BA CITYFLYER and CTC
 

Advertising for DEC and FOs.
Small note at the bottom of the page;
Thieving :mad:

It shows just how low this industry has sunk, when you have to pay for interviews.:mad:

Agreed its less than ideal however there are many much worse companies out there. Do not understimate the value of this company's pedigree if you are looking for a long and progressive career.

I assume that non type rated will be bonded and not asked to front up cash?

This company is happy to recruit bizjet guys unlike many. So if you are stuck with a dodgy company sustained by piles of dubious foreign cash then now might be the time to jump ship if you are looking for a secure future.

Or not, if you like piles of foreign cash.:ok:

Any idea why it says "Valid B737NG rating and must have flown in the last three months" within the Entry Criteria?

Have CTC cut n paste from another job posting? In which case, well done chaps, really out earning your 245 per CV there.

If your charged 245 pounds for the initial assessment and you pass. Do CTC / BA Cityflyer charge for the simulator assessment?

Unless things have changed in the last few weeks the £245 charge does not apply for DEC.

:D

I suspect someone ****** up

The recent advert for DEC's at LCY does not make for easy decision making due to lack of clear information. I would much appreciate a more open idea of the real monthly salary after tax than a broad spectrum 'your annual salary will average between £70000-80000/annum. If anybody is able to provide a realistic figure I would much appreciate it so that I am able to crunch the numbers and decide if this is in any way viable. Equally what exactly is a 'touring roster'. Does it mean five night stops a week and then two days off or some other variation on the theme?
I note in Wiki that mention is made of night flights starting this year. Is this correct and will this be for the STN rotation only as I imagine it would not be possible at LCY due to noise considerations. This would not be an appealing aspect!!
Like many of my colleagues I am looking for improvement in quality of life. Knowing that the remuneration appears to be well below par for a command position and that aside, I am keen to find out what the day to day job is like and whether it will offer the improvements in quality of life that I am seeking.
I would much appreciate any input from any current pilot. Thanks in advance.

Frankie,
Starting salary for a year 1 Capt £68,190. Duty pay £1.9/hr 45p of which is tax free. An additional £1893 London weighting.
You can add approx £500-600 a month of duty pay.
Night stops vary between each month max is usually about 10. I'm max touring and in Feb I've 2 night stops March 3! Because of the EASA rules we are now doing more 4 sector days up to the max FTL. You might do 5 on 1 off followed by 4 on then 2 off or as a Capt maybe 6 on 3 off. It all varies from month to month with at present NO roster stability! Crewing do not respect our scheduling agreement and always try to blur the lines. It's a constant battle to ensure your not being messed with! You'll get the minimum time required for days off eg 56 hours etc and you'll get 12:15 off between days. Ie finish at 20:00 start next day at 08:15. Same down route. There are few trips that give slight longer breaks but crewing now make 12:15 the target (check out 30 mins after chocks on to report next day). The STN flight are over a Sat and into Sun only! The last flight gets back to STN about lunch time Sun where it will then position somewhere on the network. One airframe back to back flights.
If you're looking for an improvement in quality of life..... This is the same reason people are leaving as quickly as they can get jobs. There is no quality of life at Cityflyer, especially as a Capt!!
Hope that helps.

1. Year 1 Capt - £4k net/month. Do a search on Purchasing Power Parity and London living (or commuting) expenses.

2. Rosters - couldn't give you the split (day trips/tours) but most definitely not a total touring roster making commuting challenging (expensive). A little, but not great, control through requesting days off.

3. Night flights - one finish of around 3 local this year so not most people's idea of a night flight. However widely assumed to be a precursor of subsequent years.

Current requirement partly due to a little expansion but primarily because of crew of all experience levels leaving. Dis proportinate number of low/mid experience Capts in that group. Draw your own conclusions.

I've no idea of your QOL. If your username offers a clue I'd say it would have to be truly dire for this position to offer an improvement.

In summary consider this - operators offering T's and C's like this often benefit from experienced Pilots looking to 'downsize' (financially secure/better lifestyle/returning home). BACF have had a few of these guys in the past. They didn't stay long.

Good luck in your choice.

So £3900 net/month plus £500-600 duty for a Captain? wow.... Aircraft might look like BA, but BA it certainly isn't. Don't BA day 1 FO's make this?

Thank you so much Baffled and RJ100 for your very in depth replies to my post. You have helped me answer a lot of questions for which I am very grateful. I am certainly not desperate for this position being in a well paid long term command position. I have felt for some time that the salary that BA Cityflyer are offering for a DEC position is inadequate, however I had at least hoped that in exchange for a considerable drop in pay that it would offer me a somewhat better quality of life than I presently have. It seems however that this is not the case and I certainly do not want to join a company with another vindictive rostering department. As you note there are Captain's who yearn to get back to the UK for family and other reasons. However this is not at any price, and there needs to be a good reason to accept considerably lower pay and that is a significant improvement in quality of life. If this is not provided then the job is a non starter. Your comments have given me good ground and facts to reassess my current position and look at other better options.
Once again thank you so much for your very helpful input.

VJW they do but that's only until Mr Cruz gets his feet under the table..

frankie777 I'd take a look at Korean with a London basing, 12/13 days off in a row with around 75 hours flying. Sounds far better now than BACF doesn't it :ok:

RJ100

If you keep scaring them away it'll never get better! :ugh:

justanotherstat is that logic correct? If no one applies and the need for pilots remains, the T&C's would need to improve surely?!

I don't think RJ100 is scaring anyone away. The contract offering a Captain salary of £4500 a month does that by itself.

Indeed it does Nightstop!

Just wondering. How would income tax work if you're living outside the UK?

VJW

I speak in jest and fatigue, I'm sure RJ100 understands. As for your common sense approach, I'm afraid logic doesn't come into the equation. Instead they will pay an agency a fortune for contractors to survive the summer.

Well to show you how appealing the T&C's are at BACF, even for the contract pilots.... This weeks course of Capts failed to show up! They all found better jobs or contracts elsewhere. This is the start of the spiral we have been warning about for the past few years. As an idea of the severity other than those EDI based crews who want to live in EDI, I can honestly say that I don't know a single Capt or FO who isn't applying elsewhere!! Even recent upgrades within the past year are handing in notice and leaving. The first comment out of anyone's mouth on seeing colleagues is "what's your escape plan, where are applying?" Rats abandoning a sinking ship comes to mind.
It's a shame as the people we work with on a day to day basis are fabulous...... It's just the people who they still allow to run this sinking ship that are ruining a once good company.

Sorry guys, I do not mean to start a discussion here but it is more out of curiosity.

- Some (insider, I guess) mention crap pay and bad rosters(and yes, 5 or 6 and then 1 or 2 is bad) - why then not going for RYR? I mean it seems the pay is better, good TR and getting hours on that frame, then, let's see....
Rosters over there are much better, especially for me I like the idea of NO nightstop at all at daily ops(except AOG of course).

So better pay, more off, holidays on top, most likely the same bad(in terms of pilot hater) management. Why would you go for Cityflier?

And last comment - suggesting Korean - that is not a nice thing to do. If I believe this forum and some comments from some friends flying(or not flying over there and deciding instead to stay with their current chinese company(!!)) over there - not a nice place to be. You think Turkish does not really like foreign pilots, have a go at Korean and enjoy.

Just to put you right RJ, galley FM has gone mental. It was actually the assessment days where 7 didn't show up. 9 have signed binding contracts to start in the next few weeks. I had heard this myself about the vanishing 7, but have been corrected by a very reliable source!!!

Dear All,

I recently applied for the DEC at BACF, application has been accepted. I booked for the first assessment day but did have a lot of questions before undertaking a quite long trip (Europe Mainland) to Southampton for 1/2 day or a Full day, TBC.
As for now, I haven't seen any extra costs yet....anyone who can tell me if the Interview is charged? The Sim session cost??.
As for the roster..... doesn't look promising as my intention was to eventually do this commuting....

Thanks for the info

According to CTC

"Apart from any costs you may incur, there are no costs to attend any part of the selection process."

JetsetWilly,
I don't have to be set straight by anyone, least of all a newbie to BACF!!
If what you say is true why did the company initially delay April roster publication?
Because people didn't turn up for an assessment day? Even our Company isn't silly enough to roster people before assessing them!
If you choose to believe the company spin then feel free. I have spoken to at least two very reliable sources who confirm that people didn't show for the course be it contract pilots or new hires, that is the part that's open for debate.

If BACF need good pilot retention and want to attract quality applicants they need to up the anti, the pay and conditions are simply way below expectations.

Simples really

Could anyone give me any details on what happens at CTC? Lots of talk about people not showing up to class dates and also heard people are canceling their assessment days also. Does this mean BACF is in dire need of pilots to the point that there will be flight cancelations?

I applied DEC and got invited but when I discovered the:

1) pay below industry standard
2) have to pay for assessment
3) pay for flight to get to at least london
4) accomodation with no word for discounts
and it is a BA Logo company

perhaps I should hold on to my current job.

No charge for the assessment for DECs...or that was the case when I applied.

How is it that some agencies say BACF will accept an ICAO licence, not that I mind but I know in EU you can not go anywhere on an ICAO licence. ...any ideas?

Just a thought. Why would CTC put any outside person through to BACF if they are in the business of promising their students job placements? Seems like a conflict of interest to me. Just seems like BACF could have used a more neutral recruiter!!

Kgn6 - That would appear to be an active policy! BACF must know this so there must be a compelling reason why they continue to use CTC.

Agreed... huge conflict of interest

CTC isn't just a pilot training organisation... it looks like it's become a pilot recruitment and pilot placement organisation.

I think they do recruitment/assessment/selection for a number of airline Direct Entries now.

If the grapevine is anything to go by, it sounds like there are more opportunities than there are pilots finishing their training at CTC anyway.

Anybody know what is up with CTC never having any spaces available for the selection days? I have been asked to part take more than a month and a half ago, check frequently, but I always get the message that there are no spaces available. Emailed to two different email addresses but no response.
This is for an F/O position, I know that captains could still pick dates up to a few weeks ago...

... strange indeed - there is usually no delay in relieving you of £250... got to keep those old boys golf club fees paid up haven't we! :yuk::yuk::yuk:

Charges have gone. Nobody daft enough to pay it!!!!!

Hi all and thanks for all the info. I'm a bizjet pilot and since the airplane is being sold I'm considering all options. I'm not desperate because I'd rather stay a few months without pay rather than accepting very bad T&Cs. I'd like to try the airlines althought most of the people I know complain about the same stuff. !!!! pay, roster, quality of life. I applied in BACF and they invited me for the assessment. No fee to pay but air fare and hotel are on me. The first available date for the assessment was the 23rd of Oct, so it looks like they are busy at CTC. Any feedback from whoever went there would be much appreciated. Just a couple of questions for the insiders. How much does this company have to do with BA? Same seniority or different? Any chance to move to BA in the futures? What about staff travel? Cheers

To answer your qs
Subsidiary of BA, prob looks similar to pax but pay is a lot less. Different seniority. Good chance to move to BA, interview for BA after at least 2 years service. Staff travel exactly the same as BA including your rank (which could help on a stby ticket I guess). Hope that helps!
Btw may I ask when you applied please? I applied a few weeks ago DEC and have heard nada from CTC.
Cheers dash