The original poster is crying for help!
He is not the only one, in my base about 15% of the skippers, mostly guys in their late forties with 20+ years in aviation, are desperate for a part time as they can't handle a full time anymore.
A couple of them are close to a nervous breakdown, the company knows this but refuses the part time contracts. They are even told by the base captain that if they can't handle a fulltime they should be looking for another job!

My advice: as good as it gets, go and see a doctor, I think you need some time off.

Remember guys, if you have dependants such as children or elderly parents that you care for, the company cannot deny you flexible working. It is enshrined in UK employment law. All you need to do is to apply for "flexible working" iaw with UK employment law, and after a chat with your base captain you will be offered your choice of part time contract.

It worked for me, and it can for you, just go for it and threaten a grievance if they try and fob you off.

Enjoy the part time, its great.

Bit dramatic that root. Nice try! :D

Get a job stacking shelves at your local supermarket. Regular hours, good pay, easy bus ride to work, no more stressful travel, and, above all, plenty of free time to relax and enjoy yourself.

My goodness gracious me, don't know what you youngsters do for stamina these days. So far all the complaints make the job seem like easy paradise. You even get crew meals and coffee provided. Six weeks of winter earlies at Sweet Little Piglet Airways made a true pilot zombie out of you.
Hope that vision of the dark side cheers everyone up!

Edited: Substituted SWLPA for name of airline. Wouldn't want a roasting from a Merlin (sic).

Maybe, I don't know. Fly safe :)

You are kidding me right?
Next week I start a support rota at work, I'll be working 12 hours a night from 7pm to 7am for 7 nights straight (Monday to Sunday), then I get one day off, then I have to work 8-5 Tuesday through Friday. Two days off (Saturday and Sunday), then back to 7 more nights. I get to do this for the next 10 months.
And I have to deal with inexperienced people, and, and, and, and I get paid half what you get, and I don't get to fly during that time (who could have the energy to fly with those hours?)

So cry me a river. Welcome to the real world.

DarkRoomSource
 

Sorry, this is supposed to be a Professional Pilots Rumour Network.

Part of being a professional pilot has always been the innate ability to p1ss and moan about anything, at great length and with total authority.

I'm sorry that you've signed up to a life of what appears to be, at first viewing, one of indentured slavery. For little money it would appear.

Have you considered the advice given earlier in this thread, namely move to France? No chance you could work your shift pattern there.

Bon chance.

With the rise of LCC's into serious and hard-working multi base outfits, you could argue that EasyJet and Ryanair have only been around for about 10 years.

Therefore no long-term study exists for this type of aviation work whereas longhaul and legacy carriers are a very well know quantity from the 50's onwards.

Perhaps we are now starting to see the results and effects of this type of fast paced, multi-sector quality of life?

How many EasyJet posters on this thread have actually done 6-10 sector months with 4-6 days off between each trip? It's a huge difference in quality of life and wholly sustainable.

Good luck to the OP.

4000 hours flying long-haul prior to joining easyJet, never acclimatised to the constant fatigue and jet-lag, hated the 13+ hour overnighters to somewhere I didn't particularly want to go to. Didn't like trying to sleep in the bunk, or in another hotel room in the wrong time zone, trying to be suitably 'rested' prior to the next trip.....Horse for courses but at least I get back to my own bed most nights with easy, don't get jet-lag, and when I'm knackered after my five four sector lates, I get a solid four days rest prior to the next mixed batch of interesting flying :O
And when I OETD/OETA it's to save fuel that I might need, it's f§@k all to do with airline management muppets :\

It would seem to me that those bemoaning the OP's suffering are going about this the wrong way.

The fact is the the T&Cs that FR & EZY are now offering are dragging us all down.

If those 2 companies start losing experienced pilots then the competition amongst the airlines for T&Cs begins and so we will improve our lot.

The one who moaned about being at FlyBe, well if you want to move on, wouldn't you like to have a better airline to move onto or would you rather that we all threw in the towel so your future doesn't look as enthralling as it might otherwise be.

Let us not discourage a colleague from trying to improve his/her lot, because if we offer support then our lot will get better.

Like he said, the further down you go, the further we are expected to follow.

With the greatest of respect to darkroomsource & a few others who have come on this thread sounding like a headline from "The Sun" ( 100k earner Capt Ben Dover, aged 42, speaking with his partner, Anna Daptor 26 complains ! ! )

I think , whilst we all accept a bit of levity is good in balancing ones very subjective view, of ones personal situation vs the world situation, this website, being a "professional pilots rumour network", is perhaps intended for US , to discuss how we feel OUR job is progressing/regressing in comparison to our reasonable expectations, rather than being a platform for you to come on here & tell us how lucky we are , NOT to be employed in your "sweat shop".

Is that not in fact the case ?. . . . finally WTF are you doing on a "professional pilots forum" anyway ,particularly if your sole interest is to cheer on those who would deride further our T's & C's (is Troll the word I am looking for :rolleyes: )

darkroomsource

Do you have the lives of 200ish people in your hands?

Do you have a licence to do what you do?

Do you have to go through twice yearly checks to keep your job?

Do you work in such a hostile environment that your liver dries up whilst you are working?

Do you have to deal with noise induced stress?

Without telling us what you do your comparison is completely irrelevant.

No. The fact is that the terms and conditions have steadily improved over the last six years for the topic starter. Maybe he should come over to our private forum, there is always a place there for a good moan, to vent the system.

Look, there is moaning and there is moaning. I think the topic starter might be in a spiral dive going nowhere, complaining about things that really do not matter. Someone has suggested already for him to speak to his doctor about it. That's a bit drastic maybe, but it makes more sense than opening topics about orange excrement on a public forum.

The employee assistance programme on 'inside' is actually very good! No comeback from ezy and is independent. If anyone in Easyjet has life stress or work stress I think it is worth checking out. It has been used already bu several guys off with fatigue or stress and the feedback thus far was positive! Lets hope Ezy leave it that way!

Sorry guys - I just do not buy this. The overwhelming majority of Gatwick-based easyJet Captains are not working themselves to death at this time of year. If you are a Trainer you may only do 2 or 3 flying days in a month plus 8 sims (my January roster has one rostered flight on it!). Let me ask one simple question - how many duty hours have you worked in the last 12 months and how many of those were home standby duties? You show those figures to anyone working in the City and they would bite your hand off.

Lord Spandex Masher - I think you probably work for FlyBe, and it appears you are earning well (senior Captain on the Embraer by the sound of things). I would have to say that your current roster is simply unsustainable. FlyBe have terrible load factors and are in a financial mess. Someone somewhere is going to have to sort that pretty quickly or it will be game over. Any solution to their problems will likely involve pay cuts, new roster agreements etc. For all easyJet's ills, and there are undoubtedly problems there, it is financially as safe as any airline can be. For that alone I am extremely grateful and very wary of jumping ship. There will always be people who will stay with a particular employer for a whole variety of reasons - that is great if you are one of those folks. It would, however, be true to say that if easyJet were to start a proper recruiting policy and take a pile of pilots from FlyBe, they would empty overnight. You could reasonably argue the same about easyJet - if BA were to look for 1000 pilots tomorrow then we would empty overnight. That is the key to assessing the best employers and seeing where a Company is in the pecking order of life. I have no doubt that specifically Emirates, BA and Cathay Pacific are higher up the pecking order than easyJet as an employer. I would place easyJet in pole position within the second tier. I would have to say that I place FlyBe substantially lower - in the third or fourth tier. That is not to knock them but to recognise the harsh realities of where people would wish to work if they had the chance. Whatever you like - decent (ie saleable) type ratings (Boeing or Airbus), good overall salary, 5/3/5/4 working pattern, job security etc , I would strongly suggest that easyJet is a great place to be. No one can yet name me a specific and better employer outside Emirates, Cathay and the legacy carriers that they would wish to work for. I am not trying to be 'Agent Orange' here - I am just recognising that the picture painted by 'as good as it gets' is simply not a reflection of how the overwhelming body of easyJet Captains see their jobs.

Lives, not quite, livelyhoods, yes, of about 1500 people. millions of £ of equipment.
License, not like my CPL, but I have to have training and 'certificates'.
My twice yearly checks aren't medical, so as long as I am competent in my job I don't have to worry about my health being the issue that sacks me.
Hostile? fairly, I work with automated machinery and robots, which can sever limbs or terminate life.
Noise induced stress? the machinery I work with has higher dbs than you'll experience in / around any aircraft (with exception maybe of sr71 or concorde, but then you're not flying one of those are you?).
I automate factories.
I chose my profession, I have a CPL and chose not to follow that route.
What I was trying to point out, was not that I have it bad, I love my job, but that we ALL have certain things about our jobs that we don't like. But really, the OP sounds like he's whinging about some really minor crap that most people have to deal with in the real world every day.

As an outsider and not knowing you personally, it sounds like you are suffering from serious fatigue. If possible, I really recommend you take at least three months off (unpaid if need be) to allow you to get some perspective and then consider your options. I fully know what it's like when you're fed up and recommend you don't make any questionable career decisions until you've had a chance to properly evaluate your position, and think about some of the positives.

Rostered 24 hours for January and its my reserve month. Rarely do I get any changes to my roster, I maybe one of the lucky ones. Over the past 12 months my rolling hours are 706. LGW based, left seat.

If I might comment further on this, I am a Gatwick-based TRE and my total duty hours are 1460 for the last 365 days of which over 90 were home standbys. Sure, within that there have been some truly dreadful days, as we all experience from time-to-time (I once had a 19 hour duty day, but that is another story!). I accept that will be less than a line captain as sim duties are 7 hours 20 mins compared to much longer on a flight duty usually. Nonetheless, my life is not untypical. I also accept that the cumulative effect of working bizarre hours (particularly if you work in the sim which runs 24/7) is very fatiguing. I reckon an easyJet TRE will earn around £130k - £140k a year (there are regional variations so that is only a rough guide), so it is not exactly a financial catastrophe.

I can only concur with the excellent advice of FANS about not doing something absolutely insane like walking out without a job until you take some time out. We all have dark moments where our world seems grim - the key is recognising that and not acting unwisely as a result of it. There are many Captains who have left easyJet and who have come to regret the decision. Speaking to them beforehand, there was nothing that could be done to persuade them that their proposed course of action was not in their own best interests. Clearly some have gone on to do well, particularly those who went to the desert or BA, but there are many who love to turn the clocks back and make a different choice.

I used to, yes. I think your analysis of Flybe is spot on. They can't even make a profit when guys are doing 24 sectors a week in two of the most efficient aircraft in the world. It's top heavy and appears to have its head firmly wedged in the sand. A roster like mine wouldn't be viable even if they'd let me get away with so little work!

I also agree with you about easyJet, in fact I got as far as turning down an interview with them in favour of my first command, I would have been financially a bit better off (they had proper contracts back then) but I would have done twice as much work as I have since that point - this year I've done 350 flying hours and a smidge over 1100 hours duty. I would put that kind of work/lifestyle balance way higher up the pecking order than 4 sector days, 5 days in a row and you can definitely count me out of the long haul/M25 rat race/London nightmare.

The thread starters post is a blue copy of the exact conditions in my outfit. Remove the reference of orange, and it would fit perfectly. I believe there are many out there that searches for that last decent airline to work for, but they have all disappeared. There are simply too many disadvantages with taking the whole family to the sandpit or Asia, and no job security whatsoever. The only option left is a change of career when the current airline finally sucks the last bit of motivation out of you.

He is probably suffering from chronic dissapointment , as they told him it would be like this . . . . . . .


Captain Gorgeous !! - YouTube




the beginning & the end, not the middle

If you all started playing hardball and grounded aircraft then all the nonsense would halt, but hey what do I know?

Me, I have left the airlines for good! (Hopefully)

Yes, lets ground the fleet tomorrow and slaughter our company publicly thus alienating our customers while placing all our futures in jeopardy by engaging in unofficial industrial action. Don't know why I didn't think of that.

Gatwick Captain here and I can't complain too much. My running totals for the
last 12 months is 645 hrs and I am a full time employee:ok: Money aint too bad either:)

As good as it gets--- a couple of years ago I was in the unfortunate position to find myself without a job.....full stop. I struggled to get a minimum wage job.

After struggling to pay the bills for months on end, I eventually found a job in a factory which entailed of counting ten packets and popping them inside a box. This lasted 12 hours a day for 3 days a week....7 days a week If requested,which often I had to do..#boringasf*ck

Eventually I gained employment as a pilot and have worked happily ever since,luckily with a mainline carrier. When I get bad days I put myself in the position I was in a few years ago.
I earned £200 a week in that job.

It's about time you sat back and realised how fortunate you are to be doing a Job that the majority of the population wish they could be doing., despite earning 90k+ a year.

As I said in a previous post, dry your eyes and quit crying like a child that's looking for a suck....

I think Nordicman has just summed it up!!
Some bases are not too bad if you are in the right position, hours ok, money rewarding.

But it doesn't seem consistent across the company.
Also you can't seem to get a deal like that anymore. If you're a captain great. If you move to the left hand seat ( many moving at the moment?) then ok ish.
But the contract guys get a rough deal.
How about the future, bet he deal NM is on wont be around for long!!

How long until this spreads? To the left hand seat or other companies and becomes the norm??

Problem is, ok guys like NM don't seem bothered. I'm alright Jack!!!
Again the every man for himself attitude will lead to an industry wide reduction of standards.


(Ps, I'm not having a personal dig at NM, I'm glad he has a job that suits him well. If only we could all be assured of positions like that these days. U fortunately they are few and far between and we as the workforce have to stand up to the companies who are walking all over our t&c).

But then you know we are fighting this through the union. Haven't the UK guys just voted away a B-scale? Isn't the same about to happen in other bases?

723hrs in the last 12 months, full time. LGW Captain. Can't complain.

Penko, I believe the problem then lies in the fact that yes, we voted out a B-scale but what has happened since? The situation is still the same as it was with no improvement.

Last webchat CMC stated that "Ryanair actually have comparable pay levels to competitors... and their way of operating gives them incredible flexibility.." my own interpretation of the words, I can't be arsed with looking for the text.

During merlin I remember CMC proudly stating "We are not Ryanair", now this change in rhethoric is alarming as it seems to point out a change towards the Ryanarization of the airline which certain ex-RYR executives who now work for us have tried to implement.

Look at the LIS contract, do you think a guy in the LHS there is being paid well enough for what he does? I am in the RHS and I earn more than a skipper in LIS. I'm sure the cost of living is not a reason enough for someone doing the same job as I am with a lot more responsibility earning so much less.

Beauport potatoman,

Your flying hours would explain my high hours! Working my butt off all the time +500 hrs in the last 6 months including 3 weeks off on holiday. :(

And I was going to suggest Lisbon as little holiday base to the original poster. Contract isn't good, true! But not many people here are complaining about lifestyle. Mostly experienced FO's so not too much stress, random roster but rarely ever work 5 days in a row.

Money isn't everything in life, if you can trade some in and improve your well being its money we'll spent.

There are a couple of guys in Easy who have returned from Emirates to the RHS, ask them how green the grass is!

There is, fortunately, an increasing dose of common sense and perspective here about the alternatives. The words of contributors like keep_er_lit and others are indeed cautionary tales. We know at easyJet we have a big issue related to the flexicrew problem. Our latest missive from our Head of Flight Operations (a good guy by the way) suggests it will all be resolved by the end of Jan 2013 - I personally think that is highly unlikely. Nonetheless, it will be resolved at some point and the vast majority of our pilots will have permanent contracts. Once that pressing issue is resolved we can then get back to making sure we remain in the excellent position we are right now. In terms of the running of the airline, love them or hate them, our managers are doing a great job of running an increasingly efficient operation, maintaining high load factors, bringing up the share price, increasing profit margins and keeping the investors happy. That is no mean feat and having had the misfortune to work for airlines with a significantly less competent management team and a dire financial position, I am very grateful for our current state. As I have said before, there are indeed better airlines out there than easyJet - but not many. Those of you thinking that Air Utopia is just waiting to offer you a job paying you twice as much for flying half your current schedule, whilst recognising your outstanding talent and contribution to the Company are likely to be sadly disappointed. It is a hard world out there for most people and I do not intend to jump off a a plain but fully functional ship in the hope of landing on the Queen Mary - only to discover myself floating on a life raft in shark-infested waters.

AdM
 

You say "the vast majority of our pilots will have permanent contracts".

Why not every single one of them?

You can pretend all you like about great management, but where is the respect and decency?

If even a single eJ pilot is on a "flex" contract, you will have left yourselves open for further, more egregious, division tactics in the future.

It should be every pilot on an eJ contract.

This is a serious PROFESSION, not some holiday job in a bar.:mad:

Narrow Runway - apologies if I did not explain that better. My reference to 'the vast majority' is simply because I envisage a 6-month probationary period similar to the period that happened with the original CTC guys. It is not because I see any place for flexicrew at easyJet.

Most permanent jobs in the UK usually have a probationary period written into the contract. This would usually be of six month duration, in some cases up to twelve.
So... with that in mind... The 'probationary' period argument for retaining flexicrew doesn't really stack up... :suspect:

Hypothetically, if someone was brought in on a permanent contract and grossly underperforming then the company would be well within their rights to terminate that individual's contract - if within said probationary period.

Having said that, there's a difference between someone 'underperforming' in their role and being let go as they are just not needed over the Winter... :=

Flexicrew needs to disappear - full stop.
Like any malignant growth, if it is not fully excised - you can expect it to flare up again in the future...

And we're getting upset about contract pilots who volunteered to buy their temporary jobs when a permanent Paris FO earns more than a Gatwick Captain and a Lisbon Captain earns less than a Gatwick FO? Same company, same aircraft, same routes. SAME PAY. That's what the slogan should be, not blethering on about p2f volunteers. That is a serious problem and it needs addressing, sure, but imho it isn't the elephant in the room.

Less than inflation pay settlement yet again after yet another set of record profits because the company "can't afford more"? And we swallow that?

What's the matter with us - and our unions?

:D:D:D:D:D
Well said, Wageslave!
However, is there not a European rule regarding equal remuneration for people in the same role? Might be an avenue for investigation?

If a company is doing well it should reward it's staff accordingly... Pure and simple. It's funny how directors never forget this when conducting their own pay/bonus review. :mad:

How much did Carolyn McCall receive this year? Two million in shares?
All the while flexicrew F/Os go bankrupt or struggle to live...
Nice people at the helm of the good ship Easyjet.

You know I completely empathise with As good as it gets.

I too as felt as he does, frequently, and I know I am far from being alone (despite some other postings on here).

I have contributed it to being constantly fatigued by long unsociable hours and the stress involved in flying almost daily with different individuals who have differing levels of ability and experience.

easyJet could make my life easier but they choose not to because "we need to remain competitive" and "our competition has greater flexibility and lower crew costs".

Yes, I get paid very well but I am too tired to enjoy it and constantly arguing with the inland revenue about how much tax I'm paying!

Unfortunately, with the exception of a few remaining legacy carriers, I think the good old days are well and truly gone.

As good as it gets?


















Probably.