Emirates - not the answer!
 

Fancy joining EK? These are the facts on just some of the current problems:

1) Rostering - The normal computerized system which allocates your roster is now being done manually as major pilot shortages do not allow for the program to complete the process. This is resulting in significant numbers of pilots on top bids getting none of their flights. Instead you are being given the opposite - high amount of night turnarounds or 5-7 day trips away from home.

2) Annual Leave - There is NO annual leave available for the next 4 months. There are a very large number of pilots who still have leave to take - above the 15 days that can be rolled over. Forget what your contract says. Ops and Fleet have said that all leave will need to be rolled over to next year as there are no days available for forced leave either. Warnings are being heard from rostering and the planners about next years leave being tougher to get, which means the days rolled over will most likely not be honored. Don't forget that if you join EK you are banned from taking leave for the first 6 months! :=

3) Training - Poor standardization, poor levels of trainers being attracted due to very few applications to join the training department. When asked about this situation Capt AS suggested crews should return to their old companies if they don't like it! This is being combined with current trainers being heavily over worked resulting in many long term and respected trainers resigning. Type Ratings have been outsourced. CU's are fluctuating with many students very unhappy with the courses as no training is actually being undertaken. :*

4) Travel - flights to and from many destinations are consistently over booked so flights home on staff travel are not listed for use by crew and their families. Returning home has become very difficult on staff travel.

5) Pay - the target for this years results is incredibly high considering the world market. No profit share is expected, in turn with no pay rise. The earliest would be mid 2013. Even with pilot shortages widely reported EK will not adjust pay for new joiners, current crew and the training department. The DVP's do enjoy fat bonuses though!

6) Accommodation - the responsible department is incredibly unhelpful and many times rude to both new joiners and long term staff. The department staff are quick to file reports against you if they feel you are being pushy. The attitude is very much of tough luck and if you opt out of company accommodation then notification and conclusion of your stay is generally very short notice. As no leave is available this has resulted in high costs and hassle for crews which is not recoverable from the company.

7) Company Ethos - Both pilots and CC live under a fear of consistently being reported and face company action. This is resulting in crews not filling reports on incidents or filling reports for everything to try and cover themselves. Safety and efficiency is talked about, but the working environment is the far opposite. Any problems taken to management are pushed under the rug as even the managers are fearful of being seen to be out of touch and lacking control of their department. Safety is an issue!

8) No union - EK does not have a union and it does not look like it will. There are many crews talking about something similar which is hopeful, yet with senior management telling pilots to leave if they complain it will take something substantial for any change.

Again EK is not the answer!!

There are no DEC and it looks as if that will not change. The significant grief and unrest caused by the last DEC intake would mean the atmosphere in EK would get worse if the decision changed. The company portrays happiness and growth, but the expansion to too rapid and the crews are feeling it with no support from the management. This is evident with the A330/40 fleet and the B777 fleet flying 95hrs per month on night turn arounds or with minimum rest in between flights. Be aware that the FAA are in discussion with the EK over concerns about minimum rest periods on flights to the USA.

Divorce - it is well known that EK has one of the highest divorce rates amongst any other airline in the world. The Middle East is not as joyous as the recruitment wagon portrays and with crews away from home and fatigue on the increase the family suffers the most.

Ask the questions to the EK wagon but do not be surprised if the questions are shrugged off. They have targets to hit. Asking recruitment is not the answer as apparently most of the department do not operate the line or are guys on sick leave and are trying to hold on to their jobs.

I say again these are the facts as I have found in the 26 months I have been with EK. If you do join - then beware. You thought life in your old company was poor, wait till you come to the dessert!

So what's your game plan OzzieA380... remaining or departing.

Maybe he's applied to Ryanair, captjns?

You'll take him under your wing:ok:.

( wait till you come to the dessert!)
Ahhah! A duff old pile of pudding then?

I'm surprised to hear this, as will sum of my ex FR colleagues! All of the above sounds just like Ryanair, but without the sand. :eek:

So the grass isn't always greener...but the sh#t is always brown!

Ho hum....

Departing - I have applied for other carriers and thankfully have interviews lined up. A few of my old class mates from my TR were exRyanair and have made similar comments about EK being the long haul version of Ryanair! :ugh:

I was going to stay till command but the CU seems to be longer than promised, and with things the way they are pre & post training it's not worth it!

These are only just SOME of the problems at EK!

Simply put, you have been warned! :=

Middle East
 

Surprised? What planet have you been living on? Didn't you read that "Ryanair exodus, what's the plan?" topic? It's all same sh!t, different name except the size of the bling bling factor, either a 737/A320 or a 777/380. Or did you really believe that they were going to treat some infidel immigrant worker nicely over there? :rolleyes: (look here for the discussion about "exit permits" in Qatar)

It's typical that the people who choose to work for these kind of outfits (shiny jets & quick commands) always suddenly want to leave when they find out it's not as rosy as it was when they were wearing those rose tinted glasses searching for greener grass, and then make exactly the same mistakes when looking for the next airline to work for.

Generally speaking there's a price to pay for those 'quick upgrades on bling bling shiny jets.' Here's a summary;

*) megalomaniac CEO's
*) located in 3rd world countries with 3rd world labor laws (Ireland, UK, Qatar, UAE etc), which leads to...
*) no or powerless unions, leading to...
*) no or a very limited seniority system, which leads to...
*) a culture of snitching and @ss kissing in order to...
*) divide and conquer and instill fear so that...
*) management can dictate whatever they want and...
*) push the envelop on fatigue and generally lower T&C's in the industry, leading to...

:{

Have fun guys! :\

Ireland & the uk are third world countries? Interesting...

Not so much third world countries. But third world labour laws? Not far off....

The 'no union' argument is on its way out. In effect, only BA have a pilot's union in the UK. And even that will change, now that Willie has sampled the ingrained '(ex) nationalised industry' culture, courtesy the cabin crew.

Face it, in a few years, nowhere will be 'safe'.

Unfortunately I completely agree. :sad:

The main question IMHO is where you want to be in a few years time: a) in Europe where you can still enjoy a few (alas less and less) civil liberties, or b) in a culturally and religiously different (hostile?) environment where you are nothing more than cheap imported labour without any rights.

Bokkenrijder's tone may be one of 'get it right up you!' However he or she gives a pretty accurate account

That's what you were at Ezy Bokkenrijder :ok:

Oz 380.... is it a well known fact that EK is number one in Divorce?? Thats news to me. Actually I know more wifes that want to stay in Dubai than pilots... great girly lifestyle.

I wish you luck in your new job

EK London roadshows
 

There might be a "pilot shortage" at EK but when I sent an email to the recruitment email address given on their website to apply for a pre-selection interview in London......no response! Tried again....still nothing. I'm assuming they either fully booked, have no professional courtesy or....maybe it's just me!:confused:

EK, the problem pilot creator
 

No thanks to EK; it hoisted a lot of undeserving wannabes up well above their stations onto the shiny new jets. These fellas then bailed out of the sandpit for KAL only to sell their :mad: EK practices to our bunch of dumbo management; now we do on-line computer courses on our own time, self study CDs and flash drives, etc. Damn; sell your :mad: practices elsewhere please!

A bit of topic. As far as I know there is serious need for experienced A320 drivers at among others EZY, German Wings, Qatar, WizzAir, JetStar, Korean (for other types), etc. The shortage is not yet such that the airlines are lowering their recruitement standards. So: yes there will be experienced people that will not be hired.

HAEJUNGKUK,

"These fellas then bailed out of the sandpit for KAL"

Please enlighten us with the number of EK pilots who arrived at KAL:ugh:

I think I can count them on the number of 1 hand, maybe 2:=

Please lets keep it to the facts!

desertdude...before you chide a guy, please for your own credibility, do your own homework. Those post icons ain't no cutey when you are dead wrong. You only make haejungkuk more credible when people find out that he is indeed right.

The last I counted, there were 12 ex-EKs on the 777 and 11 on the A330 in KAL. Much as I hate to agree with a local wonderboy, I think EK guys ingratiated themselves to the KAL management with suggestions of " super money saving " !!!! that have us all doing recurrent and other ground school stuff via computer on our own time!

Years ago, KAL expat pilots were asked to come out with money saving ideas; the same ideas brought by the EK guys were discussed amongst ourselves BUT WE NEVER THOUGHT TO GIVE KAL MANAGEMENT ANY IDEAS THAT ARE DETRIMENTAL TO PILOTS. Any ideas for cost savings which ended up screwing pilots' quality of life ( commuting contracts are pretty demanding on pilots' private life ) were a NO NO...........alas then came the frogg from the sandpit, and we were screwed big time!

Built4Speed - sorry mate not ex-lowcost but exQF. The move to EK was the worst in my career. Time to get out before things get worse! :uhoh:

DavidJH - I did warn you! Its pointless chasing EK Recruitment they probably think "We're Emirates so who cares". Most of them are ex-pilots who have lost their medical and need to be thrown back into the dunnie! :D

Just heard from my neighbor who is a doctor at the EKClinic and apparently they are now being pushed not to sign crews sick as it is effecting the rosters and operation! Down the slope we go!! :*

You left QF for EK?? Voluntarily? I just don't even know where to start...

I see nothing has changed since I left a couple years back. The only helpful thing I got from these morons was the TR which was the key to join the present company - one (still) without a fear and reporting culture.

This is where end- capitalism, liberalism and power awareness lead to. Should have read Animal Farm earlier! :8

Ozzie, thanks for the warning. Always good to get both sides of the story though, so I thought I'd give it a bash. I am, however, very disillusioned with, not only the airline industry, but aviation in general. Time to retire?
Anyway, all the best with your endeavours.

Well said, well said Calvin:D:D:D. Never give KAL management any ideas on how to screw pilots' quality time away from flying!

Makes me wonder why EK guys running away from that system wants to introduce their :mad: practices in kimchiland:ugh:

Oh Whoopieeeeeeeeee, so the full amount of 20 or so guys left EK to move over to KAL? In the what?...............last...... 8 years or so? And all joined the KAL Flight Ops management as well? :hmm:

Grow up.

It needed just one a***hole to brown nose and poison the minds of the management on ways to screw pilots. You posted misleading info on numbers of ex-EK who ventured to Korea, so now you want to go whooopie for us to believe in your twisted logic? Talk about not taking kindly to " loss of face " ala kimchi style! I totally agree with Calvin and Chuck.

A few people have left EK and think it was a great decision for family, kids etc.
A few did the above and now want to return as circumstances have changed.
A few got fired.
I wonder who would be so vitriolic on this site.

Someone quoting left QF to come to EK was worst mistake ever, has he read a newspaper recently?

2700 pilots and 20 whingers on here, must be doing pretty well:E

And how exactly would etihad remove negative posts???? I know it is not a bed of roses there but maybe if there are no negative posts it is a good thing!?

They always say the grass is always greener on the other side. But you still have to cut that grass.

EY pilots don't post anymore because E tihad is the best airline in the world, not because a well known forum was subpoenaed by their lawyers into revealing the names of the pilots who posted negative comments.

Nice one NG
Pprune rolled over like an ol ho' :}

Great shame if those comments are true.

In reality how they prove who each person is on an anonymous forum is another matter.

For that reason I suspect these rumours are only to be believed by those who enjoy being drawn in by dramatic, overhyped stories. Those personalities who most probably enjoy a good browse of the Daily Mail........

Not exactly sure how that could work, unless someone were dumb enough to connect his screen name with his true name. :confused:

Well said Calvin; then Now before the new AVP has even warmed the toilet seat, we already have admiral nelson knocking on his door " offering his unwavering and steadfast services to help the management "........here we go again! Watch out for the anaconda!

Bad rubbish from EK, now sewer water from Varig if the new AVP do take up his offer?

please send admiral nelson to his waterloo! insufferable piece of work, flying with him across the andes is a real torture as he seeks to impress you with his knowledge of volcanoes, volcanic ash, mountains and american airlines cali accident....with jepessen enroute charts and his own charts strewn all over. is he still bribing the chief pilots with his brazillian coffee? how's the other samba bloke who speaks to the korean pilots in his impeccable korean eventhough all the others around them can only speak and understand english?

EK has some koreans and there are about a dozen in EY......they all seem very happy in the sandpit from what I heard.

EK may not be the answer, but it's still a damn sight better than the other big two Gulf mega-carriers :ouch::ouch:

Varig sewer?
 

Spreading all over the world! Unfortunately not only the cockpit is affected.

That's a very defeatist attitude Ozzie380. But as I have never been there and thinking of going, I take your comments on board. But your comments are the shortest quibs I have read about any other airline so in my case I think Minority rules and I will apply anyway. We will always have something to moan about and life is never how you expect it to be. We just have to make the best of our poor lives, that is compared to all the people out of work or actively seeking work. That ole phrase, "aren't you lucky to have a job", springs to mind(I hate that phrase too). I notice you never mentioned about how little they will be paying you for all these inconveniences. The fact is that wherever you work, you will have something to gripe about, but I think EK suitably compensate you for that. If we wanted all the things you are looking for we wouldn't be pilots. Due respect to your comments though. I appreciate them and will take them on board. Thanks for taking the time to write down the misgivings that I think are in every airline.

@ lucky sky toddler

why is EK better then EY or Qatar??
I am new in this area and would like to know the major differences..

thanks