EasyJet "for the love of flying" DEC
 

Hi can anyone offer a bit more insight to the actual T&C?

UK Captains
Permanent contract plus benefits
On Target Earnings*: £116,303
*(including basic salary, sector pay, bonus opportunity)

rostering, basic pay, pension, LOLI, Health care?

Thanks

You sure you remember how to set your own reverse thrust? ;-)

😂 the what.

Interesting question from a BA pilot. I am in the hold pool for now but will probably stay orange what ever happens.

Interesting indeed. I'm not a captain but the T&C's are there for all to see.

Rostering - 5 lates, 4 off, 5 earlies, 3 off. 28 days reserve (flexi roster) once every 5 months roughly. Various options for preferential bidding coming April next year, so we're told (all lates/earlies, no nightstops/transitions, etc).
Basic - £98,500 approx. Reduced to 90% for first 6 months.
Sector pay - £30 approx for nominal sector (x .8 short, 1.2 med, 1.5 long, 2.5 extra long). Expect probably about £1,200pm.
Pension - minimum 2% from you, 7% from company.
LOL - 1.3x basic salary unless you up it yourself.
Bonus - 2yr anniversary = 5% basic, 5yr = 10%, 10yr+ = 15%. Christmas bonus if PBT met and/or management feel like it.
Healthcare - none. Company said they'd look into it which ultimately means it's not happening any time soon.

Worth noting that basic/sector pay will increase by RPI+2% in October if the latest pay deal goes through.

Have to say I've never heard of anyone leaving BA to come to EZY. I have however heard of several (long serving) captains, swathes of FOs and even the occasional trainer all leaving to sit in the right hand seat at BA. If you can do 5 long days on the trot with your roster changing in-between then you'll cope, otherwise I'd factor in going 75% at some stage.

I too am in the pool for BA and have umm'd and aah'd for several months now, but am pretty sure I'll make the move if the opportunity arises. Do remember, seniority means nothing in EZY - in x many years, you'll still be doing the same 5 brutal earlies. It'll only get better for you at BA.

On the plus side for EZY of course - home every night (nearly), great people, great training, lots of bases.

We had/have many, even former Concorde pilots, retiring at 55 with final salary at BA and then fly for us.

With the risk of a bit of thread creep; Over the last few years we had quiet a few new joiners joining Shorthaul or directly onto Longhaul. Most had 1000's of hours and it was just luck of the draw on which fleet you would join.

The direct entry LH joiners are at the bottom of their fleet seniority list an will work mostly blind lines and therefor weekends, because they are less then 5 years in the company (unlike most their LH fleet colleagues) they do more reserve periods as well. They will stay at the bottom for a long period (4-5 years) as people who are more senior move onto their fleet above them. They do have the benefit of joining LH and having a relatively easier roster with more days off.

The FPP and direct entry SH joiners on the other hand are screaming up the fleet seniority list by almost 30% a year and are therefor getting relatively quickly senior on their fleet. With the seniority comes that their bidding power increases and they do get the lines of work they bid for, two years in and you could for example easily get 2 weekends off. The downside of SH is the busy rosters, multi sector days in and out of LHR and generally fewer days off each month then the LH fleets.

Then we had commands go very junior last year. A lot couldn't resist the left seat. But by doing so they joined at the bottom of the fleet seniority list and most likely will stay at the bottom for a very long time (10 years) (unless they decide to move seat again). By being at the bottom of the P1 fleet seniority list you will work only blind lines with lots of weekends and Time Assignable, also since the lines are less efficient your flight and duty pay aren't as high resulting in the pay increase from the RHS to the LHS being not that big.

Overall the beauty is you can adjust your work and career to suit your needs. It's all about choices and every option has got some good bits and some bad bits and you have to choose what best suits you. You just can't have it all (unless you are number 1 on the seniority list).

A 'bit' of thread creap? Jumbo is this a joke? I'm also in the hold pool for BA but if i want to read about them in that much detail, I'll go to the other thread!

I am at BA and I can defiantly see the advantages of going to Easy, but as has been mentioned I am put off by the lack of pilots moving in that direction. All the pilots I speak to that moved from Easy say they would not go back so I guess they are worth listening to, is it really that harder work and is there anyone here that would go back?

I am trying to work out if I am suffering from greener grass syndrome or if I am being swayed by the lure of a quicker command. Also I might be looking at Easy with rose tinted glasses because of my disalusion with some aspects of BA.

Would be interesting to get some balanced arguments on this.

Enzo,

Very similar position to yourself. I am seriously considering applying to EZY. I regret having joined a 20 year wait for long haul command, and I can't see SH dropping so low again, as we have so many really junior SH captains now who will be in the seat for 18 years. And there is no retirement bubble approaching like so many hope. Most capts seem to be in their 40's & 50's.

Coupled in with very little roster satisfaction, and perpetual RSV months, I think my mind has been made up. I just wonder if I'm orange material?

Apparently quite a few have been leaving BA recently too. Im sure there is some way of checking on the master rosters to back up the rumours. It'd be great to hear from some that have moved on to find out if they have any regrets.

Quick questions...

1. What is LOL? see it all over pprune but never heard of it elsewhere!

2. Referring to
"Bonus - 2yr anniversary = 5% basic, 5yr = 10%, 10yr+ = 15%"
Is this 5% basic in years 2,3,4 then 10% in years 6,7,8,9 then 15% in years 10,11,12.....?
Or is it 5% in year 2, 10% in year 5, 15% in year 10.

Also is the 5% based on your annual basic salary i.e. 5% is a bonus of £4925?

Lastly is this bonus guaranteed and written in the contract? Or is it discretionary/performance based?

Thanks!

Loss of License
Basically an insurance if one was to loose his/her license the insurance would pay out.

Dupre..

LOL is loss of Licence.

Bonus is paid every year. Not performance based but we can earn extra in perf based bonus as well....sometimes 3k. You are right the first time.... Payment of bonus is 5% in yrs 2,3,4 10% in yrs 5,6,7,8,9..15% beyond that. Mine is 2004 date of join, so now firmly in the 15% so really its £115k base salary for me.

Guaranteed bonus.

I should think the thought of 5 lates recover 5 earlies recover repeat to the end of time, would be enough to put most off. The comment about 75% in post #5 is the coup de grace!

I'm LHS at easy having been here 14 years.

The simple way I look at it, I am at a regional base, live close to the airport, earning the same as the rest of the Captains in the UK. I can go mountain biking on standbys, have a easy 20 minute commute to the crew room, have no major ground handling hassles and good roster stability.

It is a different job altogether working in the London area. If my situation was to change, even I might be tempted by BA and going Long Haul.

So, can easy offer you a base where you want too be? That is worth sacrificing any amount of salary increase or further career opportunities to me.

Yes but what is the waiting list like for your base? To anyone contemplating joining, be under no illusion you'll do your time in a base not to your liking while waiting for literally someone to retire so you can get into that base.

And that's assuming the base or other bases haven't been closed in the mean time and all transfer lists bypassed.

Bit like command at BA :ok:

I'm an ex-long serving easy pilot and am much much happier sitting in the RHS of my LH jet enjoying total roster stability and a good level of control. I could never go back to 5 of anything, let alone earlies.

And they may not have Alex Cruz, but they do have their own version. "Costs need to be reduced to remain competitive" being an oft quoted phrase.

Easy question: is it worth investing around 4-5 years to get the base you'are looking for? Would you retire in Easy, do you think is possible to plan a move with such long term plan...?!
Thanks FE

1-No
2-No
3-Depends which base, some have a wait list much longer than 4-5y

Having been EZY at LGW for several years and now LH BA at LHR, there is no doubt in my mind that LH BA is the easier job. More days off and feels like far less work generally.

At EZY, the constant roster changes at LGW were a nightmare. Your 5 days could easily be ripped up on day 1 as crewing had some kind of self induced meltdown and decided to send you off to an airport hotel in TLS for the week. Used your short notice changes? Tough luck pack your bags! I actually once had a crewing officer at easyJet argue with me that the night stop I'd just been changed to wasn't a short notice change because the timings on days 1 & 2 were within 2 hours of my original day trips. Um, thats not exactly the point! How anyone manages childcare is a mystery to me. I simply cannot remember the last time my roster changed after publication at BA (except to have a trip taken off me for training). It may actually never have happened.

That said, I can definitely see the attraction of 75% left seat command at a regional base with easy. Trouble is, as a DEC you're gonna have to put up with quite a lot of the above before you get there. if you do go, for gods sake get away from Gatwick ASAP.

Different kettle of fish entirely. Unless you think it likely that they would have left Concorde and BA to come and fly the minibus out of Gatwick out of choice if the CRA was 65 at the time.

Thanks for the info guys. BA is a great company and I would recommend them for most people, it's not for everyone and not everyone has the same deal and that's what causes my issue. I won't bore with the details but Rex Banner knows the issue and it does not affect anyone who is looking to join as DEP. Rostering is the problem but it sounds like EZY would have different issues. More money etc but Gatwick would be tough long term. If it were a short wait for a regional base I think I would be there in a heart beat if they would have me.

I assume everybody here is interested only in being based in the uk.

Because the good orange contracts are definitely in mainland europe, not on the island.

I for one am only interested in being based "on the island" but I am sure plenty of other people will be interested in discussing details of other bases.

Have they done away with transitions then?

Transitions are when they turn some of your earlies into lates and vv which makes an utter nonsense of the above stable, logical sounding pattern. They are seriously disruptive to one's lifestyle and rest pattterns and when I left not long ago were at some bases more the norm than the exception.
Origin? Over a period of years BALPA had negotiated the roster pattern quoted as random rostering and day by day roster chages were killing us and eventually gained it at considerable cost in concessions elsewhere. * The company found they hated the "loss of flexibility". Soon thereafter "transitions" appeared where lates were found in early week and vv, and were often applied as changes after roster publication too. The excuse given was that the agreement was merely a preferred framework or some such weaselling bullshine and nowhere had the company signed to say they couldn't put earlies into late week etc etc. BALPA were blindsided by this - who would have guessed such trickery would result from the long awaited and agreed stable roster pattern? Not BALPA, that's for sure but they were hardly to balme for not anticipating such a callous deception.

You are dealing with the hardest-nosed bean-counters in the business and they will extract anything they can from you if necessary, always backed up by a surprised and indignant sounding, "But it's perfectly legal" to justify it's safety and thus unquestionable acceptability.

There's lots that's good about Easy but honest adherence to union/company agreements and recognising the need for a sustainable lifestyle has not been a widely recognizable feature. People mean very little, you are easily replaceable. Its much worse for cc.

* At the same agreement they introduced "flexi month". To aid roster stability the requirement for 20% standby cover was built in to the pattern with a month of solid standby, just days off rostered in ones and twos - ie pretty useless for recovery but on a month of SBY with a proportion of not being called was probably acceptable. The SBY month lasted no time at all and almost immediately morphed into a month of nigh-on solid random rostering. ie exactly what the agreement had been set up to avoid. Again, the answer was that nothing in the agreement had said they couldn't break their word and do that!
Flexi rostering is a euphemism for a month of debilitating random rostering with few SBY - and in my experience they always turned into duties. It isn't fun.

I work a 4/3 average alternating between earlies and lates, we always get at least two days between an early and a late, sometimes four, unless we choose to do overtime. Even so, the first early is an absolute killer for most due to the difficulties of getting to sleep when going to bed earlier.

How on earth is combining earlies and lates in the same week with no rest days even remotely safe? ASLEF at my place would never allow it, why do BALPA?

Strangely the old CAP371 UK FTL allowed and forced this by default. BALPA won't like you
for pointing this out Chris....

In which case, I suppose the blame lies largely with the regulator, would be tricky (as far as I'm aware) for BALPA to do much about it since they'd have to be in dispute with all UK-based airlines at the same time it was introduced.

Haven't got the time to read the entire document but I must admit I'm surprised that the regulator allows it. Mind you, they allow loads of other things which I think a lot of pilots would say they shouldn't (P2F etc.).

Generally the rumour for UK bases is that you should get 75% contracts within 12 - 18 months.

You will not find all you like in one company, you need to make compromises of what is most important for your personal lifestyle.

If you like to be home most nights, and you can work 75% or 50%, than it's not a bad job. There are a lot worse jobs out there.

A most interesting discussion. I think there are some wise words here from ex-easyJet guys, although I have to say their experience is not mine. I have flown for easyJet for 13 years (just gone part-time). If you are a young lad/lass, then really BA is the only game in town. It is a great company - despite Alex Cruz. EasyJet have been very good to me overall, but there is a huge amount of roster disruption in the summer (effectively July and August, but occasionally outside those two months as well). That said, we fly lots of new aircraft, have much more fun SOPs (you get to fly your own approaches!), and there is a great atmosphere between the pilots and cabin crew. The big selling point for easyJet is the known days off years in advance, and very few night stops. Despite some of the warnings on here, I have personally never had a single difficult discussion with a crewing officer in 13 years and never once been sent away unexpectedly. Under the new deal just agreed with BALPA today a UK captain's basic will be around £103k plus around £15k in allowances. The BA pension is much better (easyJet put in 7%). I have personally known of two pilots who left BA (not at 55 and retiring) to join easyJet. One was delighted he had done it and the other said that in the end he regretted it. I am accused of being too pro-easyJet, but I think I am just a realist. Next to a national carrier, I think we are about as good as it gets. BA is, however, a great national carrier and you should not underestimate how good a company it is. In the final analysis, I think there are six reasons to come to easyJet from BA but many reasons not to. The reasons to come are:

1. Very few night stops, so you get home most nights.
2. 5/3/5/4 roster pattern that means you can predict your days off.
3. Good basic salary for captains.
4. Quick command relative to the likely wait now at BA.
5. The implementation next year of the 'preferential bidding system' like the one currently in easyJet's Italian bases. This allows you to choose lates or earlier as you wish.
6. Great share schemes that have netted a lot of money for the people who have bought into them.

Offsetting that, the reasons not to come here are:

1. Much more unstable rosters compared to BA.
2. Lack of opportunity to move out of short haul.
3. Long waits for commands at the regional bases due to oversubscribed transfer lists.
4. Cumulative fatigue over many years (maybe everyone has that!) for people not going part-time. .
5. Poorer pension than BA.
6. Terrible crew food!
7. No seniority list which means you never really escape the terrible duties - they just keep coming round!

Others may disagree, but that is how I see it. It would be a huge decision to leave BA and not one to take likely. That said, if you really want to do it, then we are about as good as it gets in the low cost business.

Nice post.

I'm in the BA hold pool but not sure any of us will ever get a call. I'd come to Easy as a DEC if I didn't have to pay for the type rating?! How is it Easy charge for this still yet Ryanair don't. Granted in Ryanair you're bonded for 5 years and have £5k less salary per year for those 5 years to pay for it, but at least you don't have to shell out the money yourself upfront.

Wish Easy would consider something similar.

Great balanced view from The Count. I joined easy as DEC not that long ago, having worked for a few other airlines. Yes it's not perfect (but no airline is!) and can honestly say that it's a lot better than quite a lot of whats on offer out there these days. For me it has turned out to be a really good decision and I am enjoying my time here. Whilst there is a fair bit of roster instability at the moment, especially being at the biggest base, I knew what I was getting myself into. Operationally it's a really nice working environment, I'm allowed to be a Captain again and everything isn't micro-managed in the same way as some other places. On top of that being directly employed, with a pension, LOL & share scheme is way better than being forced to be self-employed or work through an agency.

From the TR point of view, whilst not ideal, it does seem to be the way of the world and it comes down to a personal decision. However as a DEC you can claim it against tax in the UK and therefore ends up costing a lot less that the RYR option quoted above even if you do have to pay up front. Also I believe that some people may not have had to pay the TR in the past if they agreed to go to some of the less popular bases.

There seems to be some good balanced advice on this thread which is refreshing for this forum!

Can someone shed some light on the terms of self funding the TR for a UK DEC?

Very little information seems to be out there on the internet.

How much do easy Charge?
Are you paid a salary during the TR?
How much uk tax relief do you get on the TR cost?
Where do you do the TR? I guess you have to stump up the cost for the accommodation as well.

FlyingTinCans feel free to DM me

I wouldn't mind the answers to those 4 questions too - although I think the answer to the 4th is CAE Stockholm?! :)

Guy and girls, just keep in mind the contract terms and conditions were just being discussed for the UK AOC.
Similar good contracts are been given in Italy and France.
On the other hand, read carefully your contract for PMI, BCN, AMS, LIS and OPO. Some people had been quite disappointing, especially when it comes to transferring out.

Type rating is done at CAE, but is arranged through a norwegian outfit called Luftfarhtskolen. The cost is charged in Euros costing 25,200.


Yes, from the first day of the TR. According to the contract you get 90% pay for the first 6 months.


None.


Stockholm is generally used for DEC and DEP. The UK sims are pretty much maxed out just doing renewals. Accommodation and flights are provided by Easyjet.

A couple of corrections. The contract now says you will be paid 100% salary from day 1 rather than 90% for 6 months.

Some have successfully claimed the type rating as an employment expense (rightly so I would say!)

Great post Count. I am also in the BA pool but have decided to stay at easy. To me the seniority list wait for a shot at command is the killer.

Please could someone fill me in with the approx monthly pay for LTN/LGW FO.

And, if I make the move it's based on attaining a shot at cmd at about the 2 year mark. Is this realistic?

Any other info on the package is much appreciated. PPJN is pretty vague. Many thanks.