Phensocks,

Can you guide me to the sentence where I said I'd stop Flexi under UK legislation?

As for U-turns, perhaps you could point me to that as well?

I feel very, very sorry for you. You are on a slippery slope to worsening terms and conditions. Perhaps not directly through pay cuts, but definitely on the way to pay cuts by erosion, via inflation, in real value of pay packets.

I am glad that I work for a company that doesn't rely on flying jets to make a profit. Contrary to the sad state of affairs in easyJet, our terms and conditions keep getting better and better. And significantly, too.

There may not have been a legal basis to stop Flexi FO's, but no-one even tried. And now the game is up.

Narrow Runway,

Genuinely I'm pleased for you.

However you still haven't said how you would have stopped flexicrew. So how would you?

Phensocks,

I can see you can type, but have difficulty reading.

I'll ask again. Can you point me to the sentence where I said I would stop Flexi under UK legislation?

Maz11,

I did not realise that the CTC/Parc guys were not employed by easyJet. I thought that was their recruitment route into the company. It's agreed that you have your hands tied on this matter right now so I apologise for making you headbutt the wall..!

ADM - you are almost correct but the ES actually stands for 'Everybody Shafted' :). If my posts lead you to believe I'm crusading against EJ the pilot as opposed to EJ the management, then put it down to heat-stroke and forgive me. It's 41 degrees right now..!

By the way, are flexi-crew able to enter the BAYE and SAYE schemes..?

Narrow Runway,

You excel at throwing accusations but alas you do not possess sufficient intelligence to offer a solution.

Phensocks,

You are making yourself look rather foolish.

I suggest you either put up, or shut up.

Can you refer me, at the 3rd time of asking, where I said you could stop Flexi under UK regs?

Craggenmore, No, flexicrew are not entitled to BAYE or SAYE share schemes as we are not employee's of easyJet.

''You had the power to stop Flexicrew at it's inception and you didn't."

NR, please explain to myself and poor phensocks just how we had 'The Power' to stop flexiscrew at it's inception:ugh::ugh::ugh:... muppet

easy
 

Why the heck do you bother paying your BALPA subs?

Muppet.

Good come back. :ok:

Narrow Runway,

I think you are inferring that Balpa members could have striked even though they would have had no legal standing.........and we would all live happily ever after. If not please explain your rationale.

booooooooring.

Errrr, no. I didn't ever mention a strike. AdM did.

If you didn't address Flexicrew through your BALPA CC at the time, but were more interested in saving crew food (as mentioned elsewhere) in a misguided attempt at appearing like a legacy airline, you wasted your only chance - the chance before management knew just how much money they'd save (and make in bonuses) through Flexicrew whilst shafting you all.

Do you think that BA, BY, MON et al have retained half decent terms of service for ALL their pilots by bending over at the first sign of trouble?

Even with PP34 in BA for new joiners, or 81% contracts in BY for new joiners, these are considerably better deals than Flexicrew.

You can hide all you like behind "regulation", but how much effort was put into saying no to Flexicrew by BALPA, with easyJet at the beginning?

How is the Trojan Horse? It must be getting quite tight in that room with the Elephant.

Foolish? The only person looking foolish is yourself Narrow Runway.

The same could be said of yourself.

You accuse the UK workforce of allowing flexi crew but when challenged, not withstanding your latest post, you can offer no reasoned argument to backup your accusation.

Drivel. Flexi crew was always going to happen. Read the Roland Berger report. Why do you think Warwick Brady was brought in as procurement director?! What do you think he was brought into procure? From the outset they knew the cost savings. You're stating management didn't know the cost savings involved? Clearly you're naive, stupid or both?!

I can think all have given concessions. BA closed the final salary scheme to new members. What do you think is going to happen when money purchase pilots out number final salary pilots?

The path may be different but end is still the same.

There is some light at the end of the tunnel. A number of noises are coming from various people within the Hangar and beyond to indicate that there is about to be a 'coming together' between Management and BALPA on this pressing issue. And yes, this is directly related to this thread and will have a massive effect on future recruitment contracts. Inevitably the Company want 'flexibility' - I can cope with that but will not cope any longer with anything less than 'easyJet pilots for easyJet cockpits'. In all honesty, like many other people I never foresaw the scale or level of abuse that flexicrew would bring to the industry as a whole. There were wiser people than me who did see it, but we are all now well and truly on board with this. I have woken up to the awful reality of this over the last couple of years or so, but the final straw for me has been the sacking of numerous flexicrew pilots contracted through Parc, and the 're-employment' of these very same pilots on dire permanent contracts in Germany. It is an outrageous abuse of power and comes straight from the Ryanair school of bad employment - not surprisingly given the senior positions that some ex-Ryanair managers now enjoy within the Company.

In the past, frankly, BALPA never really saw it either, and it was considered someone else's problem. Well it has now become all our problems and the signs are that this has become THE issue of the day between pilots and management - as well it should. There will inevitably be some horse trading, and neither side is going to get all it wants, but we have to have certain 'lines in the sand' before we go in. I have confidence in our new CC and the likely new CC Chairman to now put right the mistakes of the past. The unfortunate thing has been that until recently BALPA have given the distinct impression to the Company that they accept a certain level of flexicrew is inevitable. That is absolutely wrong in my view, and while I accept a certain level of crew 'flexibility' is required (particularly in smaller bases), I absolutely reject the idea that any pilot outside their probationary period (say 6 months) should not be permanent employees. Time will tell what progress, if any, will be made. This is now everyone's problem and it is well and truly centre stage.

I wish you all the luck and support. I couldn't agree with your sentiments in the above post more. If you need anymore support than from an anonymous forum I'd be very happy to help. Just PM me and I hope everyone else on here and in real life will too. The bickering children posting above are as bad as each other!!!! I have an army of TP guys beside me who would be willing to help, support and be employed!!!

Please keep on fighting for all of us!

All the best

Oh mongoose your cup is half full. I will only believe it when I see it. My spirit is so much improved by the addition of wireless in crew rooms however.

Let's bribe the natives with beads and mirrors.:yuk:

Could you also tell me why it has taken BALPA so long to recognise the corrupt practice of flexicrew? There is no way I will ever be convinced that BALPA has the moral compass to do the honest thing.


Was the last CC in the management pocket? Is the last chairman not off to some other business position within the company? Is the LGW pilot manager not a previous CC member.

If you are all relying on BALPA and the crew council to come riding to the rescue you will have a long wait. USELESS :yuk:

From BALPA


The British Airline Pilots’ Association (BALPA) told the Trades Union Congress (TUC) that its support for consideration of a general strike is “not in our name.”
*
Commenting, Jim McAuslan, BALPA’s General Secretary, who spoke against the motion this afternoon, said,* ‘BALPA is not afraid of standing up to employers, but today’s motion was not about challenging our employers, it was about challenging the Government.* And that is a political battle which will be won or lost at the ballot box, not through widespread industrial action.*
*
‘Now is the time for trade unionists to be secure in the power of our arguments, not misled by arguments of our power.* It’s a time to be cool, not prone to bluster.* Putting aside concerns about the legality of a general strike, and whether people would take part in sufficient numbers, we have to ask, “is this the right thing to do?”.* The answer from BALPA and a number of other unions was a definite no.
*
More from BALPA reference BMI

‘Pilots are not to blame for this closure and have continued to operate professionally and safely with the threat of redundancy looming. But they have been badly let down on many fronts.* Employees are now left as the ones “holding the baby”.

‘Lufthansa has let pilots down by keeping us at arm’s length from would-be buyers, pressing us to accept cuts in pay and conditions with the false hope of a promising future, and even accepting training payments from pilots joining the company earlier this year.

‘The new management is letting pilots down, and although BA always made it clear that bmi baby did not fit into their business plan and would be closed, it has taken an extremely parsimonious approach to redundancy payments, done nowhere near enough to provide people with a future in British Airways itself, and even refused to write off the training bonds provided by new pilots. We have recently met the BA Chief Executive and hope that our description of the plight these pilots are facing may mean a change of stance.

‘And Government has let pilots down. Pilots being made redundant, many mid-career, will find it very difficult to find alternative employment; it is not the sort of job you will find advertised at the Job Centre.* The Government has not lifted one finger to help. BALPA has sought support from Government and made a number of suggestions to Ministers in the Department of Work and Pensions and at Vince Cable’s BIS Department. The response has been poor, with not even an acknowledgment from BIS.

‘But BALPA will not let pilots down and although the airline stops flying today [Sunday] we will continue to challenge British Airways and the Government to up their games using all means – including legal action – at our disposal.* We will also be helping pilots into other jobs and keeping them in touch with industry developments.’* *

It's everyone else's fault. :{

Mr Mugabe - very valid questions, but I do not quite buy the conspiracy theory. I cannot remember where NC (the outgoing CC Chairman) is headed, but it is something like the EPG works council committee. As far as I can tell he will not be handsomely rewarded for his troubles - thank goodness someone wants to do that sort of thing, because I certainly do not. As for the LGW Pilot Manager (soon to be 'Base Captain' under the new terminology!), she is frankly outstanding. She was great with BALPA and exactly who I would want as a manager. She is not afraid to wield the big stick if required, but absolutely and totally devoted to the well-being of the pilot community. Frankly, I cannot imagine anyone I would want more in that position. Whether we like it or not, the same qualities that make good BALPA reps are the same ones that make good managers - as you may be aware, it is a well-trodden path from BALPA rep to airline exec.

Regarding BALPA's past failings, they are evident to us all in regards to flexicrew. Nonetheless, they are all we have and I am hopeful, but cautious, that we are now entering a new phase. I think that there are positive signs all round about the provision of permanent contracts, but the real danger is that they come at the price of a degraded contract. I would be happy to accept lower initial starting terms to sweeten the blow to the Company, but what I am not willing to accept is a lessening of the final SFO/Capt Ts & Cs. Time will tell what the real deal will be. One thing is sure, there is much to be fought over in the days ahead.

Out of interest, how long before the Flexi-Crew become the majority workforce?

Why should the management ever offer a permanent contract to any pilot ever again?

It is not in their interest (quite the opposite) and there seems to be nothing to stop them. If anything, the pace of complete transition to contract pilots seems to be increasing - both at the top and the bottom. The pilots I speak to regard it as an inevitability, and are simply hopeful that they can hang on to their Ts and Cs until retirement. They are wrong.

Every day we "reengage" another contract pilot arrives thus diluting an already weak workforce. If I was management the very last thing on my agenda would be a return to permanent contracts. I would, of course, be telling the pilots otherwise. In fact, I would probably promote USay to add to the smoke and confusion.