Busy summer and very quiet winter is why we do 500 hours a year.

How many 5 hour sectors can you do in a day?

Its not so much to do with crew availability or rostering, its the fact that Jet2 have not managed to source the required airframes in time for the summer season. Also the ridiculous EU 261 that has caused some 3 or 4 airframes to be on the ground with crews on SBY ready to rescue any tech or airfield delays has not helped. The damp lease aircraft will be replaced by Jet2s own aircraft in time for summer 2014 plus expansion creating more jobs for those that want it.

Jet2 has be inundated with applications to join, many thousands of applicants, plus with the arrival of its own simulator facilities soon will be training non type rated for next season I am sure.

BTW spoke to an F/O, his average take home is about £3300. Also bare in mind the unlike some LCC (Jet2 is now a leisure airline not low cost) all uniforms, car par passes, medicals, licence renewals, simulator accom, passport renewals, airside passes etc are paid for, plus a company pension scheme etc, all adds up.

Blue pilot

That sounds a bit better!! Glad to hear its not as bad as I thought then!

Going by the looks of the number of stages in the new command selection process....I'd guess about 20 years !!

Is the company pension contribution still only 6% for FOs?

Do Jet2 pay sector pay as well as duty pay?

- Yes, they pay both sector and duty pay.

- They do pay for medicals as far as I know (they certainly paid for it a month ago) They have accounts with several AME's so no cheque book even required.

Baron Blue's figures are correct with what to expect re salary in summer / winter.

Time to command is difficult to predict, and is largely based on individual circumstances. There is no seniority in Jet2, so once you tick the required boxes, you can apply for command. Bam Thwok is referring to the recent change to the command selection process, which is now a more defined and involved affair. Nobody knows how long the actual process will take, as no one has yet been through the new system.

PPJN needs updating. Everyone got a 3% uplift on salary + 5% on Sector Pay & FDP as of 01 Apr 2013.

Does anyone on the inside know what the likely non-type min requirements would be?

Something missing from the PPJN info. is the flexibility of contracts once on 100%.

You can reduce to 80% salary & take from 01 Nov - 31 Mar. (7 months on/5months off). Or...

66% salary to operate 6 days on/8 days off for 12 months of the year.

These 2 schemes are very popular with people who have additional incomes.

People harp on about the wages not being very competitive. We've got to face the facts that the golden age of aviation where pilots were paid a ridiculous amount are long past. Even BA is having to change pay scales.
Writing as a pilot who has only been in the aviation game for a few years, taking home £50k before tax as a SFO on 100% works out fine for me. I guess because I'm living within my means and don't know of anything different.
I can understand if you are coming from other airlines or the middle east that it may not be viewed as a very competitive salary, but I'm happy. Combined with my wife's salary we are definitely bringing in more than the average family.

I have to agree that sadly the good old days are indeed long gone! That said it is not the fault of the guys who have been in the industry a long time but more to do with the cancerous spread of people more than willing to prostitute themselves at any cost coming in at the bottom. Show me any other comparative professional who pays 150 k for his own training and then works for less than 50 % of the comparative salary , I don't know of one! BA aren't adjusting their scales because they have to, more because they can do.
When my family fly I want them to be sitting behind the best trained best paid and highly motivated crew possible. The constant dilution of this industries professional status is only leading one way. Perhaps the situation that is happening at Jet2 now is an indication that pilots are maybe not happy to be rolled over and shafted, rather they would pay the sacrifice of UK life and earn a decent living else where.

Unfortunately nitefiter the best paid aren't always the most highly trained or motivated. The best trained aren't always the best paid and the most motivated are probably the ones not being paid at all.

Who you going to fly with now?!

I don't think it's nonsense, there's only so much you can do in situ to stop the kind of recruiting practices we've seen. Ultimately the buck has to stop with the very people who accept !!!!ty contracts & T&Cs just to get ahead of the game. If things are that bad in the industry (which they are) then why even do the training? There isn't a job on this planet that's worth spending £120k + for to go onto a 6 month !!!!ty flexi contract. It is quite a simple equation really, if people didn't accept the !!!!ty contracts, they wouldn't exist. Don't blame the airlines, I'd offer the same if I was a CEO etc and then laugh all the way to the bank as I pay in my massive bonus.

BB, there are pilots at Jet2 who'd beg to differ. I don't think your all encompassing statement is wholly accurate.

I certainly don't feel exploited so can you expand on your unethical policies comment?

I have no doubt that many are "happy with their lot" at Jet2, been a pilot is after all in this day and age, a compromise! Lifestyle and home-life at regional bases etc etc. But I agree with BaronBlue, after 27 years in UK airlines, please do not come on here spouting Jet2 is a good flight crew employer, it's far from it!

Short-term exploits - the recruitment arrogance and pathetic process all lead to long term damage. I'm not blaming pilots, but it's what this generation of Senior & Flight Ops management are all about!

Many people are promoted to places where ambition greatly outweighs ability on the simple premise that their face fits in the view of those that bestow such promotion favours. Nothing wrong with ambition, but it often clouds thought that might otherwise attach some credence to such ideas as "those you crap on on the way up, are those you meet again on the way down"! Once you get past the point where you'll never get back down as far as where you started, you start appointing the ambitious/incapable to your own court. It's much easier to surround yourself with muppets to take the heat for you, who are themselves, hoping for the return of advancement...

Examples: Jet2 and DHL Air UK's ex RAF clowns & FlyBe's Directors...

Not a nice place to work.They ask a lot, give little in return, and the arrogance of some, particularly ex service is sickening-there being a clique of thoroughly disreputable characters who believe they are still in the RAF.

Stems from management top downwards,-bit of a laugh they require any sort of assessment as there are more than a few psychopathic personalities in places where they shouldn't be talking down line pilots as if they were trash.

Would not recommend unless as a last resort.

Just to highlight that yours is only your opinion, not fact, and opinions vary I would like to state that:

- It is a nice place to work,
- They have bent over backwards when I needed a bit of help,
- I would recommend it.

Ta.

Ha ha ha!

I assume Jet2 didn't recognise mach79 for the truly awesome pilot he is and he's now sulking that they didn't make him Chief Pilot within days of joining the company?

Always someone else's fault is it?

I'd blame the conspiracy of ex-military pilots - after all we are all taught how to overthrow airlines from within when we're in the military. Plus we're all psychopaths.

Being ex-military I love it in Jet2. We get triple salary, our own solid gold plane to fly and get the non ex-military people to do chores for us. :hmm:

You massive

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8...5t2to1_500.jpg

PS. I enjoy working for Jet2. Being ex-military makes cock all difference.
Everyone is treated on their merits.
Those that have none are treated accordingly.

Jet2 used to be a fairly happy place. As did Easy and I'm guessing many other airlines.

The decline in t's and c's has to be due to lots of young hopefuls prepared to accept anything to fly a jet and I'm sure in some cases just wear a pilot uniform.

Too many pilots not enough jobs= crap contracts or no contracts.

I don't see it changing any time soon.

I agree that fringe benefits could be greatly improved, staff travel being one of them, and that improvements could be made, but perhaps the one point that seems to be missed, is the many who have come from other "major charter firms" and enjoyed far greater remuneration for their work have done so predominantly due to one reason, that being that their previous operator has gone bust......

From what I have read Jet2 T&C's are average, better than some worse than others, the current pilot shortage at jet2 is not a result of poor terms. But rather an own goal in recruitment terms

Jet2 recruitment process set an academic bar that took no account of experience as a result some academically skilled pilots with questionable sim performances got hired, whilst some excellent pilots with 1000's of hours on classic didn't

I doubt they'll repeat the error next year and by then many more home grown F/o's should be ready unless there is a mass exodus, which is unlikely

I think they will have avert profitable year in 2013/14 judging by the loads I have seen.

LNIDA, the shortage this year (which I've heard has now been plugged) is in no way a result of the recruitment process itself. All roles were filled back in the autumn using the silly HR tests.

The miscalculation was that out of work, type rated pilots, with families to feed were not going to take the first solid offer that came along. Baby pilots should have filled all the vacancies, but they got solid offers from FlyDubai, Norwegian, Qatar, Ryanair, Monarch etc with start dates prior to the dates Jet2 "promised". So unsurprisingly they went elsewhere.

Nothing will change next year because we are now fully crewed. "What's the problem??" will be what HR will say. They've even saved the company half a years wages from 70 odd pilots, so will probably get a bonus!

The reason they have joined from "other major charter firms" is because these
"major firms" have ALL gone bust!!! There is a lot of fault with the HR department but none with the general management of the company.

It might be 'lol' but it shouldn't be and it's a serious question that all pilot groups should be asking in negotiations along with the likes of:

Is the next batch of recruits into HR or Commercial going to be employed on reduced salaries and T&Cs than the last batch 6 months ago? Are the directors going to take a 5% pay cut with in line with the flighcrew (for Flybe readers)?
Is the next group of managers going to foot the bill for their training courses?

You know the answer so why have we, 'the pilot body', accepted the treatment doled out to us by bonus driven managment so meekly over the past 10 years?

Three weeks ago the RMT threatened to strike on the Jubilee Line over attempts to reduce T&Cs. 'Management' was back in negotiations before you could say 'Bob Crowe'.

The people on 70% contract when offered 100% contract have the choice of having the winter off and starting their new 100% contract at the start of the new season or starting straight away. There is no back pay if they choice to start 100% contract immediately. There is no pressure either way. I am aware of number of pilots who have taken the option of starting their 100% contract in the new season and having the winter off. Nobody at Jet2 works 100% for 70% pay.

If you take the option to have the winter off, then you continue to be paid a monthly wage which is equal to 70% salary / 12 (which you'd have been receiving over the summer already). You would have been working 100% over the summer, but over the year you'd average 70% working. You are correct that if you start at 100% at the end of the summer then you've not done yourself any favours.

Exactly right. If you take 100% contract at the end of summer that is your choice because I guess it suits.

That is exactly my analysis of the situation Baronblue. Hence the reason that they received a thanks but no thanks from me.

I don't know of anyone who at the end of their first summer on a 70% contract was not either offered 100% straight away or 100% starting the following spring. So I don't think it's a reduction in pay for a few years, that's not accurate at all.

There's no doubt there's a lot of things wrong with jet2, and a solid rostering agreement and significant improvement to terms and conditions would go a long way to making it more of a career airline. However, ultimately it's a business and it would be negligent to its shareholders if it didn't try and minimise its costs in all areas, including pilot recruitment and pay. I don't like it, but I can understand it.

Ultimately, jet2 isn't the best place to work, but it's far from the worst. It's all about what you want. If a UK base is important, it would be foolish to dismiss them just because you might spend a few months on a reduced salary.

Excellent post Pemworth
 

Jet2 business model is seasonal. its a buckets & spades airline with some city & ski breaks thrown in. Pilots in that type of operation are only required seasonally so unless you work for one of the legacy B&S operations such as Monarch, ThomasCook and the like where you'll be paid 100% year round and on far better T&C's then your options are very limited if you want or have to work in the UK.

I think the 50% pay in line training is an insult to any experienced pilot, but for now the owner is in the driving seat and growing an airline.

When will beancounters realise that Pilot pay is NOT something one should skimp on, and when will Pilots realise that unless they grow some balls and stop " understanding" shareholders and their so called managers, their conditions will not get better and their profession is being undervalued?!
The only reason why our pay has gone down the drain is hecause we as a group allow it.

Not everyone got offered 100% previously, maybe this year they did. Minimise costs yes, but to make money off their employees at the start of their tenure is another story. They won't grow as fast as they like if they can't get decent pilots who are willing to join or stay when they do. Long term re- training costs will surely outweigh any short term gains...unless a high turn over of staff is made to be beneficial to the company which I believe it probably is.

Baron Blue

Are you inferring that Jet2.com's current pilots aren't decent?

I need info
 

Hi everyone,

Could I refer people to my thread on Ts&cs and bonds etc.

There seems to be a particularly keen interest on pprune in Jet2.com regarding its ethics etc.
All info/insights are appreciated.

Thanks

Just like any business Jet2 ( or to give them the real company name Channel Express air services ) will try to get the best deal be it for maintenance, fuel, or labour. This should not surprise you and it is how the free market works.

I have difficulty with those who are critical of Jet 2 on the grounds of T&C'S because it is clear from the start what they are offering and no one forces you to take the contract. I worked for them when they were still flying turboprops on night cargo and they treated me very reasonably when it was within their power to do so but were always very careful with money.

I think I might still be with them had it not been for the long night duties followed by much positioning to get back to base, I eventually was in fear of dying on the road ether in the back of a cab or while driving home. These less that ideal duties were the result of pilots leaving to fly jets faster than new pilots could be trained. The market for pilots at the time was such that the company was unable to control the outflow of pilots and so the undesirable duties were as a result of things that they could not control.

It has to be said that the care with money has resulted in the company continuing to trade unlike my next four employers who all went bust !

Barron blue
 

The price put on any training bond must by law reflect the cost of training, the large price tags in the contract were always a part of the Channel Express psychological game plan, those who left when under bond always negotiated the bond repayment down to a reasonable level. The company was always happy to negotiate in private as the last thing they wanted was to have the true costs of the training come out in open court as this would have wrecked the psycological effect the large numbers had on those under bond.

As for the BMI Baby pilots, it was my understanding a lot of them have cast their eyes futher north for employment.

Perhaps you think it's a better idea to pay thirty odd grand up front, oh and two hundred and fifty quid for an interview?

The size of the bond doesn't really matter does it. You don't have to pay any of it back if you stay for three years. Just like any other airline that uses bonds. Maybe you can go and get shouty about them too?

Your little whinge about bonds stop people from leaving is exactly what bonds are for. The airline invests time and money in you and does expect something in return.

And the 757 bond is NOT £30k!