Southwest 767
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: FORT LAUDERDALE
Southwest 767
Just read on InterlineNetworking.com, that rumor of Southwest Airlines getting 767's is on the table. Anyone have any more info? Some seem to think a bigger craft other than the 737 is on the horizon.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 79
From: Denver
Why the 76?
IF the rumor is true - probably because WN is very, very big on commonality. It is a core part of their cost philosophy.
Which rules out Airbus (whole different design and operating philosophy from WN's core 73s).
Among Boeings - well, any wide-body will lack a lot of parts commonality, but the 76 cockpit layout and routine will be from the same "mind" that created the 73s that WN has standardized on for decades. An easy transition for pilots, if not for mechanics.
75? - not much capacity advantage over 739s, plus its forte is narrow-body long-range, and WN (if indeed looking for big jobs), is probably more in the market for wide-body, medium range.
77/78? Again, designs focused on long-haul, and more FBW than the 73/76.
74SR (Japanese style) might fit WN's high-density domestic needs to a T in terms of a short/medium-haul wide-body. But hasn't been offered for close to 30 years. And would complicate pilot transitions with the extra 2 engines.
As to why a bigger plane at all, I'd guess WN's growth means they have now some routes with enough traffic that moving 1,200 passengers a day with four airplanes (and 4 crews) instead of 6 aircraft (and 6 crews) makes sense.
Look at it this way. When WN absorbed AirTran, they dumped AirTrans' 71s for lacking commonality. Delta snapped them up on lease because they fit well with Delta's existing MDs - and Delta was able to replace two 50-seat regional jet flights with one 717. (Their stated reason for taking on the 717s).
IF the rumor is true - probably because WN is very, very big on commonality. It is a core part of their cost philosophy.
Which rules out Airbus (whole different design and operating philosophy from WN's core 73s).
Among Boeings - well, any wide-body will lack a lot of parts commonality, but the 76 cockpit layout and routine will be from the same "mind" that created the 73s that WN has standardized on for decades. An easy transition for pilots, if not for mechanics.
75? - not much capacity advantage over 739s, plus its forte is narrow-body long-range, and WN (if indeed looking for big jobs), is probably more in the market for wide-body, medium range.
77/78? Again, designs focused on long-haul, and more FBW than the 73/76.
74SR (Japanese style) might fit WN's high-density domestic needs to a T in terms of a short/medium-haul wide-body. But hasn't been offered for close to 30 years. And would complicate pilot transitions with the extra 2 engines.
As to why a bigger plane at all, I'd guess WN's growth means they have now some routes with enough traffic that moving 1,200 passengers a day with four airplanes (and 4 crews) instead of 6 aircraft (and 6 crews) makes sense.
Look at it this way. When WN absorbed AirTran, they dumped AirTrans' 71s for lacking commonality. Delta snapped them up on lease because they fit well with Delta's existing MDs - and Delta was able to replace two 50-seat regional jet flights with one 717. (Their stated reason for taking on the 717s).
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Ormond Beach
Originally Posted by pattern is full
Among Boeings - well, any wide-body will lack a lot of parts commonality, but the 76 cockpit layout and routine will be from the same "mind" that created the 73s that WN has standardized on for decades. An easy transition for pilots, if not for mechanics.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 79
From: Denver
As I said: "As to why a bigger plane at all, I'd guess WN's growth means they now have some routes with enough traffic, that moving 1,200 passengers a day with four airplanes (and 4 crews) instead of 6 aircraft (and 6 crews) makes sense."
73(7)s make up 62.5 percent of WN's fleet.
737 - max capacity, single class seating - 143
739 - max capacity, single class seating - 215 (50% capacity increase over 737)
763 - max capacity, single class seating - 305 (113% capacity increase over 737)
If more capacity is what you need, then more is better than more.
You might just as well question why any airline needs the A380. The answer is, they want to fly as many people as possible from an always-limited number of gates, or with the best expense/passenger-revenue ratio.
Interestingly, WN's busiest hub (233 departures daily) is now MDW (DAL ranks only 8th). MDW is not a large airport, and cannot grow (surrounded by city). If the market demand says WN could fly 50% more willing customers out of MDW...but they can't use more planes/departures (gates already full).....
Two 739s can replace 3 737s
Two 763s can replace 4 737s
73(7)s make up 62.5 percent of WN's fleet.
737 - max capacity, single class seating - 143
739 - max capacity, single class seating - 215 (50% capacity increase over 737)
763 - max capacity, single class seating - 305 (113% capacity increase over 737)
If more capacity is what you need, then more is better than more.
You might just as well question why any airline needs the A380. The answer is, they want to fly as many people as possible from an always-limited number of gates, or with the best expense/passenger-revenue ratio.
Interestingly, WN's busiest hub (233 departures daily) is now MDW (DAL ranks only 8th). MDW is not a large airport, and cannot grow (surrounded by city). If the market demand says WN could fly 50% more willing customers out of MDW...but they can't use more planes/departures (gates already full).....
Two 739s can replace 3 737s
Two 763s can replace 4 737s
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 1
From: Over the Pacific mostly
flyboyike why specifically the 76?
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,238
Likes: 69
From: EGNX
Interestingly, WN's busiest hub (233 departures daily) is now MDW (DAL ranks only 8th). MDW is not a large airport, and cannot grow (surrounded by city). If the market demand says WN could fly 50% more willing customers out of MDW...but they can't use more planes/departures (gates already full).....
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
From: Toledo, OH
SW
Southwest for the first time in its long history is talking about conducting international operations. Due to treaty requirements and agreements, Southwest could be limited in aircraft size and schedule thus the talk about 767's.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 79
From: Denver
Whether WN wants 76s (or any larger plane) is a rumor.
Why WN wants 76s (or any larger plane - if they actually do) is rumor and/or speculation
Why WN might want 76s in particular is also speculation. I like my idea, but I also appreciate rick's and Dominican's theories.
@Doors - could be. No, scratch that - you're right. MDW can't handle either a 739 or a 763, according to the published numbers.
I picked Midway because it happens to be their busiest hub - but the principle applies anyplace. More pax capacity without more gate capacity = bigger planes.
Why WN wants 76s (or any larger plane - if they actually do) is rumor and/or speculation
Why WN might want 76s in particular is also speculation. I like my idea, but I also appreciate rick's and Dominican's theories.
@Doors - could be. No, scratch that - you're right. MDW can't handle either a 739 or a 763, according to the published numbers.
I picked Midway because it happens to be their busiest hub - but the principle applies anyplace. More pax capacity without more gate capacity = bigger planes.
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,052
Likes: 72
From: Village of Santo Poco
Interesting discussion.
I, for one, have never heard Southwest mention anything other than the 73 in any of their material since they flew 727s for a short time way back in the days of the Dodo. I also understood the 767 production line to be closed (except for freighters), so they would have to scrounge up used ones (not that that would be too hard). Flight frequency has also historically been a part of their selling point, so replacing several 737s with a 767 would seem to conflict with that, but who knows?
I, for one, have never heard Southwest mention anything other than the 73 in any of their material since they flew 727s for a short time way back in the days of the Dodo. I also understood the 767 production line to be closed (except for freighters), so they would have to scrounge up used ones (not that that would be too hard). Flight frequency has also historically been a part of their selling point, so replacing several 737s with a 767 would seem to conflict with that, but who knows?
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
From: The Far Side
Still in production ...
Boeing, Air Astana Announce Order for Four 767-300ERs and Three 787 Dreamliners - Mar 1, 2012
I'll believe Southwest is getting them when I see it happen, though.
Boeing, Air Astana Announce Order for Four 767-300ERs and Three 787 Dreamliners - Mar 1, 2012
I'll believe Southwest is getting them when I see it happen, though.
