Trouble is most humans will do more to avoid pain than to gain pleasure.

Many are stuck in the "comfort-zone", which actually isn't a comfort zone at all.

Suggest you start dreaming again! Here's my favourite self-development question:-

"What would you choose to do if you knew you could not fail?". Suggest you spend some time on this and write the answers down. My belief is that whatever your answer to this question is you are capable of doing.

Also, how about getting some life coaching?

ZFT

Prey tell, and just what the hell is wrong with being 'North of Watford'?

Ayn Rand was right
 

Right up to this point:And the suggestion is that we are to draw no distinction between Marie Curie, Alexander Fleming, and some bloke who buys some stuff cheap and sells it expensive.
(Grammatically blunted for impact).

Saddest Aviator
Keep us posted as to what new career you choose, but I'll bet a pound to a penny that you do not quit.The reason? We all chose this career because we love flying. We still love flying but the bull !!!! really has taken its toll on us. Try and put all the crap into one compartment of your brain and then the other parts of your brain will love flying again. One trick is to never complain and never moan, not even to your colleagues, that really upsets the bull !!!!ters. Just do your job in the most competent and professional manner you can; smile at the security staff and secretly be grateful you do not have to do their job.Offer to do a day a month in the ops office to see the other side of the coin, I promise you that will be a revelation!! When you get a 20 year old space cadet next to you, teach him some old tricks. I remember when I was 20 and sat next to the guys who had flown to Berlin. I wsh I had respected them more rather than keeping to my own agenda.
Good Luck.

hawker750

Excellent post! I agree with everything you write!

Hawker 750 has it spot on. I moan about this and that, but still giggle like a girl when i fly over fields i visited when i was hour building etc.

I do agree with you hawker750,as long as the bull !!!!ters leave you a lone. You have reminded me of these guys who flown in to Berlin ,I have flown with some of these old boys , they are not many like them now unfortunately .:ok:

You are suffering from stress and as such should not be on the flight deck of a public transport aircraft. Take time off, get professional help and get better.Good luck.

I went head-to-head with a speeding truck and had 18 months off. Fan-bloody-tastic. Felt great after about 12 months and had 6 months summer leave for free. Lost a lot of income and a command course but still live well within my means.
Have you thought of asking for a year off? Maybe the employer would bite your hand off? Also, go to night school for a completely different career path or become a day-off instructor in something. I now teach, plus I have a very handy tech skill that earns me some extra cash. Most fulfilling.

After 40 odd years of flying I can understand the sentiments expressed on this thread and find the level of empathy quite touching. However once locked into this business it is very hard to get out , many have tried but few succeed and then often return years later .Pilots do not make great businessmen - too naive. Ask anyone who has lost their licence how it feels to be unable to fly , and the relief when it is regained.
Flying commercially still offers reasonable remuneration , a fun day out (if you make it one) and no real problems to take home . Ignore the management messages and the doomsters on this website , live for the day. (OK 3am sucks)

So what to do ? Well start by taking 3 months out ill health, sounds like you need a break , stop drinking , get some exercise. When you return to work (with a sun tan and leadened heart at the prospect of another 20 years in the flight deck) , fill out a right to request flexible working form , obtainable from the HR dept. This assumes dependent kids under 17 , or rustle up an elderly demented relative or unwell spouse. If non of the above are readily available then no problem, you could try a "request part time" , which would eventually be granted.

Work 50% ,allowing you to look at alternative employment , at least you will have regained a degree of control of your life , which is probably the underlying issue.

For the vast majority of the workforce our jobs are from time to time boring , pointless, we are undervalued , exploited , unrecognised , the bigger the company the worse it gets .
Last of all be grateful in the current economic climate that you are still employed and as you know, I'm sure, aviation can suffer abrupt and unexpected reversals. Better to have income than a cardboard box.
Good luck!

Hi Craggs, I'm well thanks!

And you'll be glad to know it's now The Times instead of The Daily Mail :ok:

"Have a break, have a Kit-Kat"
 

Rather, I'd say:

"Have a break, have some unpaid leave"

The Swiss call it "UBO".
Colleagues in their late 30s, early 40s have done 3 months unpaid leave learning Japanese in Japan, skiing in Siberia or walking across the Alps.

They've all come back mentally and physically refreshed.
It's harder to organise if you're married with kids, but it can be done.

I'm glad someone brought some perspective to this thread!!!!!!!

Followed by No matter how 'bad' flying an aluminium cigar tube may seem - just try spending 8 hours a day in an office......................

Get a grip man. Once you pushback you're your own boss. Slipping the surly bonds of Earth is still (or was) a pleasure for me.... Climbing sunwards beats office gossip and politics.... Chasing the shouting winds beats preparing a PowerPoint or Word document.

Trust me on this:hmm::hmm:

As wise council once said to me .... "only fight the battles you can win" . No matter where you are in the World you will not change the system that has led to your deep despair. To varying degrees our good nature and professionalism are taken advantage of as commercial pilots, by people who neither understand the role and who do not live/work to the same standards.

I freely admit I am a "one trick pony" (maybe 2 with helicopters), as this is what I am trained to do. I try ( with varying degrees of success, due to my less than "easy" nature sometimes) to ..

1. Ignore/ laugh off things that make you angry/ frustrated at work ..
2. Always, always do your job to the very best of your ability (including commercially) for your own esteem and self respect.
3. Concentrate on pleasures and rewards outside the cockpit, and do not dwell on work issues. There will still be an aircraft fueled, catered and serviceable ready for your attention when you next check in .....

Good Luck ....

I.Duke

A Foul and Pestilent Congregation of Vapours
 

Many Ryanair pilots especially Brookfield pilots have also had enough. Recent developments appear to have been the straw that has broken the camels back. Old members are returning and new guys are taking an interest in their future.

See and discuss what is happening at REPAweb.org

I hate these pilots who pay to work.500h line training,..
it s with pilots like them, we have problems.
many guys send me their CV asking me how much it cost to work!:{

seems to me there is less and less pilots visiting this website.
are pilot runing away from this profession? it would be a good thing to see people back for flying for passion instead of these teenage monkeys who think to come for the quick dream of 100'000$ yearly cash!

you will never make any money in this profession, just forget it!training is nowadays too expensive, and getting a good paid job (no LCC BS)can take over 20 years without any guaranty of success.

this profesion has no futur if we continue on this track (P2F)and the first one who will suffer are the pilots, then the flight schools and at the end the airlines.

i do agree, It seems flying is rich people game mostley.
Pay thousands of ££££ to be pilot then further TR with hours, it sucks.
I hat this indrustry.
For those who want to learn think before you start training. have unlimmited cash:O and good links, thats all. i hat it every time I think about it.:bored:

I hope someone fix this !!!!:bored:

Good Call Captain:ok:
My better nature forces me to merely suggest more than a few weeks of sabbatical for reflection!!
Apologies if your post is a wind-up; if so, "fair cop" took the bait.
If not ..... Sheeesh:confused:

I would love to have more than a few weeks/one month but I will struggle to achieve that! However a few weeks is better than nothing and I intend to make the most of every minute of it! :)

Like Slasher mentioned earlier get into a real aircraft, not a button pushing machine and fly by the seat of your pants, use your brain and common sense, get back to your roots of flying.... a sailplane course would be even better.

That will help balance why you started this gig in the first place.

Failing that, open up a whorehouse near a major airport they'll be plenty of punters there, but don't eat the profits, there's a good man !!!

We need a law like in the States, prohibiding crooks entering this market selling souls to LCC.
send your CV to the CAA/EASA, offer them money(50'000 euro for 6 months) for a desk job.The gangraine will reach every branches of this profession, believe me.

let me know if you need a piano player!

Hi, I agree with recent posters about taking a little time off. I worked for a bunch of :mad: for four years 400 miles away from home having been promised the universe but just ended up swallowing :mad:.

Three months away from flying and a new job and I am starting to enjoy the world of aviation again.

Sure there is BS to deal with but there isn't a job anywhere that doesn't.

Security: Just grin and bear it.
Management: They are mostly insulated from the real world and lose touch with reality, and contact should be avoided at all cost!
SOP's: They are the companies toys and operated as per the instructions on the tin.
And finally, remember that this is a job not some sort of calling! But if you enjoy it then all the better.

Good luck.

Ps I nearly jacked it all in last year after a faux pas that wasn't looked at in a practical manner by management. But I had been slagging them off for 2 years so that might not have helped :}

Why oh why does every "aviator" aspire to be a Commercial Airline Pilot? It's not "flying" - it's driving a boring old bus!

There is no excitement, boring anti-social schedules, constant arguments over accomodation/meals/fuel & landing charge problems/the air steward poof trying it on, etc. etc.

You can't FLY the plane. There are too many rules/regulations. There is more exictement to be had in a hang glider. And with one of those you don't have the constant flight checks...

However, the reasoning that you all went through before embarking on the career you all seem to despise is:

1. A ridiculously high salary for what is in effect a "bus driver".
2. The ability to say "I'm an airline Captain" whenever possible.
3. Travel to exotic places (unless you do short haul) - but then you realised that you just fell into a hotel bed before crewing the next A/C home & saw nothing of the country....
4. S******G the Stewardesses, until you realised that most were married & your only chance was with 20 year old Gary from Essex.

Just be thankful that you have a (very) well paid job that pays your bills & enables you to think nothing of going to the pub or eating out. The majority of people in the UK this year can't afford those luxuries (me included).

I have absolutely no sympathy for the OP. In his mental state he should not be allowed to fly & possibly endanger hundreds of lives.

Before anyone rises to the bait set by SAMXXV go back and read his other posts.

I found a very disenchanted individual, huge chip on the shoulder, possibly failed aircrew, as he gives the impression he hates them!

Is it just us gays you don't like or do you refer to black people by similar derogatory language? Asians perhaps? How are you with women? Get angry at those management types that make unreasonable demands about accomodating your colleague's differences? Perhaps I'm being all silly and modern again.

You're endangering my ears not my life.

1. True: I earn shedloads. Suck it up poor boy.
2. True. Better than having to call yourself a Looser.
3. True: I get plenty of time down route. I travel to Exotic places, and see plenty.
4. True: Plenty of shagging the Stewardesses. The married ones are the best, and the most enthusiastic.

The truth hurts poor boy.

SA

I understand your feeling. Getting out of aviation is very hard. I was also considering that. I have a bachelor degree but it is absolutely useless since i don't have any experience. Sometimes it is harder to see what you have actually, rather what you don't have. I discovered that no matter what you do in life, you always have to pay a price. So what is the price you want to pay to change your life??
Have you considered freelance flying? You can fly and you determine when to fly. And in the meantime doing else a part time job? A part time job where you invest in people instead of things?

Perhaps thought about walking to Santiago del compostella? It seems a lifetime experience

I hope you can find a solution.
All the best for you.

I have a few job offers which won't start for a while, I am having a couple of months away from flying. I am completely bored/dis-illusioned with it. I am going to relax, not set the alarm for 0400hrs and find something peaceful to do and until my new job starts.

Can I afford to do that? Not really but life is short and I don't wish to become a miserable short tempered soul who is no fun to be around.

Life is so preciously short it's ridiculous, you have got to make the most of your time here.

L337, to quote you:

"1. True: I earn shedloads. Suck it up poor boy.
2. True. Better than having to call yourself a Looser.
3. True: I get plenty of time down route. I travel to Exotic places, and see plenty.
4. True: Plenty of shagging the Stewardesses. The married ones are the best, and the most enthusiastic.

The truth hurts poor boy."

After I left the RAF in 1997 I earned "shedloads" - for a limited period of time working in Bosnia/Serbia. That enabled me to retire at the age of 40. I have not the need to ever work again. I think that you will find that ,in your opinion, I am a loser - not a looser.

If, as you brag, you have had many "married" stewardesses, then I think that your lifespan will have been somewhat shortened when a husband clocks you...

The point that I was trying to make was that there is no comparison between earnings/life satisfaction/EGO trip & quality of life if you are a slave to your employer. You are totally expendable to your employer. For every sacked ATPL pilot there are 10's - if not 100's ready to take your job.

Ask any ex-FJ pilot about his job-satisfaction after spending loads of money & "aspiring" to an airline second seat. After a year they are bored, pissed off with "regulations" & realise that they wasted their money.

There is no excitement about going to work. Most economy airlines pay very little considering their demands on your family life & you hardly "fly" the airplane.

I am NOT a (qualified) pilot, PPL or otherwise, however I will say that (unofficially) I spent a month with the Belgium Air Army in 1991 where a fantastic Sgt tought me to fly the 25 year old Allhoutte chopper to the point I could fly with the skids skimming the tops of the cornfields in the Ardennes, fly under power lines & skim along the Rhine, dodging the barges. I was also (while at RAF Wyton) briefly taught to fly the Canberra as a target against Lightnings from Binbrook. Then at Coningsby I (Unofficially) was briefly taught by 56 Sqn to fly the F3 Tornado (I was limited to 7.0G).

Parabellum: I am certainly not "failed aircrew". I have Vitiligo therefore the RAF refused me a flying medical category due to me not being able to serve in extremely sunny climates - as I burn immediately.

Your lot is a bloody good one. Don't denigrate it. You are paid extremely well for one of aviation's most boring jobs. But understand that there are hundreds of unemployed but expensively qualified pilots ready to take your job immediately. That's why the carriers will sack you at the drop of a hat for any indescrection.

Hello Walter!

'And if you believe any of that you will believe anything' I believe is the sentence you missed from your post sam.

Only the first sentence isn't complete and utter BS, as any real pilot will know. I don't doubt you have handled the controls of these aircraft, (though I do find it incredible), but you cannot say you can fly any aircraft until you have been trained to and taken it through it's complete envelope, several times and under check conditions, to the point you are cleared to fly it both solo and operationally. (I 'flew' a Shackleton Mk.I, from St. Eval, at the age of thirteen!).

''Hello Walter!''

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:ok:

This is true.

All you guys moaning about how hard done by you are, you try the 9-5 bullsh!t a ground job brings, for a lot less money.

If you don't like the job you are in, there's a very simple answer.

It would be great if we actually earned what the dumb public
think we earn, shag hosties as much as they think we do, and
merely push buttons like they believe we do.

If it were the case I certainly wouldn't be constantly bitching
and moaning on forums like this about what a damn dead-end
profession it has become.

You're located in Quahog huh? That explains why your rant
sounded like something from Seth McFarlane. :hmm:

Quote;

Then at Coningsby I (Unofficially) was briefly taught by 56 Sqn to fly the F3 Tornado (I was limited to 7.0G).

Isn't the limit 7.5g. So, by giving you unofficial lessons, you were only restricted by 0.5g? Why do we spend years and millions of pounds training? :ugh::mad:

SAMXXV,



Shame they didn't use "live" rounds. Guessing they didn't ever miss you as a target. They could have missed the Canberra, but they would have never missed an ego the size you have.

SAM XXV

If you are not a qualified pilot then you cant comment........ It is true the whole industry has changed. you are treated like s..............t unless you are lucky to work for a National Carrier. And as for 100s of qualified pilots I think not. Thats the reason we are being treated this way as this is becoming such a lousy occuptation that nobody wants to be a pilot anymore, and who can blame them. Stick to what you know Sam .......dont speculate on what you dont:=