Hi Woolfgang, the freeze at Pay point 18 is a pay freeze. It applies if you choose to remain in the RHS beyond PP18 rather than move to the LHS - effectively meaning a move to SH in the current climate. BUT you would be a fool to think that if you were to join now the situation that exists now would still be extant in 18 years time.

Out of interest, if someone is blocked at pp18 for say 5 years, but then applies for and gains a command, would he go onto pp19 on the captain scale or pp23/24?

FLR,

He would go over to the Captains roster on his natural seniority, e.g. PP23 after 5 years frozen, NOT at PP18, the seniority moves up regardless it just means that the annual incremental payments would be frozen.

I am not sure what would happen regards to back pay, if he didn't bid thus leading to the freeze then I believe he doesn't receive any potential back pay from missed increments.

If he bid for commands he would not have been frozen but if a mistake had been made and junior pilots had been given commands before him then the difference between when his command was achievable and when he was awarded his command course would be back paid.

....looking forward to another shot at the DEP process come spring maybe? My togs have just dried off. Anyone for another dip? :p

Dya know what?! For the first time ever.... I don't think so! The money seems to be against you and so does promotion. I think I might be better off where I am! Thats quite a big change for me! I was die hard!!!

So.....

Just to clarify. If I joined 2yrs ago instead of drowning in the pool I would have been on 24pp. Joining now 34pp.

Now I'm sure it was worked out ages ago that someone joining in their 30's on 34 pay points would lose out on £200k in comparison to someone else who got in the week before and was on 24 pay points. This all over the length of career.

Now with the new predictions saying 20 years for command, does this mean that if there are no commands to bid for you are frozen on pp18 and thus this difference over the careers of the two similar aged pilots would be greater?

Make sense? Just wondering as I'm now scared of water!

No, all you have to do is bid for the commands, it doesn't matter if there are none available. But it is a little premature to be worrying about this at this stage. No-one knows what BA will look like in 18 years, it may have expanded significantly or it may no longer be with us. The changes that have happened in the last 12 years since 9/11 have been huge, why does everyone expect that nothing will change in the next 18?

I do think things will change in the next 18yrs. However I don't think it will be for the better. Lesser of two evils and all that!
Thanks for the info tho!

Flew over DXB last week thinking nice place to visit, wouldn't want to live there long term.

BA is a very good job in my opinion with growth on the horizon. For those new people looking to join we do have very junior pilots flying the 777/747/787/380.

If you want a quick command try somewhere else. If you want a rewarding career in one of the worlds most iconic airlines then welcome.

:ok:

Really? "Very" junior FOs flying the 787 and A380 at BA? How junior?

We all want a career and to be able to provide for our families. DXB isn't the best but I have a better standard of living than I had in the uk. We don't all live or want to live in London or Dubai for that matter. Ba stopped being iconic in the 80's and from a passenger point of view is a far distance from being the worlds favourite airline.

Career stability, progression and income is all we look for. Sure having 4 stripes isn't everything but neither is sitting in the rhs till I retire.

As for being junior on 380, 787, 777? Friends of mine been there 5 years have just moved to these fleets. Wouldn't call that very junior especially since they decided that you only join to the fleet your rated on!

Lifestyle?

No amount of career stability, progression or income could make up for being forced to leave Blighty. Especially to work 92 hours every month in a dump like Dubai.

There are many abroad who feel that good old Blighty is a bit of a dump, too. it's personal preference.

Lifestyle options at BA could be wonderful if you get what you want and bid for, but not if you like living in the sunshine.

It's all relative. Just saying :rolleyes:

Just for the record some of us weren't forced to leave democratic republic of blighty and 780hrs in last 12 months I'll let you do the math on that give some advice on bidding technique.

I don't think anyone still thinks BA is a utopia, and it's clearly not what it was - but no airline is.

The fact remains that whenever DEP opens, there's always far more applicants than places and if you want to be based in the UK - particularly SE, I'm struggling with anywhere better or likely to be better over the next 20-30 years.

TBH BA could make it PP44 and it'll still be the best offer in the UK IMO. The opportunity to change fleets, massive route network, respect for their staff, roster bidding, reasonable job security, training/management opportunities, good pay and staff travel - these things aren't on offer at many other UK airlines. Sure you can go abroad, but a quick (er) command wouldn't be important enough to make me want to live in the desert.

There's been plenty of doom-laden predictions about LHR command times, but what about LGW. Are they likely to be in a similar 15-20 year timeframe or a bit quicker?

Since I have joined BA we have hired off the street to the 777/747/767. We now have ex midland FOs heading to the 787 and the fleet has gone relatively junior from within. The same can be said for the A380. Given we have only had the 787/380 for a few months not really much more to say.

You don't have to be senior in BA to fly long haul on any fleet. It's that simple.

Still one if the best flying jobs on earth.

That the same Midland FO's who failed BA selection and got in through the back door? :E

Regarding command times at LGW. Given that LGW is going Airbus and there will be no base freeze only a type freeze associated with LGW I expect that it will still be the place to a junior command - but it will not be significantly more junior that LHR. The downside of LGW is an upside if you live locally and like a hassle free airport to operate from. The pay cap at pp16 may move people up the road to LHR but I think the seniority gap between junior commands at the two bases will close as commands dry up and the effects of the Annual allowance on pensions for those still on NAPS starts to bite.. All in all it's a bit like looking in a cracked crystal ball, anyone's guess is good.

Meow.

Maybe BA realised their mistake and purchased his employer in order to get him...

We don't all get a smooth ride in the industry, and I'll be willing to bet there is more than a handful in Midland who failed to be creamed off by BA.