US Regional Headhunting
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From: USA
Horizon Air trotting out their Pilot Development Program again:
https://alaskaair.jobs/seattle-wa/pi...ce=SkyJobs.com
https://alaskaair.jobs/seattle-wa/pi...ce=SkyJobs.com
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From: Sydney
havick The pilot shortage is more nuancéd than the binary position currently broadly understood.
There is in fact a quality pilot shortage....or more accuratly put.... A shortage of airline operations capable pilots.
This is manifesting now in the regionals and is tacitly acknowledged by xjts unprecidented action.
There is in fact a quality pilot shortage....or more accuratly put.... A shortage of airline operations capable pilots.
This is manifesting now in the regionals and is tacitly acknowledged by xjts unprecidented action.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 481
Likes: 58
From: USA
havick The pilot shortage is more nuancéd than the binary position currently broadly understood.
There is in fact a quality pilot shortage....or more accuratly put.... A shortage of airline operations capable pilots.
This is manifesting now in the regionals and is tacitly acknowledged by xjts unprecidented action.
There is in fact a quality pilot shortage....or more accuratly put.... A shortage of airline operations capable pilots.
This is manifesting now in the regionals and is tacitly acknowledged by xjts unprecidented action.
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From: USA
Are the regional rotor-to-fixed wing programs having an noticeable effect on Army pilot retention ? I haven't seen any data but the question is being raised:
“One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall,” Brig. Gen. Michael C. McCurry, director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7 said Thursday at an aviation-focused event at the Association of the United States Army. “Well the short answer is, we don’t know. We don’t have good measurements out there right now to tell us why an aviator is getting out of the force."
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-...es-stays-high/
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-...mand-cautions/
“One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall,” Brig. Gen. Michael C. McCurry, director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7 said Thursday at an aviation-focused event at the Association of the United States Army. “Well the short answer is, we don’t know. We don’t have good measurements out there right now to tell us why an aviator is getting out of the force."
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-...es-stays-high/
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-...mand-cautions/
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From: Sydney
I couldnt answer that question for the US Army/marine corps however I can say that there is a vast difference between loosing a 10 year pilot to a 3rd or 4th year pilot in the Army.
Speaking loosly, in the civillian sector once you get you ATP ticket there really is no concrete measure of experience that actually affects your capacity to do your job. By this I mean a 1500h ATP pilot can 'do' thier job as much as a 10000h ATP pilot can....i.e: get plane from a to b.
In the army however the difference is exponential between a 4yr and 10 year pilot. But the military uses civillian metrics (pilot in vs pilot out) to measure its shortage. A mil guy not only needs to fly but then needs to go through multiple mission upgrades. Probably 20 to 30 up to a ten year point generally culminating as a flight examiner.
My point, and I have argued this before, Army needs to measure the pilot workforce in both numbers and man years to get a true reflection of the workforce.
So.....if Army thinks they are short in the raw numbers then if they started to look at skills lost
using a man years metric I would posit the defecit would be staggering.
Speaking loosly, in the civillian sector once you get you ATP ticket there really is no concrete measure of experience that actually affects your capacity to do your job. By this I mean a 1500h ATP pilot can 'do' thier job as much as a 10000h ATP pilot can....i.e: get plane from a to b.
In the army however the difference is exponential between a 4yr and 10 year pilot. But the military uses civillian metrics (pilot in vs pilot out) to measure its shortage. A mil guy not only needs to fly but then needs to go through multiple mission upgrades. Probably 20 to 30 up to a ten year point generally culminating as a flight examiner.
My point, and I have argued this before, Army needs to measure the pilot workforce in both numbers and man years to get a true reflection of the workforce.
So.....if Army thinks they are short in the raw numbers then if they started to look at skills lost
using a man years metric I would posit the defecit would be staggering.
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From: USA
The federal government is hard at work solving the pilot shortage by reintroducing a bill from last year. By producing regional pilot candidates from the look of the thumbnail sketch of the bill:
"Democrat Tammy Baldwin, along with Sen. John Hoewven, R-N.D., has reintroduced the American Aviator Act that would offer funding for veterans to train to become airline pilots."
“Veterans participating in the program will receive flight training necessary to become a commercial pilot and receive other certifications, including to work as a certified flight instructor,” Baldwin said in a news release.
https://www.avweb.com/flight-safety/...-for-veterans/
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...bill/3322/text
(b) Eligible entity.—For purposes of this section, the term “eligible entity” means a pilot school that—
(1) holds a training certificate under part 141 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations; and
(2) has an established employment pathway with at least one commercial air carrier operating under part 121 or 135 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations.
How is this different from the DOT's Forces to Flyers program ? Which has produced all of 44 students ?:
January 2019 Update
The 44 slots for veterans to participate have all been filled and the participants have begun their training to become commercial airline pilots. There are no slots available for additional participants.
https://www.volpe.dot.gov/forcestoflyers
"Democrat Tammy Baldwin, along with Sen. John Hoewven, R-N.D., has reintroduced the American Aviator Act that would offer funding for veterans to train to become airline pilots."
“Veterans participating in the program will receive flight training necessary to become a commercial pilot and receive other certifications, including to work as a certified flight instructor,” Baldwin said in a news release.
https://www.avweb.com/flight-safety/...-for-veterans/
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...bill/3322/text
(b) Eligible entity.—For purposes of this section, the term “eligible entity” means a pilot school that—
(1) holds a training certificate under part 141 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations; and
(2) has an established employment pathway with at least one commercial air carrier operating under part 121 or 135 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations.
How is this different from the DOT's Forces to Flyers program ? Which has produced all of 44 students ?:
January 2019 Update
The 44 slots for veterans to participate have all been filled and the participants have begun their training to become commercial airline pilots. There are no slots available for additional participants.
https://www.volpe.dot.gov/forcestoflyers
Last edited by bafanguy; 20th October 2019 at 15:47.
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From: USA
(g) Appropriations.—To carry out this section, there is authorized to be appropriated $5,000,000 for each of the fiscal years 2019 through 2021.
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From: USA
still it’s better than nothing for a lucky few, I bet they appreciate the leg up.
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From: USA
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From: US
In 40-50 yrs they’ll cover a year’s worth of major airline pilot demand.
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From: USA
[Sun Country isn't a regional but I don't know where else to put news about them]
I see that Sun Country is now advertising a “Paid ATP-CPT certification” for new hires:
Sun Country Benefits ? Become a Sun Country Pilot
This is a bit confusing as their airlineapps.com page lists an ATP as a "minimum" requirement:
"Minimum qualifications
Certification requirements:
• FAA issued Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) Airplane Multiengine Land certification"
https://www.airlineapps.com/jobs/det...=First-Officer
Why are they offering the ATP-CTP if applicants must already have the ATP ?
They also say “Legal right to work in the United States” which doesn't tell a whole lot. So the next question is: any chance of E3s ?
I see that Sun Country is now advertising a “Paid ATP-CPT certification” for new hires:
Sun Country Benefits ? Become a Sun Country Pilot
This is a bit confusing as their airlineapps.com page lists an ATP as a "minimum" requirement:
"Minimum qualifications
Certification requirements:
• FAA issued Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) Airplane Multiengine Land certification"
https://www.airlineapps.com/jobs/det...=First-Officer
Why are they offering the ATP-CTP if applicants must already have the ATP ?
They also say “Legal right to work in the United States” which doesn't tell a whole lot. So the next question is: any chance of E3s ?
Last edited by bafanguy; 29th October 2019 at 13:25.
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From: Sydney
I love your snooping BG.
On this website https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...untry_airlines there is no mention of the ATP requirement.
Possibly some of the lowest (advertised) minimums out there. Goes hand in hand with not cracking $100 per hour for the first 8 years.
Also states that contract is ammendable in Nov 2020.... Likely see a pay bump there I guess.
And yes, an excellent question. Do they take E3s? Well the floodgates are just opening up with Southern and Atlas...... So who will fall next in allowing the Australian scurge to fly in the US?
On this website https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...untry_airlines there is no mention of the ATP requirement.
Possibly some of the lowest (advertised) minimums out there. Goes hand in hand with not cracking $100 per hour for the first 8 years.
Also states that contract is ammendable in Nov 2020.... Likely see a pay bump there I guess.
And yes, an excellent question. Do they take E3s? Well the floodgates are just opening up with Southern and Atlas...... So who will fall next in allowing the Australian scurge to fly in the US?
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 481
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From: USA
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
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From: USA
Thread Starter
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Posts: 3,689
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From: USA
Mesa Airlines cadet program. Not sure if this is new or has been around a while...can't remember. Click on the picture for more details:
Mesa Air Group
Mesa Air Group
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From: USA
Piedmont Cadet Program. A little cash to grease the skids ?:
Piedmont Airlines Cadet Program
News article dated Oct.31:
Piedmont Airlines Launches New Cadet Pilot Program
Piedmont Airlines Cadet Program
News article dated Oct.31:
Piedmont Airlines Launches New Cadet Pilot Program