See what you kids have brought this industry to?

Why should Vueling lose FOs quick? It's not their fault...as long as there are takers.

And to clear things up: it's not pay to fly-rather pay to ride. Other than the uniform and the bigger windows, there's not much difference between the pax in the back!

"You kids"? Get a grip of yourself.
:ugh:

Has anybody made the numbers?

16,000 euros from the "applicant" to the airline

approx 1,500 euros a month during, say 6 months?: 9,000 euros.

And this is being optimistic.

This "program" is not a hiring process, it is an undercover line training package.

I really hope VLG goes bankrupt soon. I feel no solidarity with the pilots who allowed, with their signature, what is happening now.

I sincerelly hope Ryan and EZY eat them up.

I heared from a source in Spain that the unions allowed this because the captains were promised a slight pay rise if they accepted this deal for first officers. Can somebody with inside information confirm this. Maybe Ryanair and Easyjet pilots have to start blocking Vuelings radio calls every time they read back their clearance or flight level as I have witnessed some Spanish airlines doing now with Easy or Ryan.

From one of your passengers.

Quote:

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Please, in english so that everybody knows the real situation/news in Spain. If passengers knew....http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/pukey.gif

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The passengers who read this DO know. Either Castellano or English will do for me thanks. I recently flew BIO to AGP with Vueling and it was an IB codeshare so are Iberia in cahoots with dodgy practices?

Maybe not :=

superced
So maybe the grass is greener at the Orange order...................:\

Collective Bargaining Agreement
 

Please do not compare Ryanair to Vueling as it quite different.

For you passengers reading this your safety flying on Vueling will not be affected this is a debate between pilots. OK ? Vueling is currently safe and many good people

In fact Vuelings flight data monitoring program and SMS, SRS system is the best in Spain.

The level 6 Co-pilots will make between 1800 and 2,000 Euros as they will fly.
Yes I do not like it all, yes its crap and it´s not acceptable. None has yet been contracted.

The best thing is do not apply to Vueling until they have gotten rid of this, if you are not Spanish it will be difficult anyway.

All pilots and Experienced FO´s please do accept or apply for this insult.


I understand according to a insider tha there is a verbal agreement and e-mail Vueling to also hire A320 experienced FO´s who will come in at a higher pay scale. ( See the written statement by CEO Alex Cruz below ) As verbal agreements mean nothing these days. This insider has informed me that if the company does not respect this and probably will not., then there will be problems with the union and action would be taken. It´s not over until the fat lady sings.

Personally I find it sickening that there are A-320 experienced Spanish FO´s working overseas who will not come or come back to Vueling because of this poor pay. Does this affect the standard at Vueling yes. This is poor management by Vueling´s COO. Will Vueling get the best people, no, will this affect flight safety standards ? It has damaged Vuelings reputation thats for sure.:ugh:

Vueling´s COO Luis Gallego does not understand at all how experienced pilots affects Flight Safety and increase the value of a company
If someons could post the link to Valuejet and other examples of low cost accidnet. Amazing since he is the post holder

Will a Vueling TRE- TRI sign off on his license a cadet who is sub standard ?
Vueling has a number of experienced and competent instructors who will make sure only competent FO´s get through the training process.
No. But if they do all Vueling Captains should ( and would I hope ) then write reports denouncing this.Believe meVueling has a lot of experienced Captains who would not accept a sub -par cadet.

A collective agreement has to be taken in it´s whole context, these new hire low paid co-pilot is part of a wider agreement in which 70% of the pilots in the Sepla union ( the majority ) voted in favor

In the collective agreement there are many improvements such as 12 days off per month, vacations paid ( that were not ), sick leave pay, loss of licences and insurance for all the Clickair

It was negotiated in the collective agreement so that existing pilots within Vueling would get increases. Existing co-pilots pilots from Ex-Clickair received a pay increase of 15 to 20% and the experienced ones remains are 100% of the fleet now. Ex-Vueling Captains also about a 10% increase.

If you do not know what you are writing about please do not post false information

Propaganda E-mail from Vueling CEO Alex Cruz. ( Translate it you like )

Nivel 6
La categoría de entrada de los First Officers es el nivel 6.
Este nivel, con una producción estimada de 850 horas bloque anuales y una retención media, corresponde a un salario superior a los 2.000€ netos mensuales y está principalmente destinado a personas de nueva incorporación con baja experiencia que quieran iniciar su actividad profesional en Vueling (que a su vez, para los que no dispongan de habilitación de tipo del 320, les brindará la oportunidad de acceder a la misma a unos precios más competitivos que lo que podrían encontrar por su cuenta), como hemos hecho en el pasado tanto en la antigua Vueling como en Clickair, y que ha permitido que muchos de vosotros os hayáis podido incorporar a la compañía.
Si por necesidades de crecimiento superior al previsto, que esperemos así suceda con la firma del Convenio, la empresa necesitara contratar First Officers de alta experiencia, se considerará la incorporación de dichas personas a nivel superior al nivel 6.
Tened en cuenta que la creación de este nivel es lo que permitirá a Vueling asumir los fuertes costes que supone la progresión acelerada a nivel I de los FOs tanto provenientes de la antigua Vueling (a la mayoría les quedaban aun años para alcanzarlo) y la posibilidad de extender dicha progresión a los FOs procedentes de Clickair. Además hemos podido mejorar el nivel I actual con una paga de beneficios ligada a los resultados económicos de la empresa.¨"

So Jimmy Hoffa Rocks, do you mean that Ryanair is not safe than?
I would be indeed not wise to compare Vueling with Ryanair because Ryanair is a big airline that makes a profit and pays his pilots a descend wage (yes even his First Officers) while Vueling is a loss making small airline which pays his first officers a wage that comes close to slavery. Please stop with being so arrogant and thinking that you are so much better than Ryanair and Easyjet because you are not.

Ryanair contract pilots
 

You are wrong and are not informed at all. Vueling is forecast to make 60 Million Euros and it has stayed smaller with what 35 A-320 to make a profit. Also Vueling has Iberia maintenance and making additional extra money for Iberia there and in handling.

Actually Easyjet is much better than Vueling from what I know. I have good things about the Easyjet training and Safety department. Know pilots at Ryanair and the many flight attendants that come from Ryanair to Vueling have a decent standard


Uniform perhaps you have a reading disability, so I will write it again.

" Please do not compare Ryanair to Vueling as it quite different"

Never said Ryanair not safe in the last post did not get into it. Never said Vueling was better but different. Ok ? Culture different. For example Ryanair has a " I hate Ryanair" webpage. So tell me uniform do you agree with the statements made by O´Leary that co-pilots not necessary ?

Ryanair pilots get paid well but they are not contributing to the seguridad social system in Spain. In Spain all workers pay into the hospital system and contribute to the healthcare system except Ryanair pilots. ( Unless they have done their autonomo papers correctly ) Vueling has a collective agreement and a contract Ryanair pilot can get fired anytime. Or not ? Look at all the anti Ryanair threads on pprune.

YouTube - Vueling Together


:}

Gentlemen, the main Trade Union in Spain S.E.P.L.A (Sindicato Español de Pilotos de Líneas Aéreas)...

Javier Martinez de Velasco, President of SEPLA, questions that to get a job, the employee must pay for their education. And much more if there is no guarantee the job for which they are aspiring. "No doubt this is an irregular system of revenue for the airline. Recruitment has zero cost, and above you get a benefit of pilot training."

Low wages affect the pilot twice over cadet. On the one hand, the worker can not recover the amount paid for the type rating. Moreover, "with such low wages pilot living is unstable conditions, which will be not be in good flying conditions. Not that ensure flight safety, but simply the level of low security. On the other hand do not forget that it is wrong to pay a professional whose hands many lives depend. "

Other companies have taken advantage of the current situation, charging for jobs that require training, such as SWIFT or Ryanair. The Irish company offers training in a parallel company in which you must pay to obtain the type rating. After the pilot enters a job and Ryanair offers part-time job. "A month and another month contract you do not ... if you load too much fuel or you've been on sick leave program may not have next month."

"The lack of job stability and income security concerns"

Now an important part of Ryanair pilots are "sole proprietors" based in Ireland. It so happens that if you get ill and do not you go to flight hypothetically could report you for breach of contract ... All this affects the security, no doubt, since lack job stability, lack stable income and because the work the pilot is under other than safety parameters, such as industrial or economic aspect

Article from La Vanguardia
 

Compañías 'low cost', empleo 'low cost'

If someone would like to translate this article from La Vanguardia

En los próximos meses, Vueling afronta un plan de expansión con la compra de seis aviones, lo que supondrá la contratación de entre 40 y 70 pilotos, según los cálculos del Sepla

La sección del Sepla de Vueling denuncia que las condiciones de contratación de los nuevos pilotos de la compañía son abusivas, a pesar de haber ratificado el primer convenio de la aerolínea, hace apenas cuatro meses. "Desde el Sepla consideramos que el nivel 6 de contratación de copilotos cadetes es abusivo, sobre todo en las condiciones actuales, cuando la compañía está ganando dinero", argumenta el representante del Sepla Xavier Franco. El nivel que regula la contratación de los nuevos pilotos fija un salario base de 850 euros (que sumando las 80 horas mensuales de media queda en unos 2.000 euros). Un salario que en caso de baja es menos que mileurista.


MÁS INFORMACIÓN

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En los próximos meses, Vueling afronta un plan de expansión con la compra de seis aviones, lo que supondrá la contratación de entre 40 y 70 pilotos, según los cálculos del Sepla. Actualmente la compañía cuenta con 370 pilotos, tras haber reducido su plantilla en unos 40 en el proceso de reestructuración tras la fusión de Vueling y Clickair. "Algunos de estos pilotos volverán a ser contratados, pero con unas condiciones mucho peores que las que tenían antes, incluso con más experiencia", lamentan desde el Sepla.

"Estamos en una fase del mercado muy competitiva, en la que nos enfrentamos a compañías de costes muy ajustados como Easyjet y Ryanair, y necesitamos un marco que nos dé estabilidad ynos permita seguir creciendo", aseguran fuentes de la compañía, que no entienden cómo los pilotos intentan renegociar un convenio que ni siquiera se ha empezado a aplicar, puesto que en los últimos cuatro meses "no se ha contratado ningún piloto". "Ellos firmaron el convenio", repiten. La compañía que preside Josep Piqué no contó con un convenio para sus pilotos que, hasta el pasado mes de julio, prácticamente no tenían representación sindical. Hoy, unos 300 de los 370 pilotos pertenecen al Sepla. Fuentes próximas a la cúpula de la compañía aseguran que la creación de este nivel 6 es necesaria para poder asumir los salarios de los comandantes que en breve accederán al nivel 1, la máxima categoría.

"Sí firmamos el convenio, que mejora notablemente nuestras condiciones, pero el nivel 6 degrada la profesión y sólo lo firmamos porque desde la compañía nos garantizaron que no sería para todas las nuevas contrataciones; pero ahora vemos cuáles son sus verdaderas intenciones", defiende Franco. "No nos quejamos del salario, sino de que todas las contrataciones nuevas se harán por esta vía, incluso para pilotos con años de experiencia, y son unas condiciones precarias", aseguran. La condición de los pilotos cadetes se prolonga por dos años, un plazo que para los representantes del Sepla es demasiado alto en la mayoría de casos y que la compañía alega que son dos años de formación.

Para acceder a este nivel, los pilotos deben cursar unos estudios que cuestan sobre los 18.000 euros y que les permite el acceso a la bolsa de trabajo pero no les asegura una plaza. Los pilotos del Sepla quieren que la compañía elimine el polémico nivel 6. "Creemos que es una vía de acceso muy restrictiva, a nuestro entender lo razonable sería fijar las condiciones de entrada en un nivel 4, que supone entre un 25% y un 30% de incremento del salario base respecto del nivel 6", añade Franco. Su objetivo es sentarse a negociar con la empresa, pero si Vueling no accede a modificar el artículo, se plantean incluso movilizaciones o llegar a impugnar el convenio

<<In the coming months, Vueling facing an expansion plan with the purchase of six aircraft, which will require the hiring of 40 to 70 pilots, according to estimates of SEPLA>>

Sepla section Vueling complaint that the conditions of hiring new pilots for the company are abusive, despite having ratified the first agreement of the airline, just four months ago. "From the Sepla believe that the recruitment level 6 co-pilot cadets is unfair, especially in current conditions, when the company is making money", argues the representative of sepla Xavier Franco.The level that regulates the hiring of new pilots set a base salary of 850 euros (that adding the 80 hours per month on average is at about 2,000 euros). A salary in the event of withdrawal is less than mileurista.


MORE INFORMATION


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• Print Edition: In the Mood Irish Ryanair


In the coming months, Vueling facing an expansion plan with the purchase of six aircraft, which will require the hiring of 40 to 70 pilots, according to estimates of SEPLA. The company currently has 370 pilots, having reduced its workforce by about 40 in the process of restructuring following the merger of Vueling and Clickair. "Some of these will again be hired, but with much worse conditions than they were before, even with more experience," he lamented from Sepla.

"We are in a very competitive market phase, in which we are faced with tight cost airlines like Easyjet and Ryanair, and we need a framework that gives us stability and allow to continue growing," said company sources who do not understand how pilots trying to renegotiate an agreement that has not even begun to implement, since in the past four months "has not hired any pilots." "They signed the agreement," repeated. The company headed by Josep Piqué had an agreement for its pilots that, until last July, had almost no union representation. Today, some 300 of the 370 pilots belong to Sepla. Sources close to the top of the company say that the creation of this level 6 is necessary to carry out the salaries of the commanders who soon will enter the level 1, the top flight.

"If we sign the agreement, which greatly improves our conditions, but the level 6 degrades the profession and only signed for from the company assured us that it would be for all new hires, but now we see what their true intentions," argues Franco . "We do not complain about the salary, but that all new hires will be made this way, even for pilots with years of experience, and are precarious conditions," they say. The condition of the cadet pilots were extended for two years, a term for the representatives of SEPLA is too high in most cases and that the company claims that two years of training.

To enter this level, pilots must complete a study that cost about 18,000 euros and allows them access to job vacancies but assures them a place. Sepla pilots want the company to remove the controversial level 6. "We believe it is a very narrow path, we believe it would be reasonable to set the conditions for entry into a level 4, which represents between 25% and 30% increase on base salary Level 6," says Franco .
His goal is to sit down and negotiate with the company, but if Vueling no access to modify the article, it raises even challenging mobilisations or reach agreement

VUELING impose the law of silence under threat of dismissal.

While the airline Vueling launches its new wage policy for new pilots, is also covered their backs in case the employee representatives leaked internal documents: dismissal. Thus, in a section devoted to security and trade union as defined by the Company President Josep Piquet as "professional secrecy", the new collective bargaining agreement requires the company workers` representatives not to use the documents provided to them "outside the strict scope of the company and for different purposes which led to its delivery. "

This prohibition rests with the workers even after leaving the union activity and affects the materials classified as "inside information", and "especially to all those on which the point explicitly address confidential." The violation of this policy would "invariably" lack qualified as "very serious" and that the scale of the Company, is punishable by suspension without pay from 16 to 60 days, and dismissal.


Other favorable conditions

On the contrary, the conditions of the unions do not seem as negative in other sections. Thus, whether trade union officials or members of the Company, will have a credit of 40 hours per month for its activity, to be enjoyed by programming five days of activity per month.

At that time of eight hours per day, an enterprise that time to add them to your regular pay.

Also be accorded by a diet that union activity "international", which the scale is Vueling 85 euros a day (although they may reach 110 euros, the company did not specify). In addition, the agreement includes "variables" to the possibility that trade unionists are called by the company at a time which is not intended for labor representation.

Also, in case of "affairs", the company headed by former minister Jose Maria Aznar provides tickets, however, in-Vueling flights, their union representatives, but later clarified that "these bills will not count for any purpose until you remember the formula. "

If any professional pilot ,Spanish or otherwise is deliberately blocking another carrier's radio calls then they are a flight safety hazard,not worthy of being a professional pilot and a disgrace.