Ryanair SSTR
 

Good day,

I passed the RYR Assessment. In fact this means I passed the assessment for a TR with RYR nothing more. There are a lot of information about pay, rostering etc. but nothing about the percentage actually working for RYR after the TR and LT.

Summed up, the simple question ahead: how many people pass TR and LT?

Before investing this amount of money how do I know they won't dispose me for no reason to get the next paying cadet.
I guess not reading about such cases means good news but maybe people will not talk because feeling embarrassed.
Do they do their selection while being in the TR or do you work for them as long as you pass TR with good grades?

Any information appreciated:ok:

Cheers

Despite what you might read about the Company and the usual bladdy blah yawn stuff etc.

The Training Dept train for success not for failure and will go the extra mile to get you through if you are struggling.

99% of cadets get through everything and are employed as you are needed.

However there is always the tiny percentage where no matter what both sides do they will not get to the end of training. Its a fact of life, not everyone is cut out for a career in aviation.

Lets be clear its the exception rather than the rule.

I talk from experience of having been involved in all aspects described above.

Work hard, study hard, have a good attitude and don't believe because you paid for something you have a God given right to pass and you will have no problems.

Hope that helps.

Say Mach Number is absolutely right. The company will never get rid of you to replace you with another cadet. They need you and want you to pass everything. The training department, from initial type rating right through to line training and beyond is usually very well organised and professional and the quality of training you will receive will be excellent.

You must be prepared to put in a lot of hard work though as it is tough and there is a lot to learn. Occasionally one or two people struggle and some take longer than others to pass but I would guess 99% come through the system with few or no problems.

That is the same question that gives every experienced pilot in this country sleepless nights!

Lots of things can be better in Ryanair. But what you know for sure is that you be in a job when you join Ryanair.

In 1998 I did my first TR on a commercial jet with 2500 of which 1500 as in instructor and the rest in GA business jets.The company, a small charter operator, paid for it while he paid me and my very good quality accommodation in Brussels. I signed an agreement which was worth the paper it was written on. I had a regular contract with full pension. Now you want to spend a substantial amount of money for a career that beside being vastly overrated and underpaid will not grant you any benefit or perk, not even a uniform, if not the extreme pleasure of sitting 100' of hours in a pressurized tube with wings designed in 1954 with no possible development than migrating to the desert since by doing , so you are undermining the future of those European pilot still enjoying that minimum of benefits that should come natural when you are in charge of hundreds of life in the same tube moving fast at the boundary of the troposphere. You are evidently your and our worst enemy and you should shoot yourself instead of falling in the trap. Have you ever asked your self how they would have to source their pilots if no one was paying to become one. Spend the money on something worth more than a type rating. You will not be in business..you are the business.

furbpilot your point is?

Unless I have missed something this is not 1998 and never will be again I'm afraid.

If we are talking time machines I would like it to be 1988 and or 1978 and I had joined BA and flown Concorde but I didn't.

We cant all live in the past. Its 2015 and the world has moved on. Not always for the best but it has moved on.

I suggest you move on as well and live in the 21st century as this person who asks the question is having to and hasn't got a time machine.

As I said at the start your point is?

Garlictastes,

Congrats on passing the assessment, disregard furbpilot's post, just make sure you join the RPG. The reality of your situation is that you will be very well trained and get excellent flying experience fast. Without a doubt it is a nasty company to work for but you will be very employable after a couple of years in Ryanair and you can leave for somewhere better like most people do. Keep that in mind and enjoy the flying.

Very employable by who? By some other scam airline violating basic human and worker rights? Don't do it...if they need pilots they have to pay for it.

Ask the many ex Ryanair pilots in the likes of BA, Aer Lingus, Cargolux etc if they feel like they're working for "scam airlines".

furbpilot,

Seeing as you have all the questions and no answers. You have said ignore Ryanair for the reasons you gave in 1998.

So where are you telling this person to go for a job?

Who is going to give him a job on the conditions you state and is hiring non TR people at this time?

Is the list so long he can pick and choose, hmmm don't fink so.

I am sure he has debts and needs to start earning a crust.

As for other airlines hiring ex FR. Most never did a sim ride in Norwegian - no point- and the success rate at Emirates is 90% for FR and less than 50% for all others.

FR is not perfect but it will give this person the start he needs without the need for a time machine.

Yeah right...replicant pilots flooding the market and again FR screwing the market. In all airlines you mentioned T&C and lifestyles are spiraling down..

furbpilot, hate to state the obvious but you haven't answered the question yet.

Where do you suggest he goes?

Infact don't bother as it was rhetorical question.

Easy and Ryan are his best bet in this world we live in.

I suggest he spend the hundred thousand quids on a real education and stay well clear from aviation, getting into a business that will leave some space for personal life, hobbies and culture .If he likes flying he can still do it as an hobby ..real flying like glider of aerobatics once he will be a successful lawyer why not his private plane. Commercial aviation had three main advantages over an office job. More time off, better salaries and pensions and an opportunity to see the world in a dynamic way. This is not true anymore and we are left with the negatives , stress, repetitiveness, tiredness and family unfriendliness to levels never seen before. Starting an aviation career nowadays is plainly stupid.

Now that I can agree with.

Me too; very much. I got in, and out, just in time. Now the paragliding and aerobatics are even more enjoyable and frequent.

In all airlines you mentioned T&C and lifestyles are spiraling down..

Pax have had it rough as well. We all take it for granted now, but the pay extra for everything situation is only 15years old and has become much worse than when first introduced. The pax haven't voted with their feet. Perhaps that's why pilots haven't either.

Hello all,

I am very happy to see such a diverse discussion.

My situation is as follows, after I finished flight training one year ago (and liking the way as furbpilot said to work up in steps) I made the flight instructor rating and I am instructing since half a year. And liking all kinds of flying I also hop into a glider when I have some time. But I think my chances of flying for an airline will decrease with time following this way.

My plan while not getting a job offer was to study while instructing (as probably most of you agree would be the best choice) but now having passed the assessment and having the option to fly professionally my choice is clear to me as it is my dream to fly a big jet (and this could be the last chance like Say Mach No said)

Good news that training standards are high and there is the job after training!:) thank you very much for clarification because this question was really bugging me the most!

Sad fact I think in general working conditions are getting worse in many professions.

Again, thanks for all the replies.

EDIT: Somehow my messages must be approved by an admin... That's why my answers are delayed by one day or so and totally out of order!!?

Well, passengers are not paying much for the ticket anymore.
Like MOL said years back: what do you expect for 20 pounds?

I am not a great fan of Ryanair, and in fact I despise them. However, reading Say Mach Number's post, I can only commend the few wise people on here to listen to his advice. He is clearly on the inside at Ryanair, has excellent knowledge and presents the case very well. Ryanair are fascists, lurking these days as nice furry animals waiting to be petted by the gormless public who actually believe their new PR of being kind to everyone they meet. Nonetheless, I have no doubt their training is excellent and they are there to get you through if they possibly can. They are not a charity, and they know one of their key protections against financial catastrophe is not to have a crash. Therefore, if you are a numpty and cannot fly their aircraft in a 3kt headwind without the danger of a 3.4g landing they are likely to bin you, simply on grounds of self preservation - frankly, I cannot blame them. If, however, you work hard, keep your head down and make every reasonable effort to reach the required standard (which is that you are safe, not a pain in the backside, and will turn up to work on time) then you will find they will do everything in their power to get you through. I cannot find fault with that. I do not think it is true that only Ryanair pilots have a 90% pass rate at Emirates and everyone else has a 50% pass rate, but they are not terrible pilots either. There is no doubt that many Ryanair pilots are now at the best airlines around, along with pilots from the other feeder airlines like easyJet, Transavia, Monarch etc. It is not 1998, and there are not hordes of wonderful airlines waiting to give you a fantastic job, but this industry does offer you some great opportunities to advance if you work hard.

If you are one of those people who just loathe the airline industry and see it as a terrible place to work, then that is absolutely fine - but this website if probably not the best place for you to spend your valuable time. I like being a pilot, have my great frustrations with my employer like everyone else, but overall have a good working life. If you do not want to be a pilot, be a postman, engineer, dentist or financial adviser. If you like flying, then for all its awfulness, Ryanair is a great place to start your career.

Right up to the time when they don't need you then you'll be gone. When they need more there'll be plenty of idiots lining up willing to part with their hard earned for the opportunity to be treated with contempt and disdain.

Can you tell me the last time Ryanair made a pilot redundant?

I don't think it's happened for a couple of years now. The company has been through a great expansion. Many pilots leave when they've gathered experience. There has been a steady need for new pilots. But there is one particular paragraph in the employment contract every FO knows about (or should know of), their is no obligation upon the contractor to locate or offer work. I.e. the winter months may offer lots of unpaid standby duties. The actual hours depend on demand.

No, although that doesn't mean they haven't just that I don't know if they have or not, so far.

Can you tell me they never will?

How much did you net as a contractor if i may ask please?

Lazydogg, Can I ask you out of interest what the details are for a Ryan perm contract? I have never known anyone to have one and PPJN has no real details on it. I was wondering what the basic salary is and how much extra you make in flight/Duty pay. A take home of over 4k a month is well over 70k a year, which makes it one of the best paying FO jobs in the UK and something that might actually be of interest to me.

Also is this contact ever given to "new Joiners" along with a UK base?

As an ex FR employee, yes employee, I can only commend their training department and the vast majority of trainers that they have (and have lost!) Operationally, they're pretty spot on. They move with the times, their system works.

If you can handle being a small fish in a very big pond, being nothing more than your crewcode and putting up with a lot of unesscessary b.s. Then grab it whilst you can. They may be trying to change things, however their rate of expansion demands it. They simply don't have enough bods at the pointy end so they've had to apply a softer touch to the crew. Pissing people off only had so much longevity and I reckon the attrition levels over the last few years has bit them on the arse. That aside, they do a lot of things right, they have some great people and with the right attitude and commitment you'll learn a hell of a lot. Best of luck with your decision.

£4k net seems a bit on the high side, unless he's not paying into the pension fund?

Just to add some more numbers. 4000 GBP for directly employed FO may be true for Stansted, but those I know in other bases are not averaging much more than 3000 EURO (if they even get there)

Contractors make more money depending on how properly they pay their taxes.

From what I understand employment terms with FR are base dependent and not network-wide.

Now this is SECOND HAND INFO so I can't verify if it's correct, close or way off but I have heard of some of the cont. European FO contracts with a basic of just under €20k pa

Italian bases on local contract, between 3500 and 4000 eur net on average.

Salary agreements or 'Base Agreements' are determined on the basis of locality. Simply put, some paper pusher from an office somewhere will head off on a rekkie, determine the price of a pint of milk and a mars bar and work out your gross pay from that. Regardless of the fact that you chose to live in Tiblisi North or not is all a matter of fact, Ryanair will consider you as a resident at your place of work, however; unofficially, they know that you jumpseat across the network in order to spend a few days at home before 'doing it all again.' Any argument will be met with the age old proverb that 'your contract was negotiated directly between the company and your local base employee representative committee (tm).' You haven't a clue who this person or persons are and have a sneaking suspicion that the word 'negotiation' means something else entirely in Ryanairland.

All matter of opinion and very tongue in cheek. I could be wrong. 😀

I doubt it Kilo. And don't forget, you will most likely be funding 2 residences: your main where you really live and the other where you supposedly work where the salary is low. You will be slumming it in a dump fulfilling a work/sleep/eat regime while herelf will be draining the coffers in a high priced region. All paid for by a small loaf of bread. The RYR model is not for the faint hearted or low funded.

Ryanair SSTR
 

Cadet to Command in 5 years. I guess also that's 2015 rather than 1998.

Cadet to Command in 5 years. I guess also that's 2015 rather than 1998.

Scary, and it doesn't matter who the employer is. Is there too much reliance on outside factors e.g technology, back up systems, SOP's, ATC +radar, more ILS's?Have these been allowed to substitute for real experience? I don't want to re-open a long debate about command upgrade experience, but one wonders how low it can go. If you can have a command on a turbo prop at 25 years old and 1500hrs, with all the quirks that type of operation involves, one wonders about the command requirements of jets in 20 years time. As the basic training is diluted and targeted towards MPL and simulator training and 'hoop jumping' it would not be a surprise to find that pilots can go from zero to airline hero via ZFT simulators and be base training with nothing more than 10hours Cessna and a few circuits. 1st solo and then the sim. You could take an F/O at 1500hrs (2 years line flying), put them on a 3 month intensive command ZFT sim course and churn out a 'captain'. Ouch! Beware of the future.

5 years? If you haven't had a shot at a command course within 4 years in fr people start asking questions.

Like I said: scary!

Aviation Finishing School to the World
 

If/when EASA ever adopts the FAA's rule that you must have at least 1,500 hours before you can sit in the F/O seat of a medium/large aircraft on scheduled air carrier duty: Ryanair's game is over.

In the meantime, get all you can, kids! It's jet time.

And a word to experienced chap(s) who think that the responsibility for protecting the quality of our profession falls on the shoulders of the newest ones struggling to get in:

Get you head examined.

Our profession is going down the tubes because of US, no one else. It isn't the flight schools, it isn't the bean counters or the other managers, it isn't the agencies or the unions, it isn't the oil prices, it isn't Michael O'Leary, it isn't the sandbox or the Ethiopians or the Turks. IT IS US, THE PILOTS. We don't trust each other, we betray each other, we deal directly with the jerks in management, we don't unite and we are a bunch of cowards. It's true, and you know it. If you want to do something constructive, talk to five of your colleagues this week about what we could attain in this profession if we all trusted and respected one another up here in the pointy end. What new standard of living would our LOYALTY to each other buy us?

Try it and find out.

Well said Birdstrike...

No matter how some of us try to raise the bar, there's some spoiled brat out there looking for the instant gratification and sign up for the pay to fly schemes. Just as low as scabs who cross picket lines... why... instant gratification with promise of upgrades.

Very correct BS737, BUT you are talking about the final result because the Irish club stabbed you in the back and the RYA club just stood and watched!

I hope you have learnt how to organise a pilots association (Or even a union in the long term) and will not forget that when you mount a brave attack that fails, Paddy the Irish guru once said, "Go back to the old ways" and try, try again, BUT take a different path towards your destination.

It's the pilots in the CAA and FAA itself that you need support from, cos without their help any new campaign would need serious money to stand any chance of improving flight safety or pilots working conditions.

The oft repeated clarion call for pilots to stand up for their profession; more collective union action. Sounds good. The airline managements of EU have a collective voice. EASA has a collective voice for the rules of operation & FTL's. No doubt, considering some of the changes over the past few years, that collective voice of management had a very strong & effective lobby with EASA. There is no collective pilot body to balance this onslaught. Oh yes there is; it's called ECA. If it does not have enough teeth then it could grow some. If they put out a call I'm confident the troops would respond. It's called leadership. Where is it? It's not just the individual pilots who don't support their colleagues; within the various national unions in EU countries they don't support their neighbours. I thought that was what ECA was all about, an EU wide pilot voice on common interests. Have they been out to lunch for 15 years? It's all now too late. Horse has bolted and is over he horizon. Stable door is swinging on rusty hinges.