PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > African Aviation
Forgotten your Username/Password?

African Aviation Regional issues that affect the numerous pilots who work in this area of the world.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 22nd Nov 2012, 15:37   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Benin City, Nigeria
Posts: 91
"First Nation" A320 in Lagos

The jet is parked close to the Aero apron. It's rego is hidden, and it isn't wearing the First Nation name, but the paintwork is the old FN one. So, have the owners returned one of the de-registered jets to FN, or was it never surrendered in the first place? Perhaps it's a different machine than the initial three. Does anyone have a clue?
flareout BC is offline   Reply
Old 22nd Nov 2012, 19:23   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: here and there
Age: 43
Posts: 51
Spare parts warehouse

As far as I know, FN used the aircraft as a spare parts store, in order to keep the other aircrafts serviceable...........
When the owner wanted the repossess the aircraft it could not get the bird airworthy again.
Lufthansa Technik did an audit and found around 100 unidentified (no removal documentation) parts missing on the aircraft.
I guess the aircraft needs to get intense maintenance to receive a temp. C of A for export
stallfail is offline   Reply
Old 24th Nov 2012, 15:07   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 727 Celing
Posts: 25
Sad, Stallfail

If this is the way our air folks, or at least some them, are handling things, then the industry is in bad shape and the portends for the future are equally bad. I don't think NCAA's boys can swear they didn't know of some of this stuff while it lasted. Real sad, man
727-2F9 is offline   Reply
Old 19th Dec 2012, 12:33   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Here.
Posts: 8
FNC and the aviation capital group

The plane is FNC, one of the 3 planes leased by ACG . The planes were so old .. around 20 years old .. All of them werent pass an appropiate manteinance checks when leased.
So when the company started ops all the planes were GROUNDED due multiples MELs,like air bleed leaks ,APUs not working , multiple surfaces computers not operating , corrosion on the fuselage , hidraulic leaks on struts,flaps locked,pack not operative,pitot tubes static tubes sensors,radar,flight displays not lighting.. etcetc,...
Its awesome how a leasing company can give planes on that state and after hope than their clients put the money to fix the planes while operating.
To be honest the FNA and FNB get intensive maintenance actions using the pieces from FNC and asking for new ones just to be operative to start the airline. With zero hours in 3 months and each one with more than 10 MELs . I did the flight tests of FNA and after 4 months with zero hours , and full maintenace service applied in Lagos , we founded a hell flight starting with no input from rudder on take off ! NWS seems not working ..so we had to make an asimetric thrust take off because we arent able to mantain the runway heading on the first 80 knots ..awesome.. bleed leak .. tcas not working ..no autobrake indication, bullshit planes from ACG . We fixed FNA and FNB with a lot of effort and and 2 or 3 flight test per plane before entering on operation.
So i guess this leasing company is NOT a victim.
jimmyjoe22 is offline   Reply
Old 20th Dec 2012, 21:32   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: here and there
Age: 43
Posts: 51
Wow..........

Quote:
The planes were so old .. around 20 years old .. All of them werent pass an appropiate manteinance checks when leased.
So how is this possible ????, somebody had to check/receive/accept the aircrafts from the lessor and actually put his name under the lease agreement,
further all of them were 5N registered, means they received a valid AOC issued by the NCAA !!!
I assume the NCAA would never have granted a Certificate of Airworthiness, if the birds would not have passed appropriate maintenance checks
!!!

Quote:
So when the company started ops all the planes were GROUNDED due multiples MELs,like air bleed leaks ,APUs not working , multiple surfaces computers not operating , corrosion on the fuselage , hidraulic leaks on struts,flaps locked,pack not operative,pitot tubes static tubes sensors,radar,flight displays not lighting.. etcetc,...
Its awesome how a leasing company can give planes on that state and after hope than their clients put the money to fix the planes while operating.
No, It is amazing that First Nation invested a lot of money and leased three A320's, which were (in accordance with jimmyjoe22) more or less scrap !!!!!

Quote:
With zero hours in 3 months and each one with more than 10 MELs . I did the flight tests of FNA and after 4 months with zero hours , and full maintenace service applied in Lagos , we founded a hell flight starting with no input from rudder on take off ! NWS seems not working ..so we had to make an asimetric thrust take off because we arent able to mantain the runway heading on the first 80 knots ..awesome.. bleed leak .. tcas not working ..no autobrake indication, bullshit planes from ACG


Not able to maintain runway heading below 80kts/ no rudder input /bleed leak/no TCAS/no autobrake !

Are you complete insane to take a ride on a coffin ship like this ?


Do not know your aviation background, geezer, but do me a favor and put on your "none smoking" jacket again and hush, hush, back into the cage..........

PS:
Quote:
So i guess this leasing company is NOT a victim.
Bloody, good guess, mate !!!!
stallfail is offline   Reply
Old 20th Dec 2012, 23:33   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UAE
Posts: 89
NWS seems not working so we had to apply asymmetric thrust below 80kts....

Its called RTO you complete Cowboy "We will abort the take off for ANY malfunction below 80kts"......you actually made the flights a nightmare by making a flight of it. You have a position of responsibility and you did not follow any of your training or rules that you had been taught that come with the legal capacity of holding a pilots license. You my non level 4 English speaking friend are a complete el plonko and its people like you that should be made to give back your license.
blablabla is offline   Reply
Old 25th Dec 2012, 23:18   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southern Shores of Lusitania
Age: 43
Posts: 415
According S-A.de they just received a "new" 319 last week...

FirstNation Airways 5N- (Airbus A319 - MSN 647) (Ex EI-DVD F-GPMH ) | Airfleets aviation

Last edited by JanetFlight; 25th Dec 2012 at 23:22.
JanetFlight is offline   Reply
Old 26th Dec 2012, 10:37   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 727 Celing
Posts: 25
Another "one jet" op?

Nigeria's CAA has a rule that no carrier should be allowed to fly with less than two jets (promotes safety, schedule integrity, and all that). So, if FN take-off with one A319, won't they be flouting that law? Chanchangi, apparently, also are flying a single B733 too. Makes for interesting times, these
727-2F9 is offline   Reply
Old 26th Dec 2012, 14:06   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Here.
Posts: 8
Stallfail

1st point . The AOC is granted by an NCAA engineer on ground . So if theres no NWS indication fault or bleed fault on ground or some pitot tubes sensors not operating on ground how the hell he is going to know they arent working.
Thats why the airplane had only "special AOC for flight tests" to raise up the "hidden failures" We found all of them .
2nd About the NWS it wasnt totally inoperative .. it had a deviation to the right .. seems that do not answer correctly to the left rudder inputs . And think about this .. There was autobrake but i didnt see the decel simbol so according to MEL that is inoperative and i realize when landing . (and... im not captain buddy . )
3rd point . The bleed leak came after on airborne at 10.000 fts .How can i know the plane has bleed leak if i didnt have any indication on ground.
4rd point .The TCAS one was working the other no . Maybe a class 3 failure of computation.
5 th THIS WAS A TEST FLIGHT FOR AOC CERTIFICATION because the NCAA retired it and to be sure the plane was fine they told to us to make flight tests due the long time stopped.
jimmyjoe22 is offline   Reply
Old 26th Dec 2012, 14:24   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Here.
Posts: 8
To blablabla

About you blablabla just your name defines you . Im not going to enter to discuss with you anything about aviation because a person like you doesnt deserve more.
Pimps like you , with big mouths are plenty on aviation industry but if you arent able to to discuss about a flight tests is because your mind is not only closed its broken so you are limited .
You can continue your blablablas cowboys in another part because if you expect that the flight test is like your "career -autopilot " im sorry but someone must do it, to let you the plane autopilot-working perfectly nice to you, to let you able to disconnect at 100 fts to fly the plane before landing. and to take off nicely.
And yes your level of english is 10 because for every 10 word you say 9 is bullshit and one to link them lol.So its a level not even cataloged.
jimmyjoe22 is offline   Reply
Old 26th Dec 2012, 20:29   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: here and there
Age: 43
Posts: 51
Calm down a bit my friend................

James Joseph, just for your information, this is an Aviation Forum, means people post their stories, information, rumours etc. on this platform...

It works like this: you create some post and somebody is answering or giving his/her opinion to your statement.

Quote:
we founded a hell flight starting with no input from rudder on take off ! NWS seems not working ..so we had to make an asimetric thrust take off because we arent able to mantain the runway heading on the first 80 knots ..awesome..
So listen bloke , a penmanship (#7585191) like this, really diserves a reply like mine or blablabla's!!!
Fact is, your English skills are not the best my friend, not a problem at all, but maybe you were a bit too excited in self displaying the situation you had to deal within FN ?!
In my world the word awesome means "great", "amazing", "wonderful",..... sorry cannot find anything awesome here and have to agree to blablabla that people like you should be made to give back their license !

Concerning your points 1-5, you were complaining about the Aviation Capital Group, about how cheeky to offer aircrafts in such bad technical conditions and so on.
A simple question to you : if you want to buy a very old used car (20 years), are you going to check the condition, or do you buy it and afterwards complain about the car dealer???
My point is ,........
FN was keen to get A320's under their AOC, they wanted a cheap and fast deal, without spending money on professional Aircraft Asset Management. The result was partly described by you, engineers had to cannibalize one aircraft out of three, normal operation was never achieved, even though with all the dodgy "can do" efforts made by you people......
Unfortunately, with the same result you can see so many times in Nigeria...
stallfail is offline   Reply
Old 27th Dec 2012, 07:13   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tamworth, UK / Nairobi, Kenya
Posts: 418
@ Stallfail

Before chastising others for their English writing abilities, one should be sure of one's own English writing abilities.

I could go through each line of your post, but rather than belabour the point, let me simply state that after ignoring spelling errors, every single sentence contained at least one grammatical error, with some sentences having as many as four such mistakes.

One should not judge the intelligence or abilities of another by their written word, particularly when they are writing in a language that is not their native tongue, and may quite possibly be their fifth or sixth language.

Some of the most brilliant people in the world do not write well in English. Some of the best pilots to ever fly could not write well in English either, so it would be imprudent to determine that a pilot should have to return his license because he does not write well in English. (By the way, I believe it is a certificate, not a license, but that's another discussion)

If pilots were to have their rights to fly removed because they were unable to write well in English, well, you, my friend, would also lose your flying rights. I might also lose mine, should some English professor come along and read this and find a run-on sentence, or mixed verb tense, or some other faus-pas within this text.

As for the definition of awesome, well, it means more than "great", "amazing", "wonderful". Here is the definition from dictionary.reference.com :
awe·some [aw-suh m]
1. inspiring awe: an awesome sight.
2. showing or characterized by awe.
3. Slang. very impressive: That new white convertible is totally awesome.

So to understand awesome, one must know the definition of awe:
awe [aw]
an overwhelming feeling of reverence, admiration, fear, etc., produced by that which is grand, sublime, extremely powerful, or the like: in awe of God; in awe of great political figures.

Based on the actual definition of awe and awesome, I'd say he used the word perfectly.
darkroomsource is offline   Reply
Old 27th Dec 2012, 09:31   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: here and there
Age: 43
Posts: 51
well,.......

indeed, I am not a native speaker and even though I've passed the ICAO language proficiency test, my language skill seems not to be sufficient enough to satisfy a bloke like you..........

Please be so kind and do not misinterpret my post, I've never determined that a pilot should have to return his license because he does not write well in English !!!

My opinion ( and believe me, I am not allone) is that based on jimmyjoes statement that he performed a take off, not having directional control below 80 kts and using assymetric thrust in order to get the bird airborne ( irrespective of performing a testflight or not) is inconsistent with any procedure, means he did not follow basic rules that come with the legal capacity of holding a pilots license !!!!

I really appreciate your patience, giving me a lecture in English grammer, but it missed the point !!!

I have tried to explain the chain of events, means the management of FN leased birds which were not airworthy, commercial pressure and mismanagement led to the point where procedures and rules got strechted because pilots/engineers try to make things happen, with proper basic conditions not provided !!!

Working in Nigeria means, walking on a narrow path, you will find so many difficulties and daily bullshit, forcing you to violate or short cut procedures and rules, you have to know the limits very well and refuse to accept unsafe conditions,......... what makes you a professional pilot/engineer and not the capability of writting a scholarly piece regarding the word "awesome" !!!
stallfail is offline   Reply
Old 27th Dec 2012, 11:37   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tamworth, UK / Nairobi, Kenya
Posts: 418
And with that well written post, your point is made clearly, without having to slam an individual for something entirely unrelated to the issue at hand.

Often we lose perspective when discussing issues on venues such as this, and entire threads go off in a direction which fails to address the real issue.

That issue, the one raised initially, is this...

why did anyone allow that plane off the ground in the first place if all the problems listed were known?

And if they weren't known, why not?
darkroomsource is offline   Reply
Old 27th Dec 2012, 12:16   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Here.
Posts: 8
Stallfail

So as you have the correct procedure on the Pedal Nws steering abnormal performance with no Ecam warning let me explain you that not all the malfunctions below V1 or 100 ktos require to abort .

1st . If a low speed leads you to an undesired directional control at 60 knots due the engine torque ,and an system abnormality , the intelligent action is to reduce power on engines. To the level to stop it ? im not really agree because reducing the engine power to zero will lead the speed also and we will continue deeping on that inestability. If you are already on the right side of the runway youll eat the grass and probably destroy the plane. And yes , youll stop it following your procedure "if any malfunction appears before 100 kts ill abort".Simple minds simple consecuences.

2nd The objective is to recover the directional control . As you should know as magnificient holder of CPL license , in airbus theres a transfer of performance from the NWS to the Air Rudder with the speed . Also in boeing.
More speed more effective get the air rudder , the transfer started to produce around between 40 to 60 kts and you can feel it at 80 kts. If you are heavy the transfer is slower if you are lighter ( ferry flight) the transfer is faster.
So you ve to think what is nearer to your objective that is resume safely from that situation.
The captain decided that continue increasing the speed will allow us to recover the control earlier than stopping the plane . And well, he was right, as soon the air rudder got a little performance he centered the plane .
For landing the correct procedure is to land with autobrake MED,full reverse ,try to do not touch the pedals and use the handwheel steering ASAP .
3rd There is documented some accidents due this problem that the captains took the decision .. your decision to abort , and the get out of the runway .. they thought that was because the engine torque push them outside the runway but is not true . Is because the pedal steering has an abnormality on the degree limitation on one of the sides and when you figure out what the hell is going on ,.. they took the instinctive decision to abort .. and lead the plane to a total uncontrolled situation because they apply brakes ON THE PEDALS on a system is not working properly and bye bye.
4th Lets try to speak about aviation and avoid comments like "legal capacity holding pilot license" im not judging you , not your english grammar ,not your vocabulary , and not your knowledge im just posting in a forum about aviation.
jimmyjoe22 is offline   Reply
Old 2nd Jan 2013, 09:11   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bucks
Posts: 215
@ darkroomsource: I am that Professor you dreaded ever reading your posts. How ironic the exact part of your post where you chose to make the 'faux-pas' (spelling wise) - error!

I concur with you on the need to clearly establish that this forum isn't a Language proficiency stage so long as we accept that Aviation extends to people who do not speak English as it should be spoken. Nonetheless, remember ANC - its all about Communication which has to be 2-way in aviation, negative 1-way.

@ jimmyjoe22:
Quote:
As you should know as magnificient holder of CPL license
Classic man, classic I bet you've taught some ATP guys new stuff with your last post. lol @ 'magnificient'

There's no harm in learning new stuff on a daily basis.

@ all PPruners: If George Bush jr can speak and do what he does with English Language, please allow it for others. Enough said, happy 2013 to you all!

Last edited by NaijaNinja; 2nd Jan 2013 at 09:28.
NaijaNinja is offline   Reply
Old 2nd Jan 2013, 09:24   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tamworth, UK / Nairobi, Kenya
Posts: 418
Quote:
@ darkroomsource: I am that Professor you dreaded ever reading your posts. How ironic the exact part of your post where you chose to make the 'faux-pas' (spelling wise) - error!
I knew someone would have a laugh at that.
darkroomsource is offline   Reply
Old 4th Jan 2013, 18:27   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Here.
Posts: 8
Happy 2013 ..

Wish you all a "magnificent 2013" lol.
jimmyjoe22 is offline   Reply
Old 6th Jan 2013, 00:33   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: 6554N
Posts: 102
I knew some Nigerian pilots at Oxford many years ago. they were very neat flyiers and highly intelligent. It is unfortunate that they are not involved in helping to regulate Nigerian Aviation.
bluehawaii is offline   Reply
Old 6th Jan 2013, 14:38   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Here and there
Posts: 243
So, after the extensive exchange about english skills, I wonder, what's now the truth about the ACG birds.

Are they flying scrap or underestimated quality birds...

It seems pretty strange, that an airline leases aircraft and returns them after a comparably short time.

Oh yes: Please excuse my possibly weak english skills. I am a non-native english speaker... ;-)
ChiefT is offline   Reply
Reply
 
 
 


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 04:14.


vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
© 1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network