sake of the management .Saw Disc Wings prog the other night featuring Gander ATC and Shanwick and the chaps looked fine in jeans and T shirts!
It reminds me of the management of a Taxi firm I used to work for. MADAM banned shorts,most of the drivers wore smart ones and were not pleased about this! So, under their trousers were the shorts ---------I used to sayover the air shes gone home and lots of cabbies jumped out and dropped their trousers!!!!!!!
Seriously Im lucky as Im self employed and can wear what I like ,I certainly dont like being told what to wear!!!