I'm trying to resist adding to the fire but wanted to make a point / ask a question...

So, I'm a newly qualified CPL/IR. And like '000s of other CPL/IRs out there looking at what to do next. Now, I'm not stupid, I'd like to think far from it, and I entered into the training in complete knowledge that this stage now would be the hardest, but you're never quite prepared for just how hard it is.

As for pay to fly, I think if I am flying, or co-flying an aircraft, and someone has paid for the load to be carried (ie. fare paying passengers or revenue generating freight is in the back) then the crew should be paid. Otherwise it is purely driving up the profit of the operator and exploiting the pilot. And if an operator can not survive and pay the crew then you should ask if their business is viable - would cabin crew pay to fly and who get;s who out of the schtick when it all goes pear shaped?

if the aircraft is flying for the purposes of training me, or purely for the purpose of furthering my career (and is a pure cost centre with no revenue generated) then I can see an argument for my making a contribution to this cost.

As for type ratings, yes I can see some argument for some derisking of the costs for the operator, after all what if they rate me and then I bugger off, but this can be contracted to be in both parties interest.

John Smith.
Ill have to take your word on 12k in the law profession, I do not have access to people in that particular profession

I can assure you the bulk of nurse/medicine jobs are filled by experienced people. Or it would seem in two separate locations in the UK

The fact that your particular location doesnt have enough experienced people available for vacancies, unless ive missed something doesnt really add any value to an arguement about inexperienced pilots been preferred over experienced pilots. The difference here is there are plenty of experienced pilots from the UK in both airlines and on types.

If thats the situation where you are fine. We can agree to disagree. Prob best we just move on and not allow the focus of the thread to be altered. Which I think for some reason is what you are trying to do.

And therein lies the rub, JS. In aviation, there ARE enough experienced people to fill in the vacancies. But quite a few companies are doing quite the opposite with respect to their hiring practices.

The answer is simple. "Come back when you have at least couple of thousand hours and significant jet or heavy turbo-prop experience." That is the answer you are likely to get from a lot of airlines. It has been the same answer for decades!

At the ab-initio level, some of these companies will offer apprenticeship "cadet" programmes, but they are very specific.

How much were you thinking of? How much do you consider you are worth in relation to an experienced pilot with many thousands of hours? How much was your "paid for" type rating worth? Do you consider the probationary 6-8 month period worth the prospect of a contract at conclusion? Take a look at those other "professions" that are promoted by way of example. Take a look at internships, apprenticeships, placements, etc. They are all a part of the training regime leading to the more rewarding parts of those respective "professions."

Far too many people have deluded themselves that a CPL and 250 hours is the natural passport to the right seat of an airliner. It isn't and it never was.

I thought that was the whole point of this thread? that it is becoming the natural passport?

It will be. :p


Edit...as long as you've given your money to the right training providers that is.

I'm a product of the low hours industry, but i never paid anything for a rating,whatsoever… i just think that that's what brought the industry down (for us pilots)throughout the years, big companies in the ME and Asia, only asks for TR pilots with hours on type. and wannabe pilots specially in europe are going for this kind of thing for many many years..They start entering some airline in Europe like Easy or Ryanair(paying for the TR) get some hours and then they go straight to a wide body somewhere else...That's why companies wants only TR pilots with hours on type, because there's a whole bunch of pilots to supply them with this kind of scheme… Pilots like me are having a hard time trying to fly abroad because of this… If you don't have an Airbus or Boeing rating you're basically out of the market for the big companies in the ME and Asia..even if you fly an embraer,CRJ or other jet.. Companies completely lost interest on this kind of pilots because they gonna need a full type rating on the Boeing or Airbus wide body istead of a short course… :ugh: Here's just my 2 cents..