Cheers for the reply Mesh. I got some private messages from others but I can't access them yet as I'm a new joiner...

What's the rough gross for an FO/SFO now including DP and sector pay?

FO basic is now just north of 75k. SFO just shy of 85k. Sector and duty in the RHS roughly 4/5k across the year.

Edited to say, not now, but from April onwards

really nice surprise and not a union intervention to be seen, and relax

are you sure about that?

No word
 

Hi all, NTR FO applicant here...since June... and no word since Sept stating 'your application is still under consideration and you should hear from us within 3-4 weeks'.

Anyone else had similar?

TIA

Are you trying to say the pay rise is down to the union?

Are you union relationship so bad in Jet2?

Maybe BALPA have run it’s course as clearly a lot of Jet2 pilot do not want to join them for reason

In the time of covid they made pilots redundant just curious did they keep them on the furlough scheme?

Just be nice to know if you are looked after at a time of crisis such as covid provided of course the company were allowed access to the furlough money to pay the redundant pilots

The word on the street is that the knee jerk reaction by the bean counters was to chop ~400 pilots to save cash outflow. They were talked down but still required just over 100 redundancies which were pilots who had just joined and were under training or had recently completed their training. LIFO unfortunately.

if you are in Jet2, then you’ll be well aware of the caveat to the pay letter and the fact that BALPA is yet to meet with the company for pay negotiations for the coming year.

By the sounds of it at least those sadly made redundant were payed the furlough money the entire time

I don’t think you understand the concept of furlough. It was money paid by the government to keep people employed. If you were made redundant, you were sadly no longer employed, therefore did not qualify for furlough payments. Those that were furloughed had their pay increased to 70% of normal basic by Jet2. Pretty good deal as far as I can see.

I didn’t explain it well, what I meant was that companies like for example EasyJet and Norwegian at the time made pilots redundant but claimed the maximum for them up to £2500 minus tax so effectively despite no longer being with the company they were still kept on the books, my question is did Jet2 do that for the pilots they made redundant? After all Jet2 was financially more stable than other operators.

Furlough and redundancy is a completely different thing here in the U.K. it’s not how it is in the USA.

they were either made redundant (no money and not officially employed) or they were furloughed (still on the books employed but were supplemented by the government). Not both.

hope that helps.

If anyone has passed their assessment recently could you drop me a PM? DEC 73. Ta.

Assuming you’ve got an upcoming assessment (congrats), would you share roughly when you first applied? Thx.

earlier in 2022, already passed but no comms since.

Ah, okay, congrats. I applied in June, but didn’t have my U.K. licence until recently, did you apply before or after me? Thx.

Meeson is always two steps ahead of BALPA, even in the Channex days. As long as he is the boss the membership will never be significant.

Absolutely, and it seems to work :)

yup there seems to be many who are in the same boat as you and never heard after those 4 weeks. The majority I know of are non-airbus rated whereas the ones with an Airbus rating have been called forward.

Perhaps something to do with their changing requirements and the new order.

As far as it is possible to tell without insider knowledge of training, there is no shortage of promotable F/O’s for the B737 and many more who will meet the requirements next winter. So most DEC recruitment will probably be for type rated Airbus Captains. Doesn’t mean there will be no DEC for 737, but probably not many.

Had anyone non TR been called out of the hold pool recently?! I know guys who have passed assessment who seem to have been treading water for an awfully long time with no update! I hope they're not wasting people's time and doing assessments without the jobs for them.

this is completely incorrect

The hold pool was emptied last May before recruitment and all were asked to apply again. Therefore the hold can't have been that long!!

can you please explain what the process would be then?

I’m seriously considering moving to Jet2 from TUI but I’d be taking a significant pay cut and with command fast approaching here, I don’t want to jump and then extend that wait unreasonably.

None of my business, so feel free to ignore the question.

But was curios why you would want to leave TUI? Especially if you're coming up for command

it’s a perfectly valid question.

There’s a few different reasons but top of my list right now:
- our management seem to be completely blinkered to the damage our brand and reputation have taken as a direct result of their mismanagement of certain areas of the product because it all still works on their spreadsheets (apparently).
- I’m also in one of the regional bases and I fear that in 30 years when I retire we may not have many regional bases left. I know the same could be said for Jet2 or indeed any operator but Jet2 seem more committed to the regions than anyone else - as far as can tell.

If I were in MAN/BHX/LGW or I wanted to move to one of those bases I probably wouldn’t be considering leaving and would continue on, hoping that the management either see sense or move on.

By the sounds of things Jet2 are breathing down TUIs neck .
Maybe better to jump ship now than being pushed ?
All speculative of course , but no smoke without fire

Whats your answer then? What does the book say? I have just had a quick look and you need 3 check reports minimum so can’t see how my earlier answer is wrong? I dont usually print incorrect info as I’m here to help but will always stand corrected. Let me know and I will look it up.

cheers

M

From what I've heard from those in J2 SFO can be applied for 6 months after final line check as long as you have the
factored hours, SIM was to a good standard and you have the recommendation from your base Capt. For those with the hours that
means around 10 - 12 months. I'm not in J2 personally but have friends who are who have achieved it during that time frame. 👍

The fact that there seems to be either mixed info on what is required or, there is a disparity between what the manuals say and what actually happens, does cause me concern. It would be great to hear from someone who has gone through the FO-SFO process in 6-12 months otherwise, I would have to base any decisions based on what the manuals say which as mesh has alluded to is an 18-24 month process.

For clarity - I don't for one second claim to be a sky god and expect a command within 5 minutes of getting in the door but it would be nice to make a somewhat lateral move.

As I stated earlier in this post you are qualified in terms of factored hours. You will be time limited by your checks and how well they go and how quickly you get them. The book states 3 sim checks and 2 line checks MINIMUM before you can apply. If someone would like to show me where it doesn’t say this and I’m completely wrong then please do. Let’s assume I’m not making it up. You join, take 2 months to finish your induction, ground school bits, sims and line training and that’s not over generous. You pass with flying colours and bag a sim check and a line check. You now have 2 more sim checks and another line check to bag before you can apply to your base team. If you believe some here that that’s possible then ok go for it. If you are based in Leeds you may be able to beg, borrow some checks or have them thrust on you as you are easy stand in material. But if you are in one of the more regional bases you will not get this done as easily. I’m just trying to tell you the average. You will always have someone who has done it quicker but I wouldn’t make your next career move on these figures. As always I stand to be corrected but remember I’m talking averages.

It’s not a case that Meeson is one step ahead of Balpa – the union secured trade union recognition despite the company doing its best to persuade pilots from support a length campaign to gain recognition rights. Balpa remains recognised for collective bargaining purposes – but the statutory recognition agreement forced upon the company by the Central Arbitration Committee is not fit for purpose. It allows for a hostile employer like Jet2 to circumvent the prescribed negotiation steps.

Remember what Jet2 was like before union recognition, pilots were some of the lowest paid in the UK. In spite of the fact that Jet2 take an unconventional approach to union engagement, it is worth noting how far the company has progressed since BALPA won a hard-fought campaign for union recognition in 2010-2011. It is incredible to see the company thrive in such a competitive market and in doing so, recognise and award its crew accordingly. Jet2 has clearly developed to become a market leader - however, it could be argued that part of the company’s campaign to undermine collective bargaining is to announce pay increases before the union has been permitted (through the steps prescribed in the statutory recognition agreement) to submit a pay claim. Great whilst the going is good - but buyer beware - what an employer gives with one hand can be taken back with the other - without a strong trade union.



Jet2 was forced to concede at the Hight Court in an appeal hearing just for the company to recognise that ‘hour’s are in scope of pay bargaining. The company has only rostering protocols in place so no agreements or real protections. These protocols were agreed with the PLOG a pilot group sponsored and promoted by Jet2 to undermine Balpa. Ryanair used to have something similar, Wizz currently do. So although Jet2 seems a great place – you would not have the same agreements, protections as you would in easyJet or TUI for example. The company culture is that it resists all trade unions. why? Trade unions speak as a collective wish to address an imbalance of power. It is that simple. If pilots want a voice then they need to get behind the recognised union - it will be too late to build organisation at short notice if something significant happened at Jet2

Thanks for the answer

I guess I still have rose tinted glasses from my time in Thomson (even though I was made redundant) best job I ever had

I joined on the 737 in Jan 2022 as an experienced FO, final line check was in April, SFO upgrade went through 6 months later in October. The OM-A states 3 "check reports" as a requirement, not specifically sim checks. For me that was the initial LPC/OPC, a line check, and a recurrent sim. No extra stand-in sims or anything like that. You also need the approval of base management who are checking a load of "Personal Performance" and CRM-type requirements too. So it's do-able in that time frame, I'm nobody special. Having said that, not everyone on my intake got the SFO upgrade in minimum time as there's no room for any snags on those 3 checks, those guys will wait until their next check (which will hopefully go smoothly and not delay things too much for them).

Thanks for that, that's really helpful.

I stand corrected, the 2 line checks is for command.

Anyone have any up to date info on the current selection process for NTR DEC? Is the info on latest pilot jobs correct?

Psychometric tests, interview, group exercise, sim?

Many thanks