Swiss discrimination or it's everywhere??
 

Just received an email from Swiss (Air):


how a german company can discriminate like this?german company in Switzerland.it seems switzerland is the only country on this continent who discriminate people included his own citizen.

where do you stand if you have 38days, and 1 minute? does it mean you can not fly anymore?.


and found this too;

Saudi Gazette - Out-of-work Saudi pilots voice red-tape grouse on Facebook

What a load of non sense. Swiss is a very European company hiring a lot of Europeans. And although they might have a German shareholder it is still a Swiss company complying with Swiss law. :rolleyes:

Swiss non-dominance
 

Errr they were bought, are now owned and effectively managed at the top by Germans, old chap. Had that not happened, they would have gone bankrupt for the 3rd time.

They may be hiring Europeans, but only those who speak German. Consider you were a Swiss national from the French or Italian part of the country, then you would still not be eligible to apply unless you speak German! It's absolutley ridiculous! Considering they are quite short of pilots, they are not helping themselves!

Knowledge of some local language is something that many if not most european carriers require. Weird that Swiss only requires german now, a few years it was german and french (both, not one of them). Age discrimination if of course outlawed in europe, but switzerland is not in the EU and therefore does not have to comply with european laws, quite possibly that is still legal there. By the way, there are a few areas where selection based on age is still allowed even in the EU.

:bored: That's complety true! I'm Swiss and I always wanted to apply for Swiss since i was 23 but I couldn't because I don't have my mother tongue as German or I don't have a B2 certificate.

That's not correct for all the people in Switzerland, in fact it's true that German is the most important region and language but we are a country where the three regions are part of the cultural integrity of this modern country, said that Swiss doesn't want to reflect this aspect and I don't know if it's for a reason of save money or to make much easier the selection, they pretend you speak German (even if pilots should speak English).
I know that Lufthansa is the owner of Swiss now, but do not forget all the money that citizens paid to save it when it was bankrupt so not only germans save it but also the Franch and Italians regions in Switzerland did.

Then in the end you read in the newspapaers that they are short with pilots....(ah really?), that they have to cancel flights because of that (see the article about the flight to Sao Paolo in the internet), so I'm really frustrated about this, even if maybe the easiest way should be to go abroad and learn german but i give up and I changed my mind. Went to Skyguide selection that even if you don't speak german but another "Swiss language" like French or Italian, they accept you (as it should be)! Now i passed the selection and I should start the ATCO training asap. :)
Maybe Swiss should learn from them.... who knows!? :ugh:

They have a flight school right here in zurich in same building , and use Swiss as a carot to attract wanabes and promise them they will get a job. Same thing with Oxford Aviation and BA.

I don't believe they have a pilot shortage. When all airlines in the world struggle and kick pilots out or are simply not hiring! no exception means no job.
Still this company is unfair, they cost to us 15 billion of euro, the biggest loss since the 2nd worldwar and now make fun of people.

I don't know any swiss citizen who got a job at Swiss as a pilot.Only for germans I think, or Swiss German.I know several employes from SwissAir who left because it was too hard to work for the new managment.

I know a few guys in the french part, what they have left :"Flybaboo" still not sure if this company still exist (or bought by Darwin)and Darwin for the Swiss Italian, but they hire mainly Italian citizen because capitals are from Italia.
Switzerland is a dead pond if you are not part of the Swiss german Club apparently.

Anyway, I wouldn't be happy to fly for companies who use discrimination like: you are a Crossair, not a Swissair, oh well I got already other plans for next year!
Crossair was a great company and they hired lot of new guys even with 200 hours.
Crossair has been destroyed by Swiss, and gave no hope to the next generation of non swiss german pilots. It' s really sad how things have turn out these last 10 years in this cows country.

Just sent my CV on line to see what their answer would be. I knew already their answer in advance because Swiss German are stubborn and have a high nose attitude and deep inside them they hate us because we are better than them. ;)

https://mail.google.com/mail/images/cleardot.gif[email protected]

I agree with you that they act in not the correct way to the Swiss young pilots that have the dream to become pilots and can't because they are not germans. Anything against Germans, but just to be fair should be open for all the languages speak in Switzerland!

Anyway FlyBaboo was bought by Darwin, I know that Darwin is looking some pilots for SAAB2000 and Dash Q400 and they don't request any German ... or French or Italian, just English. :}

Full time employment

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• Reliable

I post you the requirments, don't know what kind of experience you have or type ratings. :E

I think as long we have these problems(age, race, color, religion, your look, sex) in europe. we go into a wall.

I am a true believer of human right, and "we the people": should all be the same.
A good company should not discriminate pople.Swiss Air is not a good company, never been.

as for darwin, no , i have no dash 8 or S2000, and they take italian pilots mainly. No swiss guys.
sorry swiss pilots, but it seems your country hate you!

Nothing changes...
 

Hahaha, the Swiss are at it again!

S.W.I.S.S. (So What It's Still Swissair) is also know as the*"Zurich flying club," and in order to join you have to be able to speak Swiss German with a ZRH accent. Even the French and Italian speaking Swiss minorities are treated like sh!t. :rolleyes:

Roughly 5 years ago they wrote me a letter asking me if I would consider joining them on the wonderful AVRO RJ. At that time I was rated on the Airbus with a few thousand hours on type, so just for fun of it I called them up and told them that I would only join on the Airbus. What ensued was an hilarious number of "errrrr's" and "ooooooh's" and "hmmmm's" from the person on the other side of the line. Bottom line: I could not join them on the Airbus despite being rated because I was "ex-Crossair." :p

Boyz, girlz, let's face it: the Swiss generally are simply a racist bunch! Unfortunately it's the (very nice!) exceptions that confirm this rule! :\

@Robert Vesco

quote: the Swiss generally are simply a racist bunch!

This is simply not true...
we employ and have emploied many foreign pilots and treated them equally like the swiss colleagues also in difficult times...

I'm as well ex crossair and hate what happend in the past. But tell on an open forum that we are racist is simply not fair. I can not recall how many times I had to listen at the phone phrases like: "I'm sorry, but despite the fact you have the right rating and you speak the local language we can't hire you because our union dosn't want foreign pilots".... That happend when I applied in "civilized" countries like Italy, Portugal, Spain, ...

Sentenses like yours simply show your ignorance (and frustration?)

Fly safe

TOGA 10

@spoon

It's about language not nationality!

Nah nah
 

Do not include Portugal in this!:=

We do have a lot of foreign pilots here, don't know if we have Swiss ones. I'm aware of Germans, French, Brazilians and some more.

In TAP requirements you can see that there's only the need to speak Portuguese and JAA license. In other companies, sometimes it's just the JAA license.

We even got non-European pilots here.

And for us the Portuguese to get a job outside (or at least outside Europe) it is very, very hard.:ugh:

And by the way, who said that we were a civilized country?:cool::p

So what's wrong to speak German at swiss?

Hi TOGA,

I really don't agree with @Robert Vesco, i'm Swiss but I don't think that we are:

quote: the Swiss generally are simply a racist bunch!

My problem with Swiss is that they only accept people who speak fluent German (or at least B2 level), i'm from Ticino and I think that like me many "ticinesi" or "romand" would like to work for their national airline, but if you dont speak you can't even send your application!! I speak Italian, French, English, Spanish and Portuguese but it seems not enough!
Swiss Airline is racist in this aspect and this can not be compare to any other airline like TAP, Alitalia or Lufthansa.
TAP ask for Portuguese, Alitalia for Italian and Lufhtnasa for German and I completly agree with them, I do not complaine about it or treat them like racist because they ONLY ask for their national language but in Switzerland we have three official languages so at least if you speak one or two correctly why can't be take into consideration for being a Swiss pilot! That's absurd and complety wrong and unfair! := Don't you agree?!:}

when I was 36, they told me they had no job and asked me to apply a year later,ok, no problem.

a year later, I reapplied and the answer was : -you are too old!

what a bunch of swiss fags, too old at 37. these b... they knew it...! really a stincky company, we call them Airluft. I will resign my swiss citizenship, and leave this country of swisstoto forever If I could!

when they receive your CV, they look if you are a true swiss german or a bosh or austrian (Austria is allright as Hitler was from Austria), if not they find a way to put your down, morally.you name must be Villiger, Zimmerman,Schnell or Archloch!
if your name is Mohamed,Enrico Matias or Steve Austin, just forget!

Swiss still hate the frenchies or the swiss french (the welsch) and the italian( and the Ticinese) as they have kicked the bosh' ass with US ,Canad and Africa in 1945 in Normandy, this is why they can not stand us.

I guess every swiss has been psychologically affected by swiss air and their irrespectuous behavior of "I know all", and its collapse in 2001 which had costed us 15 billion to the swiss Citizen.

Then a few years later it was the UBS bank, same type of Swiss-Bosh mentality. Pretentious and irresponsible when the big manager has put all the money of his clients in US subprimes.This disgusting fat fag now has left UBS with a golden parachute of several millions and live now in a muti million euro chalet and pay no tax, all paid by who? the Swiss citizen.

20 year ago , we got this madame Kopp affair. a politician lady in the police department, who her husband was trafficking with internationaly drug cartels and was never caught, guess why?,...when he and she was finally found, she was asked to leave and she receive now 30'000 swiss francs a month for her retirement.I don't know about mister Kopp, probably working at Swiss. :)


Even some Ex swiss air employees have written a book about their job at swiss air.
30'000 CHF monthly salary, 5 stars hotel, free first class staff travel,.. they can go to hell now.!

did you know pilot women were not allowed in a swiss air cockpit.How disgusting is that?
did you know women didn't have the right to vote until 1977 or even talk about politic?

Yes, It's really a retarded country.

That is utter rubbish, at least as far as Italy is concerned. Beside the fact that just a minority of pilots are properly represented by a union (i.e. Alitalia), the vast majority of Italian operators either don't have one (so there is way you can have that "justification") or have no problems to hire expats even if just through a contractor. The only requirement (like it SHOULD be everywhere else) is to speak English to an ICAO level.

PZ :hmm:

Usualguy, what a load of BS

You can, nobody can force you to live there and nobody can force you to keep your Swiss citizienship.

You talk the talk, can you walk the walk?

yes I know, where can I go with no nationality?.

Swiss people are doomed, because we have these swiss german everywhere.Personally I hate them with a few exceptions of course.I am a good guy and I don't like xenophobism or racism ( I am black by the way).

I have a swiss italian friend, he worked in Lausanne and Zurich, and he told me me he hated the swiss germans.He liked Lausanne and Geneva.

Nice rant, but you won't act, usualguy, because you act like a lil' boy stamping your feet :{ , you are prob getting free cheese in Schwyz and it will be just more of your usual BS rant in your next post .... very entertaining, keep it up, I'm getting the popcorn :rolleyes:

Congrats, Hate is his solution.

Haha, a 37-year-old grown man with the attitude and the language skills of someone attending kindergarten.
And why exactly, dear usualguy, should someone trust you with anything more complex/expensive than a tricycle? Please elaborate, I'm genuinely interested and will also make a serious effort to understand your incoherent waffle.

Not just that. Check the Nordic Forum, Air Baltic's tread: he claims he has been SELECTED for the A320-fleet. Totally irrelevant that BT doesn't operate the type... :E

This guy is either mentally disturbed or just a wind-up with lot of time in his hands. People seriously interested in a career in aviation should just ignore him and his rants.

to rbaiapinto: I wasn't referring to TAP, I had this experience with an other company operating EMB-145. But I eventually got a job with an other portuguese operator and I still have a lot of portuguese friends even after I left. A bunch of very good guys!!!:ok:

to spoon84: guarda che sono ticinese anch'io ma non ho nessun problema con i nostri colleghi d'otralpe... se il tuo unico problema è la lingua perché non ti fai un bel soggiorno all'estero e ti fai sto benedetto b2? Poi guarda che il tedesco è richiesto da quando è la lufthansa a dettar legge. Prima era si richiesto, ma a livello colloquiale, e veniva valutato durante l'interview e non c'era bisogno di nessun certificato linguistico.

to usualguy: if you hate this country so much and Swiss/Swissair why did you apply the first place.
I also missed by few month the Lufthansa 32 age requirement, but I don't call them a bunch of racist...

to papazulu: la frase: "mi dispiace, vorrei proprio tenerti in considerazione visto che possiedi il type rating giusto e parli la lingua, ma il nostro sindacato vuole solo piloti italiani.." me la sono sentita dire dall'allora capo flotta ali-express ATR... Però è vero, in Italia ci sono un mucchio di piloti di altre nazionalità e non è certo facile trovare un lavoro... Però guarda che è cosi anche da noi in Svizzera, e mi capita di volare con piacere con qualche collega italiano (almeno non devo parlare tedesco per una volta;)). Quindi non chiamarmi ballista, ok:ok:

I don't agree with some of the requirements Swiss is asking, but it's everyone choice to make his own rules, and It's thier own fault if they can't find enough people to fly their aircraft. But calling swiss people racist isn't really fair.

Ciao a tutti and fair winds to all of you!

I did not call you a liar. The above sounds like there is NO WAY you can get a job in Italy if you cannot speak the language to a native level or you are a foreign. This is simply not the case because with most operators there is hardly a union to refer to (unless you are flying or want to fly for Alitalia and its likes, as you unfortunately witnessed) or because they are happy to hire expats either using contractors or directly provided they have the right experience. The way you put meant you got rejected every other day by unions. Hope it is clearer now.

Having said that I have no problems admitting that this industry in the Belpaese is a royal :mad:

I'm sorry PZ. You're right. You didn't call me liar. You just said is rubbish what I'm saying. In fact you're technically correct:}

No hard feelings. Just don't like the fact that when somethings happens in Switzerland we're racist. When the same happens elsewhere is just normal...

Ciao.

What SWISS stands for?

So What Is Still Swissair?!?!?!?
:ok:

So only Germans can become Swiss pilots? Wow.

And then there is the usual IDIOT coming along with 'Uber Alles'.

This thread must be the newest entry in the 'most bull!!!! in a short time' contest...

No need to be German.

But being of German mother tongue sure helps a lot, as it has always been(read Swissair/Crossair);)

You need German for Lufthansa

You need German for Austrian

You need French for Air France

You need Italian for Alitalia

You need Greek for Aegean

You need Polish for LOT.


If you don't speak German, you won't fly Swiss. What's the +#~&$ problem?! :ugh:

Maybe the fact that Switzerland( unlike Germany, France, Greece,etc). is a 3(4) official languages country?

And all language regions helped(money) save Swiss?

Here in Tap we have belgium, spanish and an italian pilot, but they all speek portuguese.

flydive1,

In that case, maybe they should ask for fluency in all three languages, maybe even Romansch as well?

Then who will be complaining?

Maybe they are all important, but German is the most widely-spoken language in Switzerland.

hello,

Swiss survived because they took Crossair. Without Crossair and the swiss money, SWISS wouldn't exist

100% of swiss advertisings are published with age requirment and most are limited at 40 yo.Just take any swiss newspaper, it' s all "max 39", "max 29",...

Maybe they should just require English.

Without excluding 30% of the population, or requiring them to be fluent in a third language

I did not hear them complain when they got part of the money that saved them from the non German speaking part of the population.

Tedious tedious tedious, when inhabitants of European countries that can't just choose one language start to get uppity about the ones who speak the other one. Incredible really, for example, the animosity between Walloon/Flamand in a tiny country like Belgium , the 3 divisions in Suisse, & indeed the knumbskulls in Spain where I am living that cannot read what it says on their passport & insist they are Catalan when asked their nationality.
Being Scottish I have long ago got my head around the fact that I am a citizen of the United Kingdom, yes I will state I am not English if asked, but never query my nationality as British, jeez, you should be able to read what is on the cover of your passport at least.
I reckon if you live in a country where there are more than 1 official languages & choose not to learn one of them, you cannot complain if discriminated against by the "other side".
People, regretably, get a bit sensitive about these things & side with their "own".
The solution perhaps is to open your mind & your eyes & see beyond the boundaries/frontiers. The most relevant of those are in your own mind, not drawn on a map. If you are so preoccupied with some inter-swiss divide, how much of the big world outside are you appreciating/partaking of.
A bit sad & small minded IMHO.

I'm sorry flydive1, but captplaystation is correct. What language do you speak? French? Italian? What if Swiss changed the criteria to only that language? Would you then complain that they were not giving the German-speakers enough of a fair chance?

You also seem to forget that Swiss is owned by a German company. It is not a nationalised airline any more, it is a private company and they can hire whoever they wish with whatever language skills they choose. You are not owed an interview with them just because you are Swiss.

Dear Captplaystation and African Dude, I speak Italian, French, German, English and Spanish, lived and worked for periods of time in Europe, Middle East and North America and I never applied to Swiss.
Yes, I can read the cover of my passport, which is written in 5 languages, by the way.
If you consider me a a sad and small minded person because I do not like useless discrimination, well so be it.

If Swiss changed their requirement to Italian or French I would complain about it too.

Yes, Swiss is now owned by Lufthansa, but that discrimination was always in place even before the take over.
Yes, is a private company, but they did not have any problem to ask for state help and money to survive, money that came from all regions of Switzerland, at that time they did not have any problem at selling themselves as "THE SWISS AIRLINE", and they sure not asked for only "German Francs"

Best regards, your tedious, sad and small minded friend;)

Swiss either have to ask for all languages or a selection of them. What is it that you want precisely?

This is how it sounds from what you have written: it sounds like you're annoyed that you personally funded them with non-German Swiss Francs (which by the way are identical to the German variety) in the belief that in doing so Swiss would come to a moral epiphany based only on your understanding of the term discrimination. Or have we all misunderstood you? What is it that you actually want?

Or none of them, just English as all the pilot would have to speak it anyway and it would not create any discrimination.

I do not want anything, just find that discriminating 1/3 of the population is wrong.
I do not feel I'm owned an interview with them and I never applied and never will(just not interested in airline flying), so the thing does not touch me personally.

I did not fund them personally, but through my tax, and I sure did not do it expecting them to change their policy.
(thanks for pointing out that the German Swiss francs are identical to the non German one, you learn something new everyday).

Again, I find the discrimination policy of Swiss(Swissair) wrong and just expressing my opinion here as you are expressing yours, as is customary on forums.

You like discrimination based on language or other, I don't, just different points of view.

I won't change your opinion and you won't change mine(and I won't change Swiss policy)