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It's a whole months work. The scheduling department publish all the different work patterns for the month roughly 6 weeks before and you bid for the ones that you like the look of/ think you can get depending on your seniority . All bids are processed in seniority order and after a second stage of bidding to make your line up to the required hours (called cap) for the month (defined by the company depending work available and pilots available) you have your roster. And not a stupid question . I had no idea what It was before I joined either !
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Thanks for the replies
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Apologies if this doesn't quite fit into the DEP discussion, but is there any word on the vine (from those in the know), with respect to whether the FPP is likely to run again this year?
Realise with all the external factors BMI, economy etc. it may be difficult to say. Rgds |
Make your own assumptions, but my guess is no. |
Its all going through!?
(Reuters) - British Airways owner IAG is set to be given the go-ahead by the EU to buy German group Lufthansa's British airline bmi after offering to give up additional airport slots, a person familiar with the matter said on Thursday.
IAG (ICAG.L) has reached a deal worth 172.5 million pounds to buy its smaller rival and had initially proposed to relinquish 10 slots. It increased the number to 14 slots after rivals complained the concessions were not sufficient. It was not clear at which airports the 14 slots are located. Antoine Colombani, a spokesman for the competition unit at the European Commission, declined to comment on the case. IAG and Lufthansa also declined to comment. The European Union executive was due to decide by Friday whether to give the deal regulatory clearance. IAG trumped rival bidder Virgin late last year in the race to acquire loss-making bmi, which has coveted slots at London's Heathrow airport, Europe's busiest. IAG currently has a 43.1 percent share of the take-off and landing slots at Heathrow. Together, IAG and bmi have a combined share of 53 percent of the airport's slots. Virgin has again urged EU regulators to block the deal, saying it would leave competition in British aviation distorted. "BA's proposed competition remedies to get this purchase cleared are woefully inadequate and will ensure that BA continues to control all of the key domestic and some international routes," Virgin founder Richard Branson wrote in a letter to the EU's commissioner of competition, Joaquin Almunia. "I am really battling to understand why the commission seems to be bending over backwards to clear this deal at phase one rather than submitting it to the proper scrutiny intended in phase two of the clearance process." Branson added that Virgin was prepared to re-open discussions with Lufthansa if the deal was not cleared. IAG's next deal may be made further afield after it said on Thursday it was looking at investing in Japan Airlines' JAL.L planned initial public offering later this year. IAG shares in London were flat at 178.2 pence, while Lufthansa shares in Frankfurt were 1.3 percent down at 10.46 euros. I wonder if this is good news??? Any thoughts? |
787 A380 delivery
guys bit of tangent,
But does anybody know when BA are expecting there first 787 and A380 aircraft to be delivered- on the internet there are various dates but doesn't seem accurate- was wondering if anyone could help me out(for a university presentation) thanks in advance regards |
a380 Jan 2013
787 May 2013 |
thanks buddy
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From IAG: REGULATORY APPROVAL FOR BMI DEAL The European Commission (EC) has today given regulatory approval for International Airlines Group's purchase of bmi from Lufthansa. Some technical conditions need to be finalised before completion, which is anticipated to take place around April 20, 2012. Following completion, it is intended that bmi mainline will be integrated into British Airways during the coming months. IAG has offered the following commitments to the EC as part of the regulatory process: · Seven daily slot pairs to be used between Heathrow and either Edinburgh and/or Aberdeen. · Five daily slot pairs to be used between Heathrow and the following destinations - Nice, Cairo, Riyadh, Moscow, Edinburgh and/or Aberdeen. · Two Heathrow daily slot pairs will be leased to Transaero for use on flights to Moscow. · Other airlines can apply for seats on the integrated BA/bmi short and midhaul network for their transfer passengers, on normal commercial terms. IAG chief executive Willie Walsh said: "We're delighted the EC has given competition approval for our acquisition of bmi. Their decision follows a thorough review during which the views of key stakeholders have been taken into account. "This is great news for Britain. Over time we will launch new longhaul routes to key trading nations that are currently not served from Heathrow while supporting our shorthaul network. This is good for UK business and UK consumers. We have already announced that British Airways will re-start flights from Belfast to Heathrow, maintaining important economic links. "Expanding our longhaul network also helps Heathrow grow as an international hub airport despite its infrastructure constraints. "This deal will maintain high quality jobs at bmi and create similar jobs when we expand. More British jobs will be saved than if bmi had closed. British Airways will consult with bmi staff and their unions as soon as possible. "We plan to operate bmi's summer schedule and will update their customers once the transaction has been completed". The acquisition cost of bmi is unchanged at £172.5m in cash, on a debt-free, cash-free basis, but is subject to significant price reductions if Lufthansa does not opt to sell bmi baby. IAG's Heathrow slot portfolio, excluding the commitments made to the EC, will increase by at least an average of 42 daily slot pairs. The transaction is still expected to be earnings accretive by 2014 at the latest. The commitments do not affect IAG's plans to increase its 2015 operating profit target of €1.5 billion by €100 million and its target of delivering a 12 per cent return on capital employed. IAG estimates that restructuring costs related to the integration of bmi will be around £100 million spread over three years with the majority in year one. |
@ LHRbound
no offense - but this is not directly relevant to DEP selection - besides wild speculation what it could mean for DEP. (i know previous contributions were not spot on either but with these news, this will start all over again). Please start a new thread if you want to dicuss the BMI acquisition. /edit: i do think it is interesting but it will bloat this thread, making it impossible to later go through and pick out actually relevant points with regards to DEP selection. |
No you are right let's keep it to the 'give us an example of a time where you built a school for a load of third worlders questions' and the 'hi mate I was on the 14th of whatever selection and I didn't get in but I'm really pleased for you that you did because BA selectors might be here on pprune and be able to decipher my 'name' ' comments because they are really useful.
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Another, IAG's approval to acquire bmi is directly relevant to DEP selection. In order to give a slightly less cynical reaction than the one supplied by BlackandBrown, the reason for its relevance is that existing hold pool members or those applicants awaiting to attend their Day 2 assessments are now staring into an abyss of uncertainty.
IAG have had to agree to surrender 14 slot pairs once belonging to bmi in order to secure the EU's approval of the deal. If you are interested in what this potentially means, direct your eyes to another thread running alongside this one in the T&E section - "Virgin and Balpa - bmi next?" From reading this thread you will probably note that there is some reasonably convincing arguements relating to a letter published by the BA Company Council on the BALPA forum. This letter I believe suggested that if any requirement was made for IAG to surrender slots aquired through the bmi merger then the potential for flight crew job loses at bmi was not to be underestimated. I'm not sure where you sit in the BA DEP process at the present time, Another? However if you are one of the guys keeping his fingers crossed that BA DEP recruitment will reopen in the not so distant future then I might take a rain check. If you are unaware, not so long ago, the existing and limited number remaining in the pool had their tenures extended to a maximum of 18 months and any future recruitment was suspended from the end of this month. I apologise if you are already aware of this and if this has affected you directly then I feel your pain. However you cannot suggest that today's decision by the regulator has no bearing on DEP recruitment at BA. It may even possibly do so for a lengthy period of time. |
dear BlackandBrown, and Callsign Kilo,
i am happy to start posting the daily oil price. based on it going up or going down, we can speculate how many people BA will hire next year ;-) fair enough - more "tell me about a time" is not useful i do care about news from people within the pool getting classes, or emails going out to those in the application process. and yes, the bmi approval has some kind of implication. lets see if we are any smarter regarding the DEP process and actual chances 10 posts further down the line :-) on the other hand, as no news are to be expected any time soon about DEP, may as well keep going for now instead of letting the thread get pulled into the dead corners of pprune... |
See also BALPA Statement especially:
‘BA’s parent company IAG has so far made it clear that they only intend to run the bmi Mainline operation and that although they must take over the bmi Baby and bmi Regional businesses as part of the transaction, these businesses do not figure in their plans. BALPA will be looking to protect those jobs whether in IAG or with any other potential buyer. Depending on how BALPA succeed in their aims, one could find some (all?) of these 290 pilots retained in IAG/BA, or fast-tracked into the entry process etc. No idea of the direct implications for the DEP process, but I hardly think it would improve the chances of it re-opening :confused: |
As an interested outsider, I cannot help noticing that recent posts seem to be ignoring the stated intention of BA to use their newly-acquired slots for long-haul services rather than short-haul.
Rather than requiring one two-person crew per day for a short-haul slot pair, the head count is likely to go up two three-person crews, with probably at least one more crew night stopping somewhere interesting like Seoul or Rangoon. So the numbers going through the DEP process may even increase substantially as a result of the merger. |
Trouble is to make use of the new long haul slots will require the use of new long haul aircraft. So yes the headcount will eventually go up but it's going to be 3-4 years before the hulls are in place creating a medium term pilot surplus.
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DEP guys or anyone in the holdpool, be patient. The training department is maxed on bmi crew (very welcome crew) joining us from May onwards. Once bmi guys (I'm ex bmi) are SOP integrated to discuss Threats and Big Picture during their briefs are integrated, then hold pool recruitment will resume and therefore assessment. Best wishes to everyone joining.
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bmi baby and regional pilots being integrated is never going to happen. Sorry.
Also CR is very unlikely, I'm sure 3800 pilots can absorb a surplus easily with voluntary measures, esp with a lot of over 55s and 60s in both airlines. The only downside for DEPs waiting is that you've just lost 300 seniority places overnight. The good news is these extra slot pairs means you actually haven't lost anything as the airline is expanding, and as someone said in the long term there will be even more expansion as these slots are converted to LH. |
Cityflyer, as somebody in BA what is your estimate for the duration of the recruitment freeze? I know there are quite a few anxious people reading this thread, some having been placed in the hold pool and the likes of me, waiting for the sim.
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I think some people should bear that in mind when they post on here, as some tone suggests personalities that don't fit into those categories. Keep calm and carry on and all that. Worse things happen at sea! |
If it helps you guess the delay in recruitment, my internal course has been put back 4 months, and I was one of the first in the queue. That fits in with the time needed to integrate BMI crews. I guess business as normal from September now. Hang in there.
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Cityflyer,
You seem to be fairly well informed, it really is welcome for us to get as much accurate info as possible!! I'm sure everyone either through or waiting for selection can be positive about the future in BA. Thanks and hoping to join you in the promised land soon! |
Didn't realise a number of BMI pilots would lose their jobs through the IAG buyout. Sorry for those in this position. I feel for you; been through it myself recently.
However, will this affect those in the hold pool? EDIT: I guess not since as I understand it there is no merging of BMI pilots with the 'master' BA seniority list, and thus BA's requirement for mainline pilots to cover expansion/retirement remains unchanged? Have I got this correct? |
This is strange to say the least. My sympathies to those pilots who were made redundant. It appears redundancy has been made prior to BA effectively purchasing Bmi, so it suggests DLH have made these guys redundant. Bmi's regional bases are to be shut, so regardless of seniority, if you are based outside Heathrow then redundancy beckons. If you are Heathrow based then you will be integrated across. LIFO doesn't appear to apply at all which completely undermines the seniority system.
One thing that may not bode too well is that if these guys were a requirement then London based positions would have been offered. This doesn't appear to be the case which may suggest BA is now surplus pilots and may even make further redundancies once the integration of the LHR operation progresses. This won't be an overnight job by any stretch of the imagination. I guess LC will tell us in good time, however the extension of the holdpool to 18 months suggests that lengthy period for allowing the dust to settle is more than likely. Fingers crossed for all concerned and condolences to those bmi guys and girls facing unemployment. |
There won't be any "negotiation" between the BMIcc and IAG. There will, however, be a "consultation" which is very different from "negotiation."
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Have heard that recruitment is frozen until at least March 2013 whilst the BMI integration is completed and the required headcount is reassessed.
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Has this information came from the Rivers/Cranebank?
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via a communication to BMI mainline pilots.
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Can you give more details FW? Recruitment is frozen as in won't reopen to applicants (nothing new), or as in no jobs from hold pool ??
Some of us hanging on to every bit of info here like dear life! |
Sorry, don't have any further info.
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I heard something similar. No more courses until the next training year (after April 2013). I have nothing to do with recruitment, and neither does the person I heard that from, although they are a TRE.
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They may as well close the hold pool now then, at least everyone would know where they stand.
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Indeed Fat Dog. But they haven't - thankfully! In fact, they have extended it to 18 months. So there must be hope, or at least uncertainty. I don't think any airline can predict recruitment needs a year in advance. The industry is too changeable...
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I have no further info to add but I think and perhaps someone could confirm a training year in BA now starts jan1st every year so perhaps no courses until jan 2013. Not much better but nevertheless a little for those limited by hold pool deadlines.
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Why? That makes no sense at all.
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SkyRocket,
Sadly that won't happen. What may happen is that they'll get fast tracked through selection then into the hold pool. It will probably be handled the same way ex-2008 hold poolers were dealt with. Also the extension of the current hold pool validity to 18 months is just BA protecting its investment in the people they've selected. |
Off to the Middle East then to fast track the career, at least the pay will be better!
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Well that's certainly one of the proposals that is being put forward with the added support of the BACC. Time will tell I guess, and as we all know, what they've done in the past counts for very little.
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Current Holdpoolers
There are under fifty guys treading water, living from speculation and very little hard evidence. Current happenings at BA have made it very difficult to forecast and I genuinely feel the only real guidance that can be given is 'you must be prepared to wait it out and see what develops.' The purchase of bmi is undoubtably a major long term coup for IAG, however it is posing as a massive swerve ball in the short term. A multitude of people have been affected.
It seems a little selfish to talk about those waiting patiently in the wings whenever 1500+ will loose their jobs due to the integration. We aren't even touching on the outcome of those within Baby and Regional. However those currently in the holdpool applied to BA when the purchase of bmi from DLH wasn't even part of the public domain. I know this means little, however the last four to six months have seen a major movement of the goalposts for potential DEPs. New joiners will now arrive on a vastly different pay scale with potentially 300+ pilots ahead of them on the MSL; and that's IF they get to join. I realise the later is undecided, however it could offer considerable consequences to someone joining an airline where the motto is "Seniority is Everything." The above is not a complaint. Business is business and timing is everything. IAG appears duty bound to the integration of mainline, and I for one hope the transition is smooth, timely and painless. This, I think, is the best outcome for those within the holdpool looking for some degree of clarity on their positions. However I envisage a substantial wait ahead before anyone hears anything conclusive. Who knows if what SkyRocket10 claims regarding the Regional and Baby guys will infact transpire? However I, for one, will be royaly pissed if it occurs. I am not detracting from the pain that pilots within Baby and Regional must be experiencing and I am all for giving them opportunity during the next campaign, however surely logic appeals to the holdpool being emptied first. I've just about come round to the fact that there are guys within mainline who were deemed unsuitable by assessors at Cranebank not so long ago. They will be starting their BA OCCs soon. So I've ended sounding like a selfish soul, however I'm hoping for a fair crack of the whip somewhere down the line. A simple case of protecting your investment, which seems to be the running theme during the BA/bmi integration process. Goodluck to those concerned. |
Yes, I think you are right. BA training years are now Jan to Dec.
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