It's a moot point anyway if the accommodation allowance isn't available to new joiners.

Is that an official policy? If it is then BA sounds charming. You might have a million valid reasons for turning them down at that point. If the door is to remain closed after that, then is that the kind of company you want to work for?

Exactly!! Probably a good few years before it becomes worthwhile as well, might as well have earned a lot more money with EK even though they have their problems as well.

Simply put, BA is no longer what they used to be, the airline has been destroyed.

I am extremely junior (>90% down my list) and what makes it bearable is the swapping. I get nothing i want from JSS but can often get a good roster by swapping. It helps living close to base and being flexible.

Senior Bods have not control at EK. We do not have a bidding system, we have a "roster optimisation system". Optimised for the company that is, not the crew.

BA vs. EK? I can't believe anybody can even ask the question.

Roster swapping does indeed help to mitigate the failings of JSS for the juniors. Successfully doing so however means being married to your iPad and obsessively checking every single open time notification to get something satisfactory (because let's face it, no-one's going to swap their midweek LCA for your weekend 2 day 6). For me as a junior, the hours I spend trying to piece together a sensible roster probably rise into double digits every month.

I don't know much about EK - the Middle East has never appealed (yet). But JSS is certainly making those in the lower third of BA's ranks (myself included) think long and hard about whether it's worth it any more. BA have historically always paid less than the competitors in the early years, but have instead offered lifestyle options and a decent pay-scale, pension and rostering system. I'd argue at least 3 out of 4 of those no longer exist.

Personally I think if you're young, and can afford to sacrifice 5 years of your life, BA might still be worth it in the long run - IF you want long haul. Bear in mind however - as mentioned elsewhere, the company want long haul trips to become 24 hour night stops in airport hotels. If that happens, there'll be no point whatsoever.

A very, very good point!

Mrs. Dupre gets quite annoyed at the amount of time I'm glued to the ipad.

Attrition at BA which is not due to retirements will be negligible compared to EK. The numbers of those moving from EK to BA or at least trying to, will far outweigh any making the move in the reverse direction or those wanting to leave BA for elsewhere. Those that do leave BA to continue flying, will almost always do it for lifestyle reasons and BA trumps EK on lifestyle, irrespective of how upbeat you try and portray EK from a lifestyle perspective. The million dollar question is if this disparity will continue to exist in favour of BA pilots, in the years and decades ahead.

I agree with your first sentence.

Second one already is not really correct anymore - e.g. RYR new CLA deal in Italy for instance is really not bad IF it is a base you want and you DO NOT need to commute. Fine for me, I enjoy 5/4 and a not really bad salary(actually a better one that I had during my fantastic time with Qatar in the other dictatorship due to a very very bad Euro-Dollar exchange rate many years ago).

If you join one of the other gigs you mentioned as an experienced skipper AND you make it really into the mainline(seems BA went already a bit down the drain) then it means you go RH seat for at least 10 years again HOW could that be anything ok financially but as well "quality of life wise"?
EZY might be ok(maybe a bit to much "british company culture" for a mainland european, but hey. Problem with EZY is the very limited availability of good bases so you would not need to commute back and forth between work and family - HOW would that make you enjoy life?

Very onesided review of yours I must say. RYR has it's defintive downsides BUT the 5/4 on your base that you are living at with your family(preferably Italy as it is pretty good tax and salary wise on a RYR contract), THAT is QUALITY of life. Every day at home, NO commute, good salary.

To be honest it is much more likely to get a base you DO fancy in RYR then it would be in any other company you mentioned. Simple as that. There are all the known downsides in RYR(my god, I buy a black trouser and use the white shirts of my previous employers, big deal), I always prefer to be AT HOME with my family and not anymore in bloody hotels all around the world. Again - THAT is quality of life. Who cares which paintjob the bird has, honestly. Grow up.

The few I know through mutual acquaintances that have left in recent years, generally seem to be on the 787 or 777 but that is perhaps not a surprise as they were on the 777 at EK. I can't comment for any 380 pilots who may have left EK.

I personally know one who is about to jump soon with another not far behind.

10 years and then some at EK on the 777, and I can gladly as well as happily say I escaped with both my health and sanity intact.
Whilst BA might not be the place it was 10 to 15 years ago, it is night and day vs EK.
Plenty have left EK and ended up at BA, mostly via RYR or Norwegian rather than directly.
Do yourself a big fat favour, and if you have the option, choose BA over EK.

Rex

Until the day that EK embraces the concept of part time working, BA will always be a step above when it comes to lifestyle.

The Arabs are less of a concern, to be honest but the problem lies with the bureaucracy, lack of accountability and overall inefficiency that proliferates within the many 'empires' that have been created within the company, by those who are generally from the sub-continent. They will be responsible for leave allocation, rostering etc and therefore will have more influence over your day to day work/life balance. Many senior management positions are held by westerners here in EK, so greedy capitalism has existed for some time but it was simply exported to the Middle East and perfected, before it was exploited closer to home. :}

Never underestimate the power of a union, even if the overall effectiveness of BALPA may be a moot point for some of your colleagues.

Alex
Too much of their, BA Management and they - don't you mean I I and I?

How many full nights (8 to 8) does a T7 pilot spend home at DXB on an yearly aggregate, leave included? And BA?

Home many complete days, i.e. 24hrs?

That metrics is not simplistic at all, allows a bit of comparison against the SH jobs, and high earners in different industries to some extent too.

I think the carrier that offers part time might be the better one.

Whether or not you choose EK over BA really all depends on what you want and your own personal circumstances.
If you want the opportunity to eventually work part-time, go for BA, EK doesn't offer this, and there seems to be no desire from EK's side to make any lifestyle enhancements. Having said that, wether or not the rosters are awful depends a lot on your position within the company. At the moment the 777 guys are suffering with many more turn arounds than the A380 fleet, however, this will change with the arrival of the A330's next year.

As for pay, it's expensive to establish yourself in Dubai, upon joining you'll face a lot of costs at once, however the earnings potential is very good. I am mid 30's, LHS for a few years now and receive the accommodation allowance. This means every month I get 14K Euro's, excluding flight pay and other allowances, which then drives the total compensation up to 16-17K. Make of that what you will, but for somebody mid 30's thats an extremely good salary. On top of this there is close to 2K USD going in to the provident fund every month, mine when I leave.

Obviously Dubai is expensive, very expensive for certain things, but if you shop smart on layovers you can certainly cut down on your grocery bills etc. So far I've managed to acquire several properties in my home country with only a small mortgage, meaning that if I really wanted to, I could retire already and I certainly won't have to work till 65. If I re-invest my rental income I can buy another property every 5-6 years or so.

Having little control over your schedule can at times be annoying, however EK offer plenty of career choices, if you decide to take up on of the opportunities offered within the company you can greatly enhance your lifestyle. Plenty of people have taken that opportunity, and now enjoy decent rosters compared to some people who only fly the line, if you put in the work you can expect the results. The race to the bottom seems to be in full gear, and with Terms & Conditions under threat within IAG, schedules becoming tight, and hotels also moving to the location EK seems to prefer, how much different will it be in the long run?

Do I miss a union, transparency and sometimes simply honesty from EK? Yes, I think most of us do. But we knew what we signed up for, and to be quite honest, when I was a BALPA member I was simply shocked by their ineffectiveness, lot's of talking, very very little action. I know the individual rep's put in a lot of work, however if the judicial system restricts the union from having any real teeth, it becomes a waste of time as well.

Would I join EK when I had a stable job in Europe with a family when I was in my mid 30's, probably not, knowing what I know now. Having said that, plenty of guys have done it, and plenty are still happy. Would I join again in my mid 20's, with a chance of a widebody command, the package EK offer, and the chance to set myself up for life, yes I would.

People have vastly different views on EK, depending on their own personal situation. Nobody really calls Dubai home, and we are all working on an exit plan one way or another, and depending on how accustomed you become to life here, and your spending habits, it is fairly easy to put in 15 years, then re-asses the situation when you are late 30's or early 40's. It still leaves you with another 20 years of flying ahead, and if you can do that back in Europe, part-time, on a shared roster, or anything along those lines, without having to worry too much anymore about your pension etc, then maybe in terms of a career, the type of flying and life experience, it is more rewarding then spending 40 years in BA.