Delta Flight lands at wrong airport on 7/7
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 174
Likes: 1
From: Netherlands
Long time retired but I am glad I wasn't lured into a mistake like that, although I almost (as a young S/O) talked a crew into taking a wrong RWY. Luckily the boss had (then) 18.000hrs more than I had and noticed the difference in heading and we could swap to the correct one.
Like the Ancient Greek, I would say, they have been punished already hard enough, and it will haunt them for years to come, (especially after a few beers with colleagues
), more punishment is not effective.
Like my Chief Pilot then used to say about incidents like this: I am going to laugh my head off about these things, AFTER I am retired myself.....
Like the Ancient Greek, I would say, they have been punished already hard enough, and it will haunt them for years to come, (especially after a few beers with colleagues
), more punishment is not effective.Like my Chief Pilot then used to say about incidents like this: I am going to laugh my head off about these things, AFTER I am retired myself.....
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 79
From: Denver
I loved the Denver Post's headline this morning (deep inside the paper, not P.1)
"Delta Err Lines"
Story reported there have been over 150 incidents since the "early 1990s" of commercial (pax and cargo) aircraft starting to land at the wrong airport in the U.S. - of which 35 continued to a landing; the other crews caught their error while still on approach and went around.
"Delta Err Lines"
Story reported there have been over 150 incidents since the "early 1990s" of commercial (pax and cargo) aircraft starting to land at the wrong airport in the U.S. - of which 35 continued to a landing; the other crews caught their error while still on approach and went around.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 120
Likes: 4
From: England
When I started operating single crew charter flights 30 odd years ago I was given some great advice from a much more experienced Captain. He advised me always to set up and follow the instrument approach even in perfect weather to avoid landing at the wrong airport. KRAP had a VOR and an RNAV approach so no excuse for this whatsoever. The fact that they got away with this is irrelevant as the outcome could have been catastrophic.
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 9
From: UK
Heh - try single pilot operations in Africa in the days before GPS. If you were new to the reserve finding the correct game lodge strip twice out or three is good. After a year getting it wrong once a week is about average, there is always one that you hav'nt beeen to for a few months.
Nowadays they are probably doing better with GPS but one dirt strip in the bush next to a few huts will still look like many others.
Nowadays they are probably doing better with GPS but one dirt strip in the bush next to a few huts will still look like many others.
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 910
Likes: 47
From: Perth, WESTERN AUSTRALIA
No case to answer
I'm with you Airbubba.
Can't imagine that this can happen and the regulators can't see a flaw in the proceedings and a low-hanging butt to kick.
But now that we know that there has been 30+ similar incidents in 16 years then perhaps its just a cultural thing, entrenched, irresolvable ...........
Trash du Blanc
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,185
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From: KBHM
Well for starters, I'm guessing the Air Force base is not in the company op specs.
And performance was not calculated for that runway.
And they violated their ATC clearance.
etc.
At least they didn't do what the ASA crew did while I was working there... take back off again and land at the correct field. That was malfeasance, not misfeasance.....
And performance was not calculated for that runway.
And they violated their ATC clearance.
etc.
At least they didn't do what the ASA crew did while I was working there... take back off again and land at the correct field. That was malfeasance, not misfeasance.....
Joined: Dec 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 3,985
Likes: 568
From: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
Huck,
Might be in their Ops Specs, ithe AFB is both an alternate for KRAP and sometimes has been used during construction at the civil airport.
Second, the ND might have shown KRCA instead of KRAP, if there was a corrupted up linked flight plan or a manual entry from a bad paper plan.
GF
Might be in their Ops Specs, ithe AFB is both an alternate for KRAP and sometimes has been used during construction at the civil airport.
Second, the ND might have shown KRCA instead of KRAP, if there was a corrupted up linked flight plan or a manual entry from a bad paper plan.
GF
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 79
From: Denver
The fact that they got away with this is irrelevant as the outcome could have been catastrophic.
What odds are you assigning? 1 in 10? 1 in 35? 1 in 100?
Here's a list of "wrong-airport" landings dating back to 1950. 92 in total.
http://www.thirdamendment.com/WrongWay.pdf
One (1) resulted in a confirmed fatality (B29 bomber at Ogden UT).
One (1) might (tongue in cheek
) be counted as a "National Security catastrophe" (U.S. military officers mistakenly delivered to an airport in the USSR, instead of in Turkey).I don't disagree with your post overall - but the "hyperventilation" in that last sentence spoils the effect.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,369
Likes: 3
From: UK.
I know a man who intended to land on the SW runway at Lossiemouth.
He had radar direction who said something like "Now joining downwind right. Call tower on ***.*"
He looked out to the right and saw the runway, called tower and was cleared to finals.
Upon calling finals he was cleared to land.
As he exited the runway he noticed the Nimrods.
He continued along the taxiway, had a good look around, took off, turned right and called downwind again, at Lossie this time and not Kinloss, and landed successfully.
No comment was made by Lossie, Kinloss or the pilot, who never told anyone for a long time until he told me.
Funny old thing, the station badge motto at Lossie is 'Thoir an aire' which can be translated as 'Pay attention' or 'Be careful'.
He had radar direction who said something like "Now joining downwind right. Call tower on ***.*"
He looked out to the right and saw the runway, called tower and was cleared to finals.
Upon calling finals he was cleared to land.
As he exited the runway he noticed the Nimrods.
He continued along the taxiway, had a good look around, took off, turned right and called downwind again, at Lossie this time and not Kinloss, and landed successfully.
No comment was made by Lossie, Kinloss or the pilot, who never told anyone for a long time until he told me.
Funny old thing, the station badge motto at Lossie is 'Thoir an aire' which can be translated as 'Pay attention' or 'Be careful'.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,114
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,003
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From: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
In most of these incidents, it's almost traditional to flame those sitting at the pointy-end.
But control towers traditionally have BIG windows, so that those paid to sit inside can look out......And check everything is going according to plan.
But control towers traditionally have BIG windows, so that those paid to sit inside can look out......And check everything is going according to plan.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,350
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From: Florida and wherever my laptop is
Sounds like you haven't spent many hours in a control tower with streams of traffic on multiple runways in varying weather conditions. Noticing someone who should _not_ be on approach can be difficult.
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 72
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From: Singapore
Pilots are human
And to err is human.This is something that some pilots need to learn here.
I see two types posting.
1) those accepting that pilots mess up every now and again, and using their mistakes and others' mistakes to improve their own game.
2) those who believe that pilots (and themselves) are infallible, and look for any excuse to blame someone or something else or "wait for the full report". It's called denial.
As slf these days, I want type 1 up front. Type 2 is a bigger risk.
An example. Flydubai, 12 seconds commanded nose down trim on GA, toga thrust. Official release. If you say suicidal, you pass. If you say, let's wait for the full report, you fail.
Landing at the wrong airport comes with some risks. But not as much as 12 seconds nose down trim at low alt and toga thrust.... The most important thing a pilot can learn is human fallibility.
I see two types posting.
1) those accepting that pilots mess up every now and again, and using their mistakes and others' mistakes to improve their own game.
2) those who believe that pilots (and themselves) are infallible, and look for any excuse to blame someone or something else or "wait for the full report". It's called denial.
As slf these days, I want type 1 up front. Type 2 is a bigger risk.
An example. Flydubai, 12 seconds commanded nose down trim on GA, toga thrust. Official release. If you say suicidal, you pass. If you say, let's wait for the full report, you fail.
Landing at the wrong airport comes with some risks. But not as much as 12 seconds nose down trim at low alt and toga thrust.... The most important thing a pilot can learn is human fallibility.
Joined: Jul 2013
Aviation Qualifications: Non-Aircrew
Posts: 5,679
Likes: 3,341
From: Everett, WA
New Boeings (at least the widebodies, not so sure about the 737) have an option that will give you a verbal alert if you're aligned with the wrong runway or the runway is too small for your aircraft.
I'm guessing Airbus has something similar.
Scuttlebutt for the Dreamlifter 747 that landed at the wrong airport was that the first officer kept saying something wasn't right but the captain dismissed him - Capt. was 'encouraged' to retire, FO went through some re-training before being allowed to resume normal ops.
I'm guessing Airbus has something similar.
Scuttlebutt for the Dreamlifter 747 that landed at the wrong airport was that the first officer kept saying something wasn't right but the captain dismissed him - Capt. was 'encouraged' to retire, FO went through some re-training before being allowed to resume normal ops.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,896
Likes: 1
From: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Scuttlebutt for the Dreamlifter 747 that landed at the wrong airport was that the first officer kept saying something wasn't right but the captain dismissed him - Capt. was 'encouraged' to retire, FO went through some re-training before being allowed to resume normal ops.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 105
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From: Northern Territory Australia
My 2 previous posts on this subject have disappeared so perhaps this one might remain and be commented upon. I find it odd that a military airbase isn't aware of the traffic making an approach to land there especially if it is a civilian aircraft. In these days of heightened security surely someone should have noticed; or is this a case of being asleep at the desk!
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,423
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From: world
I find it odd that a military airbase isn't aware of the traffic making an approach to land there