What are the commuting possibilities? My wife is not interested in moving to the UK...
Sigma is claiming that there are opportunities for a permanent contract...any truth in this? And if so, full time or part time?
What can Jet2 offer that Norwegian or FR can not?

Worse pay and old aircraft?

Despegue
 

Where is your home ?

If the forum has an idea of the airports you can commute from then I am sure the advice given will be better.

Surely if you are rated on type and have experience on type then there is no need for all the computer tests and stuff.
I can understand all the testing if pilots are non rated and the airline is going to spend their money on a rating for the pilot. They want to know that the pilot will have the ability to pass and they are not wasting their money. But to have it for rated pilots does not make sense.

That would be making the Fatal Error in assuming that airline management apply any logic into anything they do. I've got 4 commercial types including heavy and one more business jet. I'm buggered if I'm doing all that stuff just for a summer contract!
If there's more on offer then its a different story. I don't see that a compass test proves anything, one way or the other, my daughter would probably be better than me at the computer stuff but she can't land a 737 onto a short cross windy runway at night in LBA. Does anyone know the definite terms?
Which other airlines in the UK fit the bill?I can't think of any???
Not Ryanair surely?

Nitefiter
 

Look in Europe & Scandinavia for a job that lets you commute without too much cost.

Whilst numbers and experience on a CV theoretically make the applicant a "known quantity" the truth can be startling different. I agree that basic aptitude testing for experienced guys (and gals) is a waste of time.......however, put some "experienced" operators in the sim for 15 minutes and a very different picture emerges. Not only can handling issues come to light but overall application (or not) of NOTECH's is highly telling.

Does the Jet2 recruitment process involve a sim check?

A4

I'm assuming that, with the lack of accurate information forthcoming it must be pretty bad?? Anyone??? I tried the on line info at jet 2 but it keeps telling me page not available.

I wonder why Jet2 require all the foreign pilots to convert their JAA/EASA licenses into UK one? It seems to me useless for the summer contract applicants. At the end of the contract I would have to convert it back if I don't intend ( or I am not offered ) to work and live in the UK...

Nitefiter
 

I believe Norwegian are still recruiting DEC for basing throughout Europe excluding "core" (Norway, Sweden & Denmark) so ALC,LPA,AGP,LGW & HEL with two other bases due this year, deal is worth €120k plus food, hotac and free commute, plus ID travel for family & friends on NAS network, no bond, sim assessment required basic PC check, you will need to be 737 rated classic or NG but classic only used in core now.

Or...
they will offer what BaronBlue said, then after you have resigned from your present employer they will change the offer to a fixed term summer only contract through an agency.

And now CTC advertising for 757/737 crews (assuming its Jet2!)...how many more agencies are getting involved in this!?!

I also see they are advertising for Aircrew Manager - anyone know where Captain Brown is going: up/or out?!?

This is a big aircrew employer in the UK, low-cost is accepted these days, it seems secure, I understand it makes money but come on guys, you could be an employer of high quality...Instead of a standing joke!

Honiley

It's a cracking firm to work for. The crews are friendly, the scheduling isn't fatiguing, it's easy work. The company is growing & making shed loads of cash.

It's enough to keep me from going to one of the Gulf carriers anyway.

CTC involvement.
 

Can't understand this under supply of crew for the summer. As far as FO's are concerned, surely they could have foreseen this problem and got some cheap guys/gals from the sausage machine! :}

If they are so desperate for crews does that mean they are under-crewed? I know that sounds like a slightly daft question, but it is my understanding that if a company is under-crewed the CAA flight ops chaps start to take an interest (which they do in situations like this) and that it has implications for the AOC, or withdrawal thereof. So I suppose my question should be: is the AOC under threat?

They are short because they wouldn't offer sufficiently high Ts&Cs to attract the right number of suitable calibre people in an appropriate timeframe. Capitalism 101. Market Forces cut both ways.

Lets hope they recruit some of the rated experienced guys I know of without subjecting them to awful contracts and tests. If not then hopefully a recruitment drive to get in experienced TP pilots into the RHS, thus getting the proverbial food chain moving enabling us 500 hour chaps a shot at their turbo-prop jobs.

Oh wait, that's a pipe dream isn't it?

Firestorm

I very rarely swear on these forums but you're talking crap & on very dodgy ground by implying withdrawal of AOC.

Jet2 has a number of aircraft from outside operating for them this summer because they know they can't crew the duties required as it stands. In order to be able to comply with EU261, Jet2 has a number of crews on Airport Standby throughout the network from 0500z-2000z in addition to units based in mainland Europe that can get pax to/from their destinations with minimal delay. All these extra duties require extra crews as coverage.

Also Jet2 has recruited mainly B737 F/O's to replace FO's that have been promoted to crew the extra aircraft they've bought & some that have left the firm. In addition to those crews, Jet2 will be redeploying the GLA & EMA B757s to NCL, LBA & MAN over the next couple of years, replacing them with B737NG's. The B757 crews based at GLA & EMA were offered either a base transfer or fleet transfer. Most opted to transfer to the B737NG fleet & stay at their home bases. Some opted to stay on the B757. I think Jet2 are getting at least 4 more airframes over the next 12 months.

So lots of recruitment & lots of training to fuel Jet2's steady expansion.

What a shambles.
They deserve to lose a truck if cash through cancelling flights through this shambles.
And still this compass testing bolx goes on, my mate who has 22 years command got turned down on it.

If this is HRs idea, they deserve to be frog marched from the building.

Fade to grey

I agree. Compass is definitely the wrong system.

There's nothing wrong with experience, references, training reports & a good word in the right ear.

Firestorm
 

I have to agree with Daddy-Ho the shortage of pilots that is the result of the HR policy is no reason for withdrawal of the AOC.

The most likely action under these circumstances is that the CAA would put a limit on the number of aircraft the can operate until the situation is resolved ( HR department fired).

Daddy-Ho: I asked a question, and thank you for the answer (which could have been given in a less condescending manner). I understand it is not the operation as a whole, but the rate of expansion that will have to be rethought.

I shall now withdraw from taking any interest in what happens to Jet Two.

Firestorm

It wasn't meant to be condescending but lots of journalists read these pages & if they thought an airline was facing having it's AOC withdrawn or in any other difficulty.

They get a whiff, print their stories, the mass media hype it up, customers cancel bookings, the airline collapses, people lose their jobs. It's that cut throat an industry.

If you think I'm overreacting then go bleat to the friends of mine in Excel Airways, in Zoom, in FlyGlobespan & a whole host of over carriers over the years who've lost their jobs because of a journalist 'getting a whiff'.

Think of the ramifications of what you post on here before you press 'Submit' because like I said earlier, journalists troll these pages & they don't care who loses their jobs, just as long as their first with a story.

If you don't think & are of the 'post & be damned' brigade, then you'll get some old walrus of a veteran like me chewing you arse out in public.

The whole reason Jet2.com is subbing in 3 or 4 extra airframes this summer is because they already have the bookings but they can't get enough aircraft crewed ready for the season.

I think the expansion is being managed well enough. We've seen hugely unexpected growth in some areas of the business & it may have caught us by surprise just how successful some projects have been.

Try wishing the company well. In a time of airlines shrinking or disappearing a la BMI, BMI Baby, TCX, isn't it good to see one carrier steadily expanding? Keeping jobs in the UK? Generating British jobs, contributing to the British coffers instead of holidaymakers taxes & profits going to the German owned behemoths of Thomas Cook & TUI/Thomson?

To question on a public forum, whether an airline may have its AOC pulled in today's stormy waters is irresponsible at best & downright dangerous at its worst.

As a Dash captain with a certain "restructuring" regional airline, I would bite Jet2's arm off for a shot at a bonded TR as FO on the 737 with a decent contract as would many of my colleagues. There is probably over 2m hours experience sat in the left seat of "Europe's Largest Regional Airline" of which I suspect at least 1m is keen to move.

Speedrestriction

I met up with an old mate the other day who works for J2.

When I heard what he takes home my jaw nearly hit the floor.

I don't see the appeal or why there are so many desperates out there to get into the LoCos. Their fares are low because they pay their staff peanuts!

FWIW, the deal at EZY sounds pretty dismal too.

Peanuts
 

Well I'm not complaining at how much I take home.
Is your friend on a 100% contract and what rank.

CMO,

He's a 100% FO. He's been there over a year. Even if you remove his TR training payment (!) it's pretty poor.

If you've got 500 hours, maybe. But for someone with a bit of background behind them it's not much. But in fairness now BA have reduced the package for new-joiners, the rest of the industry will become proportionally less attractive for experienced pilots.

I wouldn't be surprised that in the future, Airline flying will be fed from the bottom solely by CTC joiners etc and those that have deep pockets. The pilots with other backgrounds will fill the GA posts etc.

Or you could look at it as netting about a grand a month more than a Dash skipper at said regional:ok:

LSM,

In that case, you'd get more as a supermarket manager!!

stacee jaxx - all things considered, it's not actually that bad a salary. It's not all about the take home pay after all. Lifestyle is (at least to me) far more important. Care to name any other UK operators where you predominantly work 2 sector days, rarely 6 days on, home every night, and average 500 hrs a year? Sure, if you want to work like a dog, just so you can earn a little more dosh, so be it, but personally, I'd far rather have the time to spend what I earn.

Sure, it's not great for hour building, but as a career airline, it's pretty good, and as secure as can be in this fickle industry. There aren't many airlines expanding in the recession. Like everywhere, it has it's problems, and yes, the 70% rubbish has and will continue to bite them in the ass as they continue to expand, but overall, I'm pretty happy here - and no, I don't have rose tinted spectacles, I've been around.

M-J,

Fair enough although my friend stated he took home <£2500 pm. I don't think that is a good wage for many jobs let alone en experienced pilot!

I guess if you're a twenty five year old with no kids it's okay.

Well, I guess if he was quoting his average over the first 12 months then that is conceivable, taking into the equation the 50% until FLC.

The figures on PPJN are correct, so his next 12 month average should be considerably better.

I don't know what to expect. I was just surprised that a) the pay was so poor and b) people were "desperate" to join. It certainly wouldn't (even if I wanted to shuttle the bucket and spade brigade around) be an option I could or would consider.

I think that kind of desperation mentioned previously means the end of the experienced pilot being able to consider Airline flying as an option. Not that it's the end of the world!

And to add insult to injury, some airlines (EZY?) want you to pay for your TR! A double whammy!!

Edit: missed last post on previous page. Maybe it was an average, but I got the impression it was what he's on now. Mind you, the ppjn figures don't look particularly enticing for an experienced pilot.

WingoWango - yes, I can see them taking non TR and bonding. I think the pool of TR'd guys and gals has all but dried up. They go through phases of the 70%, 100% lark, I was lucky enough to get in during a 100% spell (non typed and bonded).

Hopefully they'll come to understand that 70% isn't attractive to the majority, but until they can find (or create) more winter work, 100% contracts won't look good to the bean counters, so time will tell.

Jet 2 Recruitment!
 

It's pretty clear the past supply of experienced, type rated and current but unemployed pilots of any significant number has dried up for 737/757 folk. Hopefully this could mean the end of seasonal employment and 50% of 70%?

WW - Jet2 will continue to do 70% for as long as they can get away with it, make your own mind up on how this year's recruitment went! As has been said many times, everyone who joins on 70% find themselves upgraded to 100% within months. This looks set to continue for as long as the airline expands (a good while yet).

I heard a few months back (even before the crisis) that next year's intake is likely to be mostly non type rated due to the pool of rated pilots drying up.

Jet2 are in the process of setting up an in-house TRTO. Sims are being purchased and installed at Multiflight LBA. Once it's up and running, I presume bonded ratings might follow.

Well, you wouldn't. My brother in law is one and he works more than 350 hours a year:ok:

stacee jaxx
 

The starting salary at J2 as an FO is around £44k and SFO £48k which you can achieve within about 18 months, add to this a bit of sector pay and its not bad compared the national average wage of £26k and not hugely different to BA's starting wage of £51k.

As J2 are based in the regions with its lower costs of living the salary will go much further particularly with respect to housing costs. Compare a 2 bed terrace in London with the cost of a 4 bed detached in E.Mids or Newcastle - similar.

The company are expanding and plan to continue to do so for the mid term which means a relatively quick time to command, good job security and much greater pay, compared to other operators. Its a very friendly place to be and going to work is a pleasure not a chore. As others have said you are home virtually every night and no unpleasant night flying unless you do the mail run.

To expect to start on a salary equivalent to what you maybe earning as a more senior pilot at an equivalent sized operator is unrealistic. You need to weigh up whether taking a pay cut in the short term is in your interests for your long term prospects and career oportunities or quality of life. The answer to this equation will be different for each person.

If you work for a TP operator, or overseas and want to return to the UK or want to have a better work life balance compared to some hard working Loco operators J2 is a definite option. It may/will not suit all but its worth a look.

If you don't apply and get a job offer from them, you don't have a decision to make anyway!

Quote:

Fair enough although my friend stated he took home <£2500 pm. I don't think that is a good wage for many jobs let alone en experienced pilot!


To be honest, I don't think £2500pm after tax is too bad for a couple of years, if you are living at home. Yes you can earn a lot more with other airlines, but it would be hard to beat a 30min drive to work, and back home to your own bed each night. I have spent the last five years away from home, yes I earn more, but I spend the extra for rent and living expenses abroad. Every other night is spent in a different hotel, for a short nightstop ( usually about five hours), with calls from 90% of standby duties. Maybe I am getting old or just homesick, but if I got offered £2500 pm to work from home, you know what my answer would be:)

So from what I read here Jet2 are subbing in several aircraft because they are not able to crew their operation, yet many crew seem to enjoy 2 sector days and 500hrs a year? That's either inefficient rostering or things are about to change!