Don't worry about Kalitta, let Connie be Connie and do what ever they want too.
I too was a green card holder and British national, and was rejected by them.
Too many fish in the sea, to worry about one.
Sky Lease and National have 74s, and are looking for people.

No !!!!! Sherlock, thanks for being captain obvious.

Wholly owned with a flow is great insurance. Of course everyone is also looking elsewhere other than where the flow leads. Sure is a nice insurance plan though compared to being at Skywest or wherever that have been there 15+ years not getting calls by majors at all.

Lots of guys leaving for other legacy gigs outside of the flow, those that aren’t are within 12 months of flowing

And so are Atlas.
And they take green card holders.
And they’re in the same business as Kalitta.

Nah, stay away from Skylease.
They have been on the verge of the abyss several times recently.
Furloughs, re-calls, no pay checks, no money for fuel, parked planes, etc.
The. After hurricane Irma they got a boost flying relief to San Juan.
Bottom feeder, but quick upgrades and heavy time if you got nothing else going on, just don’t get married, don’t make kids and don’t take up too many mortgages:((

I can do without the No Sn*t Sherlock, Captain obvious comment.
A claim was made. I made a rebuttal.

No, a flow through is not great insurance, when it’s a false insurance designed to lure you into a false sense of security. Just like the advertisement that uses the phrase ‘peace of mind’. You know you’ve been had.

A friend went to Horizon many years ago, and became comfortable. Too comfortable, and he stayed. Oh he talked about going to Alaska, but never seemed to do much about getting there.

Now if he had realized the hard truths of the of the regional business, and picked the worst one with the fastest upgrade. Then every day he’d be scrambling to get out.
A crappy company is a great motivator for upward mobility.

You plan your next move whilst your in ground school, and you make it happen.
You only have yourself to blame of it doesn’t.
For these are the best times I’ve ever known.
If your still at Skywest after 15 years, your not trying.
You can’t just send stuff out and wait for a call.
You have to work the phones and pound the pavement too.
I used to have a rule, that every day I had to do something to better my lot in life.
You know what? It worked.

You might wish to consider one of the bottom feeder A320 operators such Jetblue. I’ve been told they’ve taken guys from Cebu Pacific, PAL, Avianca and the likes. Might be something to consider until you can get a degree and go to a reputable airline.

Best of luck to you

I agree with everything you’re saying and I’m doing exactly that myself. But to say the flow is useless is a false statement, say that to the guys currently flowing now that never got a call that have the right resume, did all the job fairs, networked, no skeletons etc. we have jumpseaters all the time from companies without flow through that time and time again say they wish they went to a wholly owned with a flow.

I'm sure they wish that, even though they have no way of knowing when (or if) they would have flowed had they been with said regional.


To me, these "flows" really benefit largely only those pilots who would have had little to no chance of going to the relevant mainline operator in the absence of such an arrangement. At the same time, it actually (in my opinion) handicaps those pilots who could have got in on merit, because they have to wait for their number to come up. In the meantime, the world can flip twenty (or more) times.

If you get a green card, it is a permanent residency card.
To maintain it you must remain a resident of the US.
You can not go to work in Asia or South America and keep your green card active.

Hmmm, I might not be too quick to throw JB in that category. They're not DL, UAL, AA or SWA but they're working on it.

It's likely as hard to get hired by JB as any other career-destination carrier. :ok:

True.
You’ll need to wait till you have your US Passport.

I live in the US with a green card and commute to work in Asia.

A little off thread, but I've always been amused by the insistence in the US to have a degree. The OP has all the experience, but lacks a degree. He can obviously do the job. Did my flight training as a foreign student (some 40 of us) with the USN, all of us with just high school education, and no one had any troubles, though the USN demanded a degree for the natives to apply.

Norwegian 787 FLL
 

Apply to Norwegian as a DEC or FO with your time. They
Are hiring in FLL so you could live in base.

Fly a 787 and lead a pretty good life down there.

megan,

This has been much discussed (with a case to be made on both sides) but it all comes down to one fact of life: the airline Cubicle Farms at many of the most desirable carriers have decreed it so.

It's their party so they decide who gets invited. You can certainly find the occasional exception but it's pervasive enough to consider it The Law of the Jungle.

Even among those carriers who list it as "preferred", at this moment in history, I'd venture a guess that most of your competition WILL have one. Competition at the legacy level is amazingly fierce. Legions of very good applicants can't get so much as the steam off the legacy airlines' yellow snow.

I've not seen any data on what percentage of otherwise qualified applicants have degrees vs not. It might be enlightening to see that data if it even exists.

If those alleging a pilot shortage are correct, many carriers may have to drop the inviolable demand for a degree; that remains to be seen.

SEATS WILL BE FILLED !!! Bet the grocery money on that one.

DL's hiring manager recently stated at a meeting with a group of affiliated pilots that DL will NEVER drop the degree requirement. Take that for what it's worth...

I had the good fortune to be coached forty-five plus years by senior TW and PA captains. The happy result of growing up and learning to fly in Fairfield County, CT. One TW training captain told me, having grumbled about pilot selection process, was shown a filing cabinets of applications. The VP Operstions and Personnel told him, “sort it out.” As Kenny said, “if you’re trying to whittle down thousands of applications to hundreds to be interviewed for tens to be hired, a good place to start is college education.” Get your degree, he advised.

Besides, if the job is considered a “profession”, a college degree sounds professional. Execs with MBAs are more willing to cough up 300k for college grads than high school grads.

True then, true now.

GF

It's OK, I get it that it's their train set and can set the goal posts where ever they like. Just had a friends son (Navy), high school education, graduate from military pilots course and did so well that the Air Force asked him to swap service and fly the F-18. We've had guys with nothing more than high school go through USN, USAF and ETPS test pilot courses. Horses for courses I guess.

Wonder if the degree requirement would last if the pilot shortage gets as bad as some predict.Don't know the quality of college education in the US, but here you can get a degree in left handed basket weaving, if you get my drift.

I don't believe I ever met an original Pan Am pilot without a college degree. Also, of the folks hired prior to 1987, only one I knew had a non-military background. Pan Am even required a four-year college degree for its flight attendants until they started hiring B-scalers in the late 1980's.

The two big clubs at Pan Am were Yale and the Naval Academy. In the 1980's Pan Am merged National Airlines and a commuter airline named Ransome onto their pilot seniority list. The rather patrician Pan Am pilots looked down their noses at the other pilots because they came to dinner without wearing their school ties. ;)

megan,

I agree. The ability of a bright, motivated person w/o a college degree to do the job is NOT in dispute. As you point out, there's plenty of empirical evidence to support their suitability.

That's leaves nothing at work in these cases but the people who own the train set...and their ability to call the shots.

I'd suspect that the degree requirement will fall if/when supply gets to the point the business plan is threatened..."IF" "WHEN". At that point airline managements will massage their rhetoric to magically pronounce H.S. grads as terrific candidates with no reference to what this demonstrates about their previous stance on the matter.

In the meantime, how many good candidates did they pass over...and will they rue not having access to them any longer ?

You can be a resident of the US and work elsewhere. I file taxes as a resident, have a driver's license in the U.S, cars, house, wife and kids. I just happen to leave the country for a few weeks at a time for work.
No hassles at the border and no immigration judge would question where I reside.

Ghost7, I did the same thing you have in mind doing and I am paying very high price for that mistake.
Unless you get a lucky strike or belong to the lucky sperm club I would recommend to do what fuelsurvey is doing if you want to conserve your composture and dignity.
Very hard to get with the majors where you will find good working conditions.
Regionals are tough, and QOL sucks compared to what you have (believe me).
How about flying cargo in a 777F for $3,600 usd a month, (oh, yeah still have to deduct taxes from that) and also an extra $1,000 month if you have the audacity of daring to aspire to provide health insurance to your wife and 2 kids, because that is An expensive privilege that you have to pay.
The above example is not uncomon to small Air carries here in the US.
Some other cargo outfits pay a decent salary but you will be gone 20 and 22 days in a row a month.
Allegiant can be a nice option, even though I have 2,300 hrs on the Busses it does not seem to have enough weight.
Be careful.
Just my 2 cents...

HR departments at US carriers hire the person, not the hours or a type rating. Be warned!

GF

GF,

Exactly. And it's a very difficult concept to get across to people.

As the mandatory retirements increase, it'll be fun to watch what constitutes the appropriate "person" in the eyes of desirable employers.

:oh:

It totalydepends on where you are moving to... can you answer that if you don't mind? The region you are moving to?

At the legacies, I don’t see it changing much, perhaps 4-year degree will be preferred at WN, for example. The US has such a robust “farm league” that DL, AA, UA, FDX can sustain the 4-degree for a long time. The short lasting AA, UA an initio plan in the late 60s required a degree and the candidate get a CPL on their own. Didn’t last long, but I think Rick “Choke the Goose” Dubinsky was one of them.

GF

A person I know recently attended a meeting where the head of DL's pilot employment spoke. He said DL will "never" drop the requirement for a 4-year degree. Never is a strong word but that's what he said.

Guys the requirements in the US are tailored to the american system. High school in the US is NOT comparable to Europe (no offence meant), it just isn’t a good enough level. So the requirement for uni simply makes sure the applicant has achieved a minimum acceptable standard of academic education to represent a major company as he moves up the ranks.
Now, me and you know that having been to uni means nothing in terms of defining a person, however like I said the US high school diploma simply doesn’ t cover enough compared to other places of the world.

bbt80s,

You might be right with your comparison of American education system at the high school level to other countries. I don't really know as I have no basis for comparison. Perhaps you do...not interested in debating that as it accomplishes nothing germane to the issue.

Our government education system leaves something to be desired at the elementary and high school levels with appropriate blame for all involved parties.

But that aside...the college degree requirement at career-destination airlines is much debated here with cases to be made on both sides.

However, there's one simple, pragmatic principle at work here: pilot requirements are the airlines' game so THEY make up the rules of that game, right, wrong or neither. All the debate in the world won't change it; only supply/demand forces can and it's unlikely they will here in the USA.

[And, yes, you can find the occasional example of a person who got to a US legacy without a degree. That doesn't disprove or negate the broader facts.]

The airline HR types will have their own list of reasons why they insist on a 4-year degree. Your statement that it's for an "...acceptable standard of academic education to represent a major company as he moves up the ranks." is as good as any since the reasons they require it don't matter.

They DO require it...your competition for highly competitive spots WILL have one even if the employer only lists it as "preferred".

Competition for the spots at the career-destination carriers here is FIERCE and RELENTLESS but often puzzling and infuriating so I can understand why expats coming here with the legal ability (and quals) to fly for an airline would find it all irritating.

That’s already the case. However, 98% of new hires have at a minimum a bachelors degree. The majority of military hires have the obligatory masters degree. The new hires that I’ve flown with that don’t have a degree, have all been exceptional in some other way.

Working max hours with minimum pay for the worst low cost 787 operator in the world?

Good advice!:D

Try JetBlue. Their main training facility is within the grounds of MCO and they're always looking for FAA qualified pilots.

Hi

I'm in Orlando right now.

Welcome. I'm a little over an hour away in Ormond Beach, based at MCO.

I live in Orlando too. Had been flying Pt 135 and Pt 91 corporate, but started early this year with PSA. I have to commute, right now, to Philadelphia but that changes to Charlotte in August.

The 3 American wholly owned regionals have a direct flow through to AA, although it can take a while. They all have direct entry Capt. positions too.