There is no holy grail any more, they're all sh#t

The time to join Virgin was 15 or so years ago when commands were relatively quick and you were high enough up the seniority to comfortably cushion yourself against 9/11 and what the industry is recovering from now. The new A330 fleet seems to be rather unpopular and again seniority would probably protect you from this new aircraft type. The unpopularity seems to stem from proposed route network which is not ideal if you are a commuter!

I don't work for VS but I have friends in VS and they say it is not bad yet not fantastic either. As large airlines go it seems to be 'middle of the road' in many respects.

Anyway, what might be the holy grail for me might be your worst nightmare and vice versa!!! ;)

Hopefully they ( ie HE ) learnt from their pathetic knee-jerk reaction to 9 / 11 , they lost a lot of good faith and many never came back , some good people included.
Even the dreaded Beardies nemesis, BA , did not lay off a single one.
Great company , successful Head Tosser , but ....??

Things may become potentially more difficult for VS with the BA/AA tie up. Some corners say they need to consolidate in order to prosper. I'm not sure what their current scenario/future predicaments will spell out for remaining flight crew and future recruitment, however I believe there are a number of guys who have an open invitation to return after the redundancies and layoffs within the last year or so.

Will VS grow any further? I'm not in a position to answer however many think they are now quite restricted. The A330 is a replacement for older A340s and 744s and I believe the A380 is now pie in the sky. News on the 787 has also been quiet.

It always appeared as one of the pinnacles, however a few posters here who have had first hand experience will offer an alternative opinion. Working within a potentially more difficult market may put the business under strain; which is never good for those employed.

Bigjarv - why do you want to know? Do you work for the 'Daily Mail'......

Maybe but some are an awful lot less sh#t than others.

I was with VS for nearly 7 years, but took my redundancy after the 9/11 fiasco, faced with the prospect of 20 years flying the same routes on the same aeroplane. I am often asked by colleagues ... is it a good company ? The answer is yes, but only when compared with the alternatives. It is quite secure, with a good contractual package but it is not the company it was (but then no company is ...). My friends who still work there do not like it anymore ... mainly for the monotony and lack of respect at all levels. But it is still a good income, and in the UK that is to be valued. When asked BA or VS .. ? I say leave it to fate, and take the first one to offer you a job ....
With hindsight was it a good move for me to leave the B744 ?? Yes and No .. I did not see the 50% payrise 6 months after I left ... and I would not have been made redundant 7 months ago (took 6 months to find another job, but am very happy now ..). On the other hand I have flown all Boeings (except the B777), in every far flung corner of the World, with the constant anticipation of where I would be flying next ... which I like ...
The people I flew with in VS were great, but so are the huge international variety I have met since ... what I do enjoy more, on the periphery of aviation is the freedom and autonomy a Command gives you ... does that have a monetary value ... well no, but it is rewarding.
No company is ever "what it was" ... but it is a difficult World, and although opportunity does exist it is very hard found ... so if you can get into VS then you should have a long, stable but maybe routine career ...

I.Duke

Holy Grail?
 

It's not a holy grail. That's for sure.

If you're happy with permanent long haul and can stay awake a LOT at night, then this is the job for you.

As an FO, you can expect a LONG, LONG, LONG wait for Command. A significant number never make it.

If you joined 15 years ago, you're laughing. You are probably 45ish and a Captain. Happy days....

....If you joined in the last 8 to 10 years, it's still a good job, but one that offeres little professional encouragement as an FO. I got the feeling that from a company level (and SOME trainers) that you are no more than a legal requirement. Most, if not all, line Captains are good guys.

I was only there 2 1/2 years. I had a lot happen in those 2 1/2 years in my life and I felt I really needed a change.

I got offered a DEC A320 job (never held a Command before) and I have really enjoyed the freedom that Command brings. I am 18 months into that, and have just been offered a Management job in my new airline. The airline sure ain't Virgin, but it has (and continues to ) offered me opportunities that I would have likely not seen at Virgin for 15 to 20 years.

I took voluntary redundancy last year. Got about 40K GBP. Kept it, invested well (luck) and have just bought a French Ski apartment. I can only thank Virgin for their generosity in paying me off. I wish them well!!

If they ring me at the end of this debacle and offer me a job at the bottom of the list would I go back? I don't know. I've scratched the Command itch and doubtless I would be a much more capable long haul FO for them. Never say never, but at least I know the score there.

In essence, it's not a holy grail, but it's definitely in the Churchyard, if not quite on the Altar.

How did you manage that? well done by the way. 6 years on the 744 with VS, facing near certain redundancy at NJE and I can't get a look in anywhere, even as a TP FO. And yes, I have tried everything and anywhere. Must be my age.

Congrats on the management job. I've flown the A320 if you are looking for knackered old pilots.

Your comments re Virgin are pretty much on the mark. You have done remarkably well, I wouldn't chuck it all in to be tail end Charlie at VS again from your position.

Northern Boy,

Give Eastern Airways a call, or send a c.v. to Steve Jenkins. If you fancy a command or fast track command on an Embraer 135 or if you have 4000 total and 2500 PIC the Saab 2000. If any job will do, the terms and conditions will check if you have a sense of humour, but its a job and will keep you flying.

Northern Boy
 

I just got lucky. Dunno quite how, but I struck early and there were raised eyebrows!!

We will need more knackered old pilots very soon. I am certain of that. Will PM you as the fall out occurs (plenty of skippers looking to leave my place).

Hang in there, I believe that things are slowly improving.

Northern Boy......how old are you?

RHINO: 51.

Feel 102 most days.

PPJN updated today:

Virgin Atlantic jobs, payscales and entry requirements.

Suggesting recruitment may be not that far away. Sounds like wishful thinking to me but I suppose you never know....

I'm 27 and 2500hrs total, 2000hrs B737 inc 500hrs NG. I'll be applying to VS as soon as it becomes open.

Being 27 - time to command is not an issue.

Lot's of colleagues applying to Middle East at the moment.

Hope VS recruits soon!

Is it true that the sabbaticals have been repatriated and that CUs are occuring within VS? (source ppjn)

Any inside knowledge?

Sorry to burst your bubble Jinkster but if and when VS recruit i very much doubt you will meet minimum hours requirements....However you never know, good luck!

beginner luck,

they used to ask for 2500hrs total so who knows, knowing my luck its probably increased to 4000!

That was the minimum when I joined, on average people had more. But I know of at least two who had the minimum on accceptance. It's every case on it's merits. The problem is with VS, as a ULH F/O, you may be faced with as little as one sector a month which means thay like a good experience base for those joining.

Good luck.

I know time to command is always a rather 'fluid' figure but I am a similar age to you Jinkster and I have ruled Virgin out because of the potential time to command. The length of time has steadily got longer with time and circa 15 years could be quite possible! Granted it could shift either way yet it is still going to be a very long time for what is still a rather small company in terms of fleet size.

It all depends on what you want and perhaps the fact that I would be giving up a jet command in the process might be clouding my judgement slightly!

Mister Geezer,

I guess its what you want, I always wanted to get onto the biggest a/c possible before command, I know guys who are stuck at bottom of seniorities lists with Thomson who are a good 15 years older than me, in the right hand seat of a 737 because they did TRI/TRE on a Dash for so long.

I always wanted to work for Virgin since day 1, and have been pestering them to give me a job ever since (sorry JT!).

I guess things will probably change, or that I am living in cloud cuckoo land!

From what I hear still quite a few guys are still to come back from their "time away" before recruitment starts...
Apart from the guys in DOH the other guys in the Middle East are not bonded so for sure a few of them will be back if/when asked...

Will they? Once (twice) bitten etc....

As this is the rumour forum.......Rumour has it Virgin has postponed delivery of the A330's for a further 2 years. That should slow things down!

TBE.

So surely, with the issues discussed on this thread plus the general downturn in the aviation industry and the necessary 'belt-tightening' across the board, it beggars belief that VS decide it's now time to change the logo (again) incurring mutli-million pound costs.

I spoke with a ex-colleague who's still at The Office. He told me that ''it's time'', that the existing logo is ''tired'', and that the market research states Virgin's customers ''want to see a new brand image''.

I left VS seven years ago as a senior manager (could see the writing on the wall) and now work outside aviation, still travelling extensively. I stand to be corrected regarding where VS may have done its research, but believe me, and I speak for the vast majority of SLF: we don't care what the lettering on the plane looks like, what colour the tail is or what shade of pantone red is to be used. We simply want to arrive safely, in a fully maintained aeroplane flown by excellent flight deck, with great ground and in-flight product and pleasant CC.

(FYI, I recall and can understand why my ex-colleague friend has that POV; the internal comms propaganda at VS has to be seen to be believed!)

Perhaps if the directors diverted their attention from their ''extra-curricular'' activities :hmm: and focussed on the business priorities, then nailing you guys for T's&C's, continually telling the staff to ''tighten belts'', etc. etc. could be avoided?

All the best to you all in these difficult times.

Dec 10
 

On good auth that Virgin will recommence recruitment before 2010 is out. Seems more likely now BA open same next month.

I would suggest that when any recruitment happens, an Airbus rating (especially 330) would be a great benefit - along with 2,500 hrs+ etc.

Unfortunately 'bean counters' will have a greater input into any selection these days, at the expense of the 'right stuff' required for ultra-long haul operations. i.e. can you sit with this bloke for 9 hours straight without throttling him!!

Does anybody have any idea of the numbers that will be potentially required for the next round of recruitment?

Thanks

BB

Should I stay or should I go ...?
 

I'd agree with "Stansdead" completely.

I swapped VS long haul for EZY short haul many years ago and am now much less exhausted than I was. It's still not great of course - I & others think their alleviation to roster 5 "Earlies" is actually quite dangerous BUT at least you can usually get ONE other thing done outside flying on a flying day, and on your days OFF, they can be productive days off and you're not just recovering from jet lag.

With VS I found that:
- they usually rostered a STBY on the day before your duty away, which invariably meant you got called and had to change how you were going to spend your day off down route.
- I watched an awful lot of films on HBO in the middle of the night in the US & was completely exhausted when I did get back so that even if my body was back in the UK I didn't have the energy to do much, or again I was awake at weird times of day & night.
- they expected you to work for "love" not money, just to fly their "sexy" aircraft to "sexy" destinations, although I understand this has improved.
- Whereas say EZY has a roughly 50/50 ratio of Capt/FO's, VS use heavy crews so there are less Captains (I'm guessing at 60/40 ratio), so longer to command + they took on a lot of young to middle aged guys who several years ago who are going to be there a while before they retire.

I'm sure VS has changed lots since I was there but my general advice to F/O's these days is try to resist the schoolboy in you that wants to fly a 747 - especially if you want to do anything with your life outside flying.

Their website actually states they are receiving applications

Current A330/A340 rating required. A320 will be considered. Min 2500 hrs.

All on the website. Type in "pilots"

Here Captain Widebody :ok:

Unusual that: they made people redundant, either voluntarily or compulsorily but they have not received an invitation back.

Therefore meeting the type rated AND experienced requirement.

I think they have asked folk back but quite a few are in the sandpit with large bonds. They can I think come back after said bond is paid off so new entrants may find folk appearing above them on the seniority list in years to come.
I suppose some may stay there if they get to the LHS.

Won't make a lot of difference. 12+ yrs at least for upgrade at Virgin by all accounts.:eek:

There's maybe a problem because the link sends to the same page!

Applications
 

The careers part of their website will let you apply, only open till the end of the month

Virgin Atlantic - Careers

The guys who where on a year "holiday" from the company are back at Gatwick now, getting current again.

Has anyone any idea on the number of pilots they require? Will this be for a london base? Do they also base crew at Manchester/Glasgow?

Good to see things picking up!

TBE.

I'm 737 rated, i'll go and sit in the corner and cry now.

bye byr :{

Im neither 737 rated nor 320! At least you still have a shot with BA :{:{