To add onto this...Zenon also have zero flexibility when it comes to filtering etc. I applied about 3 years back and at the time I applied I had 2450 hours, so they offered me the FO scale, yet if I'd had 2500 hours I'd have gone straight onto the SFO pay scale. This was despite telling them that after working my next months roster I'd have 2500+ and more than likely 3000 by the time I joined. Still, computer said no and I thus declined to go any further. So in your case, unlikely to get through but by all means try.

You must be getting preferential treatment or have worked for some pretty awful company’s but Virgin is NO longer one of the best gigs in the UK. It’s now a low cost airline from the employees point of view. In the years I have been here to T&Cs have been going backwards and just recently dropped off a cliff. Morale is the worst I have seen in any airline I’ve worked for and there are people leaving.

The figure Balvenie quotes for allowances are accurate. For example all 3 day India trips 100-120$. A 4 day South Africa trip $90. A 4 day Pakistan trip $120. A 4-6 day Caribbean trip ( all inclusive hotel ) $30 .

In a nutshell , yes.

Go on then, what’s a better airline gig in the UK?


looking at my last few trips allowance wise,

$285 $254 (both two night trips) $173 $163 $148 for one night whether it’s good or bad I don’t know, but sounds like you need to get on the Airbus 😉

BA, Tui, Jet2 , Norse, EasyJet, Ryanair for a whole plethora of reasons.

Virgin 2.0 is low cost long haul with all the disadvantages of long haul but none of the pluses of a low cost lifestyle.

I know plenty of guys regretting leaving the Middle East to come here as an FO again , take the big pay cut for the lifestyle. The lifestyle has gone, just a copy of Middle East carriers now but the pay is nothing like it !

But it’s horses for courses, you seem happy with you’re lot so I guess some people think it’s still ok !!!

nah, I’ve already been made redundant before , you’re welcome to it

Are you joking? A year 1 Jet2 or Easyjet Captain would take 15 years to get back to the same payscale, work harder and have to move to London. If the former stayed put they will be flying to Barbados in the LHS quicker than if they joined Virgin.

​​​​​I was shocked when I seen those payscales, I thought Virgin guys were well paid, I was incorrect.

TUI and Jet2 are the best gigs in the U.K.
Shocked at those payscales to be honest.

I thought that might be the case and is supposedly the reason my airline doesn’t allow FOs to take the LST. Historically they were losing too many experienced FOs to other carriers back when the ME3 also required an ATPL. I believe they responded by dropping that requirement. At least that’s how I’ve understood it from talking to my colleagues. I guess Virgin still have the luxury of being picky. Will probably throw an application in anyway. Thanks for all the replies and input folks.

white skunk,
you really need to stay in Harry ramsdens land and allow professional pilots to discuss our improved terms and conditions, life style and ……. STAFF TRAVEL, 5 STARR RESORTS.
You get yourself and family down the Leeds ibis, sun yourself in Yorkshire sunshine

I’ve worked for two of the above airlines and believe me it’s not pretty! I guess it depends on what your priorities are but for me short haul is a very tough gig.

That being said I get your points and stand corrected! It may not be the best gig in the UK but it’s one of the better jobs out there depending on your circumstances.

I was made redundant and soon realised very quickly how difficult it is to earn a fraction of what I was getting at Virgin doing a much harder job.

Much better than being jetlagged and not be able to enjoy your off time with your family at all - all for the same pay. Enjoy your time at 5 star resort while you're away of what matters in life. Like it or not, Virgin pay is poor compared to other LH gigs.

Different strokes for different folks. Know thyself, what you want from your flying job, what you want from life outside, do the research then apply.

Different people are looking for different things …Virgin might be a great choice for some people, others will be better off at a different gig. I think it’s easy to fall into the trap in these airline-specific threads (I’m seeing it in the BA thread) of thinking everyone thinks like me, is in the same financial situation as me, and is looking for the same things as me.

The good news is in the space of a week, the options for people to look elsewhere have gotten much better.

Spot on - not everyone is the same or have similar priorities. I was about to get my CV fired up, but now that I looked at that pay scale I can't justify a pay-cut of £300k plus over the next 10 years until I get a shot into a position I already have. While VS have a lot of really nice perks, they still fall short on the long run. Wish I was 21 again!

spot on and totally agree.

Correct. Personally I have a far better overall quality of life doing long haul over short haul, having experienced both. Jetlag is usually gone after the first night if managed correctly.

Unfortunately every thread about pay and conditions is hijacked by a particular delusional company lapdog who can’t miss an opportunity to come onto an anonymous public forum and attempt to justify his life choices, so these threads just become a phallus waving contest whilst completely ignoring the fact that everybody is different. Given my life experience, I could never go to a short haul only airline (and no, Jet2 won’t be flying to Barbados any time soon), the same way others couldn’t go to a long haul only airline. Horses for courses.

Thanks to the VS folk who have given some info on this thread. I am seeking a bit more info if you have the time.

Trying to find a reason to apply, so looking past the salary scales. Lifestyle is important to me, I live up North and would plan to commute (kids settled in school etc).
If the above post regarding EASA FTL’s and 900hrs is true, is this going to be achievable?
I’m assuming commuters make it work by arriving into LHR night before, trip, then head home on same day after landing.

How many trips are people doing and how are the blocks of days off arranged? (Assuming boeing fleet).

Are the majority of trips bullets? Or is there a good mix even if junior? Do juniors get USA trips regularly on the 787?

How many days leave/year and how many days off a month is typical?

Staff Travel? Anything special or just usual ID90 standby?
Easy to take partner on a trip?

Allowances. Seems to be a bit of uncertainty whether it’s the previous system of a few hundred bucks or the HMRC minimum?

Finally, Overtime. Is there much available? Is it all last minute on the day or could you pick it up as a commuter with a bit of notice?

Thanks.

Living up north is no problem.
Pilots sometimes come down the day before, especially if its an early check in, otherwise most travel down on the day. Really depends how far north you are.

900hrs is the legal maximum, is it achievable, I don't think so, but I do think 800-850 is achievable.

4-5 trips a month, usually 2-3 days off after a trip depending on length of the trip.

Good mix of trips, west coast the majority are 2 nighters, east coast and florida are mainly bullets, as are India, Pakistan is 2-3 night due to the schedule.

Good mix no matter what your seniority is. Its a rotating bid group system, which is wip but will improve.

35 days leave per annum, with 1 day extra per year up to year 10... I think.

Days off per month minimum 10.

Staff travel is good especially with Virgin, standby fares, zed fares, mates rates etc.... ID90 with all over carriers.

Allowance are HMRC global rates.

Overtime, yes plenty for now, but if your full time and only fancy 1 or 2 days off you might be able to move a trip perhaps a day or 2 forward, but If you have a family and plan your life once the roster is out, I'd forget overtime. Unless you for example have a week of annual leave in the middle of school term, and by chance they need extra working, you might be ok.

Speedbrakes Up

Thank you, that’s exactly the info I was looking for.

Well - here I am, 15 years served in VAA and skipper on the A330. Made redundant with no reference to seniority. "Failed" my return interview from the hold pool with an unblemished 15 year record. Used to be a union rep. Probably just coincidence!

.....yeah - great gig.

Think very carefully and do your research diligently.

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I live up North and would plan to commute (kids settled in school etc).

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commuting prior to COVID was feasible, from up north or the continent, post COVID it is substantially more difficult. Rosters now only give the minimum required, by agreement or EASA rules. At least half of all trips now only have 2 days off afterwards. This includes India trips which tend to finish late, followed by 2 days off which then can be followed by early Caribbean / USA trips which require commuting the day prior.

Other considerations for commuting, which maybe short term, but are significant at the moment - hotac at LHR has become quite expensive even with staff rates, getting standby seats is almost impossible this summer with lots of last minute cancellations, trains are also very difficult with strikes etc. Rosters, whilst they have stabilised in the last six months are no longer as stable as they used to be due to changes in our scheduling agreement and booking confirmed non refundable tickets (plane/train) is much more of a gamble.

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If the above post regarding EASA FTL’s and 900hrs is true, is this going to be achievable?

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This is true and more than achievable.regularly roster 80-90+ hrs a month, sometimes with a block of standby or week of leave thrown into the month too !!

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I’m assuming commuters make it work by arriving into LHR night before, trip, then head home on same day after landing.

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see the answer above, but if you do this you may find you only have 1 clear night at home.

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How many trips are people doing and how are the blocks of days off arranged? (Assuming boeing fleet).

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Full time 5 trips+. All trips have 2 days off, 5 out of 7 west coast trips have 3 days off, don’t expect to get any more off than that. Quite possible to be rostered 2 west coast trips with 2 days off within a block of 8 days.

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Are the majority of trips bullets? Or is there a good mix even if junior? Do juniors get USA trips regularly on the 787?

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Almost all trips at least 3 day pattern, 20-24hrs down route. Lot of night flying. Majority of route network USA

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How many days leave/year and how many days off a month is typical?

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35 days , upto 40 days after 5 years. Minimum 10 days pm, however read that as maximum because roster will be filled with a block of standby to use up spare days

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Staff Travel? Anything special or just usual ID90 standby?

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Usual interline agreements, ID90s. After 10 years (used to be 5 years) get annual free tickets (1 trip for a family must pay taxes) usually confirmed unless book in busy times

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Easy to take partner on a trip?

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Usually

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Allowances. Seems to be a bit of uncertainty whether it’s the previous system of a few hundred bucks or the HMRC minimum?

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No uncertainty, it is HMRC rates, if you’re going to India /Pakistan/South Africa around $90-120 for a trip. All inclusive in some Caribbean destinations so almost nothing.

USA trips is more approx $200-240 over a 4 day trip (2 nights down route) but considering the cost of living in the big cities we fly to don’t expect to be able to bring much home

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Finally, Overtime. Is there much available? Is it all last minute on the day or could you pick it up as a commuter with a bit of notice?

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There is a lot available, at the moment, but you have to live by your phone as it goes quickly and also be willing to not plan your life if you want to do it. Depending on your commute, it can be difficult.