BA pilots may not have to move to the ME after all. EK could be coming to LHR.

EK make no secret that their future plans are to stop over and continue routings, linking the globe (DXB-MXP-JFK-MXP-DXB as a teaser.) One transport search on Sir Tim Clarke reveals this.

Considering EK put 10 380's in and out of LHR each day without a spare seat in the house for months now, (plus the tie up with a weak (take-over soon) QF) how long before new basings are needed to continue onto the US, (EK's declared next massive expansion area.) LUFTY and Air Canada are doing their brown-trousered best to stop EK coming in and moving on.

With £230 extra per seat for business APD.............its money for nothing that the UK government love.

With another 200 777's and another 100 A380's coming...............

I am incredulous. Do pilots really sit in the right seat with BA for 20 years before getting a command. I simply cannot believe that anyone would do this.

I never ever spent more than three years in the right seat during my 47 years of serious aviation.

I might well have a wardrobe full of different uniforms from failed airlines but I reckon that I probably made more money and I certainly had a lot more fun.

So 15-20 years to short haul command.
25 years+ on long haul for new joiners?

What makes people think the take home pay at BA is worse than Emirates? That would all depend in which tax jurisdiction you choose to live. A significant number of BA pilots are non-resident anywhere for tax purposes. That's comfortably workable on any fleet! Their take home pay is very impressive!

Looked at in that way, other than an ego-command, BA wins hands down doesn't it?

Really? And your wife and children are non-resident anywhere too. Not in UK more than 90 days a year for last 5 years? No property owned anywhere in Europe? Where do you live - the M4 ibis?! Where is your pension (obviously no state pension or NI). Employed in UK, based in UK... I know its been done in the past, but can you really plan your next 30 years like this?

Tax evasion is nothing to boast about.

Incredulous? Really?

It's not rocket science. Roughly half the pilots are FO's and roughly half are Captains. Not much comings and goings at BA so you spend half your career in the right hand seat (20 years) and half in the left hand seat (20 years). For that to change by much, you'd need to have either serious expansion (which BA has not had) or a high turnover of pilots (which BA has not had).

Simples!

Yorkshire_pud
Personally I choose to live in the UK. What about you? My point being that you don't have to work for arabs or live in a VERY different (oppressive?) culture to avoid paying tax!

Incidentally there is a difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. One is illegal, one is not! Ask any politician (of any party!)

Do you even know the rules? Or how it's easy to comply with them?

I don't see why a time to command at BA of appr 15-20yrs (SH, maybe more for LH) is so surprising. At most US legacy carriers, the times seem just as long, if not longer...

But that guy in the TV Drama Pan Am was a 707 skipper at the age of 25! ;-)

You're forgetting that there are a significant number of BA pilots who will have joined in their early twenties which means that they will achieve their first long haul command in their late thirties or early forties. I chose to leave a regional operator where I could have had a command for BA where I may never achieve a long haul LHS. I can honestly say, hand in heart, it was the best move I've ever made.

If you want to hear something really insane how about when Qantas and Air
New Zealand had guys on the jumpseat (SO's) for longer than 10 years in the late 70's and 80's? The longest I heard of was 14 years.

It then went even crazier when 10-14 year SO's were doing 2 years as FO's and then finding themselves on command courses!

If you want to live in the desert, join EK etc. You can count your DHs till the cows come home.

The problem is that many don't and BA is still the best place to be in the UK, if you're patient with LHS.

The other problem is DEP is finished for the foreseeable future. Only those with a trial lesson logged in a cessna or the flight sim pro pilots can apply right now.

Many looking to make their long term career move can't wait possibly another 5+ years for DEP. And if/when it does open again, it may only be for A320 type rated guys now that the 737/74/76 fleets are largely contracting and 757s are gone. Many of today's cadets will be bidding for LH 5 years from now I suspect.

DEP is always oversubscribed, which leads the debate over BA to be a moot point.

I wouldn't rule out DEP for 5 years, and a least FPP is a scheme not decided by parents funding.

Yorkshire_Pud
I think to an extent that may be close to the truth. However we are just taking on some A320 pilots, and I'd be pretty confident in future we'll be taking more. Plus very likely B777 rated guys at some point.

Those types may not suit many, but it is DEP recruitment, and the employer will decide who brings most bang for their buck.
True, but that doesn't mean they will achieve a LH position. That all depends on vacancies at the time. Many of those vacancies may previously have been filled by DEPs. That happens!

Emma
That's a very fair point, and one which would definitely sway many towards, the sandpit. The two jobs are very different. Hard cash and rapid transition to LHS of heavy metal on the one hand, against 'just culture' and western employment values and principles on the other.

It comes down to individual choice which has to be good. That choice itself will depend on one's own position within the employment 'marketplace'. Also age will be a factor.

It's difficult to argue either is better, as they are simply so different.

Personally I quite like Dubai. I used to love taking a pair of Rolls Royces there for the weekend. Then coming home!:E

Who says it's purely FPP from now on?

There was to be quite significant ongoing DEP recruitment but then BA bought bmi and put a temporary end to that. Meanwhile - FPP cadets were already in the pipeline.

Quite rightly, in my opinion, BA have honoured their commitments to the cadets that had already started and they've started FPP recruitment again because the lead in time is so long.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see DEP and Managed Path open again over the next year or two. All three routes have their own positives and negatives and management have always said each route has it's place in the overall recruitment plan.

I'll believe it when I see it. That's not correct, BA have started more FPP courses than they initially pledged. I remember in 2011 when there was much fan fare surrounding the requirement for 800 pilots over a 5 year period, it even made the national press. I'm fairly certain that they are on the way to filling all of these much talked about positions with BMI and FPP cadets exclusively!

British Airways to recruit 800 pilots - Telegraph

I'm not so sure. The FPP have, as someone stated in this thread, a very long lead in time and enter the line with no experience of aircraft operations from previous employment or schooling. This can cause an 'experience' sink on the line which is generally countered by introducing DEP's into the training programme as well.


What this does is 'off load' the skippers at Gatwick by giving a skill variety in the RHS and not foisting keen but inexperienced FO's on every sector.


From what I can gather the business case for a further influx of DEP's is being made at the moment and the advantages of multi age/skill levels are being used as a business plan driver.


The other disadvantage for the FPP programme is future pay/retirement. Employ 800 people on the same contract at the same time will give you a headache if they either all retire at the same time or all remain within the company to PP34!


I expect DEP to be announced sometime this year, only IMHO of course.

I heard the figure of 100 pilots into BA in 2014. 60 or so FPP, and the rest DEPs. I think 20 DEPs have already, or are about to start, and all to be based at LGW on the A320.

No Sponser


The 20 or so DEP's were the type rated pool applicants who were called as there was a slight delay in the FPP. I still expect DEP applications to open up again soon.


Sadly the applicants will still have to wade through the mire which is the HR department!