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Originally Posted by 4engines4longhaul
(Post 11855239)
Just because people are in the training phase, it doesn’t necessarily mean that being asked to leave the business is training related. There are a whole raft of potential issues that can occur
I hope that BALPA are supporting them (yeah, I know!) |
Last year, Virgin outsourced its training program. However, following numerous complaints from both trainees and trainers, the external provider was discontinued. As a result, the training quality suffered. Holding the pilots responsible for any deficiencies, rather than acknowledging the lack of continuous monitoring and oversight by Virgin throughout the type rating course, fails to address the core issue.
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Whatever the reasons for their departure are, the recruitment department recruited 10 candidates who were deemed suitable. They turned out unsuitable and made untimely departures.
That is a failure of recruitment. |
Originally Posted by de fumo in flammam
(Post 11854971)
The final interview is... odd. Largely scenario based reactions to their DEI philosophy.
I offered conciliatory approaches (in flight) - the feedback was that they wanted immediate confrontation. Not my approach at all, so we didn't click. The ones they did take were on several counts, ones we were glad to see the back of. |
Originally Posted by srjumbo747
(Post 11854967)
There has been a lot of bad behaviour from a minority of new recruits.
Drunkenness, arrogance, throwing up in public, throwing punches due to alcohol, urinating in public, being rude and harassing cabin crew sexually, etc. Of course it’s ’not their fault’, it’s bad training. Nothing to do with being too young thinking they knew it all. Inexperienced with both long haul flying and life in general. Its today’s society blame someone else. Good riddance. Such a comment—"Good riddance"—is highly unprofessional and inappropriate, particularly from someone who appears to be affiliated with Virgin’s training program. It was Virgin that made the decision to hire inexperienced pilots for long-haul operations, with "inexperienced" being the key concern. This level of arrogance reflects a broader issue within Virgin’s training and hiring approach. |
Originally Posted by 787driver787
(Post 11855265)
Such a comment—"Good riddance"—is highly unprofessional and inappropriate, particularly from someone who appears to be affiliated with Virgin’s training program.
It was Virgin that made the decision to hire inexperienced pilots for long-haul operations, with "inexperienced" being the key concern. This level of arrogance reflects a broader issue within Virgin’s training and hiring approach. I do however, believe that anyone who sexually assaults, harasses or intimidates colleagues should be dismissed. Furthermore, it may be an old fashioned view, but throwing up in hotel pools, urinating in public, hitting colleagues might be acceptable in your book but it certainly is not in mine. |
Originally Posted by srjumbo747
(Post 11854967)
There has been a lot of bad behaviour from a minority of new recruits.
Drunkenness, arrogance, throwing up in public, throwing punches due to alcohol, urinating in public, being rude and harassing cabin crew sexually, etc. Of course it’s ’not their fault’, it’s bad training. Nothing to do with being too young thinking they knew it all. Inexperienced with both long haul flying and life in general. Its today’s society blame someone else. Good riddance. As a result, the training quality suffered. Holding the pilots responsible for any deficiencies, rather than acknowledging the lack of continuous monitoring and oversight by Virgin throughout the type rating course, fails to address the core issue. |
Is 787driver even employed by an airline?
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Originally Posted by srjumbo747
(Post 11855275)
I have nothing to do with any training program nor am in a position to comment on how someone operates an aircraft.
I do however, believe that anyone who sexually assaults, harasses or intimidates colleagues should be dismissed. Furthermore, it may be an old fashioned view, but throwing up in hotel pools, urinating in public, hitting colleagues might be acceptable in your book but it certainly is not in mine. I completely agree with the points mentioned above. However, they are unrelated to my original post regarding Virgin’s training practices. Regarding the sexual assault incident, it was Virgin's management pilots who supported the individual in question, disregarding HR’s recommendation for dismissal. This raises serious concerns about the company’s culture and leadership standards. |
Originally Posted by Climb150
(Post 11855277)
Is 787driver even employed by an airline?
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Lets not forget the massive financial penalty / bloody nose Virgin Atlantic has just received from pilots who spent the last 5 years dragging them to the employment tribunal, all claims settled to avoid what was looking to be a damning judgement against them.
Allegations of unfair dismissal, discrimination based on age/sex, targeting union officials and those who raised employment tribunal claims. Also, worryingly those who raised flight safety complaints targeted in return interviews, false information provided against them and ridiculed in internal e-mails by senior management and subject to regional prejudice. Using tax payer / furlough cash to pay the notice bills of hundreds of pilots whilst the senior leadership banked millions in bonuses. The list goes on. |
Originally Posted by 787driver787
(Post 11855278)
I completely agree with the points mentioned above. However, they are unrelated to my original post regarding Virgin’s training practices.
Regarding the sexual assault incident, it was Virgin's management pilots who supported the individual in question, disregarding HR’s recommendation for dismissal. This raises serious concerns about the company’s culture and leadership standards. You sound unusually emotive and resentful on the subject... do you have some personal involvement that motivates your position? |
[QUOTE=zero/zero;11855326]It was suggested that not all those that leave during training do so for performance/training issues, which is what is being alluded t
Odd scheduling in VS too. When a 787 does a MIA or TPA rotation it has three crew (extra relief copilot.) I noticed recently 330 Neo in MIA with only two crew. Slower cruise fatiging ,longer flight time than 787, but no relief pilot? |
Originally Posted by zero/zero
(Post 11855326)
It was suggested that not all those that leave during training do so for performance/training issues, which is what is being alluded to.
You sound unusually emotive and resentful on the subject... do you have some personal involvement that motivates your position? It’s concerning that Virgin’s management has taken such actions, which may reflect issues with their training standards rather than the employees themselves. Accountability is important in ensuring fair outcomes for staff |
Originally Posted by cessnapete
(Post 11856564)
Odd scheduling in VS too. When a 787 does a MIA or TPA rotation it has three crew (extra relief copilot.) I noticed recently 330 Neo in MIA with only two crew. Slower cruise fatiging ,longer flight time than 787, but no relief pilot? |
Rubbish
Originally Posted by 787driver787
(Post 11854770)
Warning to All Pilots Considering Virgin Atlantic
It has come to attention that a group of pilots, informally referred to within the aviation industry as The Virgin 10, (this number could be higher) have faced significant challenges during their training with Virgin Atlantic. This group, reportedly consisting of both type-rated and non-type-rated First Officers (FOs) and Senior First Officers (SFOs) recruited last year, allegedly received substandard training for their type ratings. Unfortunately, after failing to pass line training, these individuals were subsequently dismissed for not meeting the required standard. For the second-largest long-haul carrier in the UK, such actions raise serious concerns about training quality and fair treatment of pilots. If these reports are accurate, they reflect poorly on the airline’s management and training oversight. Additionally, there appears to be an ongoing trend of pilot departures, some leaving after just a year in the company, which may explain Virgin Atlantic’s continuous recruitment efforts. If you are considering joining Virgin Atlantic, exercise extreme caution. Reports indicate that the airline may not be providing adequate training support, and pilots who struggle to meet the required standard are being dismissed without proper remediation. This could put your career at risk. Prospective and current pilots should thoroughly research the company’s training programs and speak to current employees before making any commitments. I’m sorry 787 driver but every single thing you wrote is complete and utter rubbish. I can’t stand this childish behaviour by some individuals, and I say individuals because calling individuals like you a pilot is an insult to the great job we do. Seriously, if you hate Virgin Atlantic then be a man and just say so, nobody cares. There’s no need to start some fake BS story that doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. No, there is no Virgin10, nor will there be and the training at Virgin is just fine. Is it the greatest airline on the planet? No, far from it but one can make a pretty nice career being here, not every airline can be KLM, AF or Lufti. Please go spread phony stories on a proper platform like X or something and leave this for people who want good and reliable recruitment info, it’s not because you had a failed career others should as well mate. |
Originally Posted by Morninglory
(Post 11857478)
I’m sorry 787 driver but every single thing you wrote is complete and utter rubbish. I can’t stand this childish behaviour by some individuals, and I say individuals because calling individuals like you a pilot is an insult to the great job we do. Seriously, if you hate Virgin Atlantic then be a man and just say so, nobody cares. There’s no need to start some fake BS story that doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
No, there is no Virgin10, nor will there be and the training at Virgin is just fine. Is it the greatest airline on the planet? No, far from it but one can make a pretty nice career being here, not every airline can be KLM, AF or Lufti. Please go spread phony stories on a proper platform like X or something and leave this for people who want good and reliable recruitment info, it’s not because you had a failed career others should as well mate. If any of the points I have raised are in question, I encourage you to verify them with a current BALPA representative, who will be able to confirm their accuracy, as it has been raised with the company. |
Originally Posted by Morninglory
(Post 11857478)
I’m sorry 787 driver but every single thing you wrote is complete and utter rubbish. I can’t stand this childish behaviour by some individuals, and I say individuals because calling individuals like you a pilot is an insult to the great job we do. Seriously, if you hate Virgin Atlantic then be a man and just say so, nobody cares. There’s no need to start some fake BS story that doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
No, there is no Virgin10, nor will there be and the training at Virgin is just fine. Is it the greatest airline on the planet? No, far from it but one can make a pretty nice career being here, not every airline can be KLM, AF or Lufti. Please go spread phony stories on a proper platform like X or something and leave this for people who want good and reliable recruitment info, it’s not because you had a failed career others should as well mate. For any one thinking of joining VS (or any other airline), leverage your trusted contacts in the industry to get in touch with someone that actually works there to get the lowdown. Don’t listen to strangers on the internet posting diatribes with unknown axes to grind. |
Originally Posted by zero/zero
(Post 11857525)
Exactly what he said.
For any one thinking of joining VS (or any other airline), leverage your trusted contacts in the industry to get in touch with someone that actually works there to get the lowdown. Don’t listen to strangers on the internet posting diatribes with unknown axes to grind. If trusted industry contacts are not available, BALPA serves as one of the most impartial and reliable sources for accurate and comprehensive insights—who will undoubtedly confirm everything I have stated. |
Originally Posted by Morninglory
(Post 11857478)
I’m sorry 787 driver but every single thing you wrote is complete and utter rubbish. I can’t stand this childish behaviour by some individuals, and I say individuals because calling individuals like you a pilot is an insult to the great job we do. Seriously, if you hate Virgin Atlantic then be a man and just say so, nobody cares. There’s no need to start some fake BS story that doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
No, there is no Virgin10, nor will there be and the training at Virgin is just fine. Is it the greatest airline on the planet? No, far from it but one can make a pretty nice career being here, not every airline can be KLM, AF or Lufti. Please go spread phony stories on a proper platform like X or something and leave this for people who want good and reliable recruitment info, it’s not because you had a failed career others should as well mate. Are you VS management, or a management stooge? Is everyone else wrong, while you are right? Unlikely. Valid, and concerning issues have been raised. You may not like that, tough. Heres a hint matey, look at the title of this sight. There’s a clue for you. Promoting X, just made me laugh. |
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