Fly4 airlines
 

Hi,

just wondering if anyone has more information regarding this start up ?
They are desperately seeking both Capt And FO on the B737
pay , rostering and commuting etc …..
it’s a joint venture between TUI and Enter Air and it’s to operate on behalf of TUI in the summer from some UK bases.
just wondering about their outlook and if it’s worth leaving a major LCC for this lot.

Do you have EASA licence/medical?

Yes both EASA and UK licence type rated B737

Kind of weird to have a non G reg airline operating out of UK bases. Not quite sure how that works, regulatory wise.

No great personal axe to grind here, but curious to see how that. works. Obviously targeted at EI pilots, but not sure how other nationalities fit into right to work in the UK?

They had an information document circulating a few months ago noting the following.

Captain

• €134,000 basic
• €40 p/h variable pay from 501 hours
• Total pay €149,000

First Officer

• €75,000 basic
• €24 p/h variable pay from 501 hours
• Total pay €84,576

Second Officer (Under 1,499 flt hours or not on type)

• €63,750 basic
• €18.50 variable pay from 501 hours
• Total pay €71,131

Allowances:

• Day Off Payment €400
• Uniforms (cleaning) €500
• Mobile phone allowance €500

Roster is 6/4 with others being considered
5% Employer / 5% Employee match pension

Shocking terms I doubt they will get anyone, especially not a European pilot considering the pay war and pilot shortages.

What could possibly go wrong?

Looks like Fly4 are due to operate TUI charter flights out of BHX, Lots of those flights are through the night, wondering have crew been made aware of that?

Plus in terms of flexibility required under contract with no further explanation is slightly concerning.

Most pilots fly during the night. Charter, long haul, low cost and freight. If they want a 9-5 job, aviation isn't for them.

I'm sure very few flying jobs are 9-5 but not every company does these deep nights on short haul landing back into the UK at 5, 6, 7, 8am regularly during the summer. It's brutal, and that is what is being referred to here.

do not touch with a MAX sized barge pole.

Heard reports this outfit is turning to **** already with mass resignations.
HOT has left as well as many Capts and FOs due to being pressured into flying into discretion. sector pay not being paid as well as other multiple issues. Some bad characters in leadership roles.

It didnt take long.

Looking at the 4 a/c currently operating out of EMA/BHX, their schedules seem no different than what TUI/Jet2 are routinely operating - out from 06.00, back late evening/early morning. There are some 02.00/03.00 arrivals, and with delays possibly later but I can't see any regular 5, 6, 7, 8am arrivals - which would knack the next days schedules.

Yes, the difference being that TUI and Jet2 have crew establishment to support those schedules where these guys do not. It's not the greatest surprise on earth.

Just wondering how things are progressing in Fly4 as I saw on a different thread that the airline is struggling to crew their operation?

What is the general feeling within the Flightdeck, any sign of increased pay or bases for Winter 24/25 and Summer 25?

I heard they’re considering more commuting options instead of 6/4. One good point for them is that positioning is on days off. Not very popular among this job

Dodgy little airline, are they still around? These ACMI-operators are getting worse by the minute😂

Any update on this

Additional recruitment for the Summer has finished now, four airframes will operate 100% wetlease for TUI UK again.

Still around?
 

How many airframes will be used for Tui and Enter this summer? Back to India in October?

All four are being placed with TUI again, two in AMS, NWI/BFS one each.

Second Officers
 

They seem to be hiring Second Officers on AAP aviation but the post is not there on the official website. Thoughts?

An absolute joke
 

The company suffers from highly incompetent leadership, resulting in massive turnover. Most of the original administrative staff and crew have already left, yet the company constantly hires new pilots despite a stagnant fleet. The CEO excels at self-promotion on LinkedIn, but his actual track record reveals a constant reliance on improvisation and poor decision-making. He struggles to close crucial deals, and management repeatedly demonstrates a careless approach to running the business.
Operational Inefficiency
Despite operating a small fleet of only four aircraft with well-planned schedules, the crewing department is completely disorganized. Rosters change constantly, and the company frequently double-books or triple-books flight tickets. Crew members are routinely dispatched inefficiently, such as crossing paths on the highway to send Birmingham (BHX) staff to East Midlands (EMA) while simultaneously sending EMA staff to BHX. Standby allocations are equally unbalanced, sometimes leaving five pilots at one base and zero at another. This operational chaos has resulted in lost contracts, a three-week standby fiasco in Münster, and multiple findings from the IAA for duty time violations.
Working Conditions and Contracts
The company uses chronic staff shortages as an excuse to enforce "flexible" contract terms, frequently forcing crew members to extend their rotations. Management constantly attempts to manipulate agreements to lower salaries and increase workloads, recently cutting day-off compensation from €800 to €500. Staff are treated poorly, evidenced by the firing and rehiring of almost all cabin crew last year. Furthermore, pilots were forced onto a poorly negotiated contract with SpiceJet in India on short notice, with the HR agency (AAP) threatening job losses for anyone who refused to sign.
Financial Strategy and Oversight
While the company benefits from a guaranteed summer income stream through the TUI group, they consistently fail to secure profitable winter operations. The constant turnover means management wastes significant money paying AAP for endless recruitment, cadet type ratings, and OCC for new pilots. The frontline staff is full of great people, but the leadership's malpractice is severely damaging the operation. Given the high standards of TUI and Enter Air, it raises the question of whether their respective boards are aware of the severe mismanagement occurring here.