What does BALPA *actually* do?
 

I'm taking a bit of a look at my finances, and I'm starting to wonder whether my £50 or so a month to BALPA is money well spent.

I know people talk about the "legal protection", blah blah blah, but: *what* legal protection? Why don't I just join the TGWU and pay £11/month for basic employee's rights insurance? What *extra* do I get for my £50/month?

At the moment, I'm in the fortunate position of not having to have used any of these "legal services" that I pay for. I do, however, reap all the benefits of having BALPA reps negotiate pay deals in my company. Which I'd get even if I wasn't a member.

So I'm considering resigning and just joining the TGWU instead. Why should I stay?

I think you've just answered your own question there; If everybody in your company had your attitude, there would be no reps to negotiate on your behalf, and no reaping of the benefits!

Because the TGWU won't send a lawyer and a local representative to help you out if you stuff up in another country? It's a lonely place when you do, trust me.

Or using a wider example because if we all did that you'd have the TGWU negotiating your pay deals, not BALPA.

Two instances.

One, a company trying to weasel out of paying redundancy to an awful lot of pilots. Sorted by BALPA and worth a lot of money.

Two, a company which tried to escape it's responsibility over loss of licence insurance. Sorted by BALPA and again worth an awful lot of money.

Either case would possibly have been fightable individually, but think of the possible legal costs if the claimant loses. BALPA was prepared to take the hit in both cases.

Worth every penny of those years of subs, and now I'm retired I still pay to be an associate member.

lol,,, I am not going to look but I bet my pay cheque this month that there is reference to Monty Python in there! lol

you lucky lucky bas%&rd!

BarbiesBoyfriend

Well, if he is not doing the job you would like there is a solution.

Why don't you put yourself up for election/volunteer as a rep and presumably do a better job than him ???

The QUESTION above probably poses a few problems for yourself. Mind you I could be wrong!!!

God `elp us.
 

l really thought that Balpa had changed it`s tune after selling Dan Air down the river for a quid.
Seems B.A.`s staff didn`t notice.

Try £50 quid in the lottery.
 

Oops, sorry guys.

l`m pretty sure a line was drawn over that and we`re supposed to start afresh.

Mind you, the pension pot ......... no, a line was drawn. Even the Brymon pot ? yes.

2p well spent.

Quite amazing to see all the whining going on on these boards about how all the T&C`s of the airline pilots are going downhill. No more respect for the pilots nowadays!
At the same time a lot of the posters in this thread are cancelling their membership of the union because it saves them 50 quid! Or because the union "doesn`t do anything for them personally".
I have news for you guys: the two are related! Just keep on walking away from the union and watch how that effects your T&C`s in the long run!

Just glad I work for an airline with over 95% pilot union representation.

Over 95%, good.
 

There is nothing new in this life. Start with the history of the first world war.
Some are called conchies. Your "union" is a threat to those not able to look after themselves. And, unfortunately, you don`t give a !!!!! unless it involves erosion of your conditions.
That is the real threat.

55 year old "youngsters" who are not happy with a pension are prepared to work for nothing to keep going. This crap started years ago, and is the reason an ATPL is worth !!!!.

May l suggest you look inwards ?

ps, would you mind stopping that nodding head thing ? lt`s annoying the hell out of me.

It's all just politics really and with that you always get self interest.

Personally I'm glad I work in a BALPA recognised company and I'll continue paying my subsciptions to them as a professional body representing our interests in differents arenas, not just with employers.

I do suspect that BALPA represents British Airways pilots first and everyone else once their interests have been seen to but that's just the nature of the beast. They are the largest group of pilots and it just comes back to politics.

l am bereft of speech.

wee one.

Quite literally, you don't know what you are talking about.

The thread title is 'what does balpa actually do?'

Well, where I work, if the company forced a roster change on you during a trip, they had to pay you a 'disruption' payment. About £200.

Now, thanks to Balpas latest intervention, they don't.

Should I be grateful?

Why? What exactly is it you are against:
Unions
Pilots who are in unions
Pilots

Sorry I lost your drift in amongst the ranting.

BALPA isn't perfect by a long way, but what else is there. The IPA/F??? The TGWU??? The attitude of I'm OK the management won't screw me??? Please.

Presumably this "disruption" payment was part of your agreement with the company. I would have assumed that a change in your agreement even if negotiated by Balpa would need a vote from the membership to take effect. Certainly that was/is the way it works at my company. Also you make it sound like someone swanned in from Balpa HQ and persuaded your management to just do without the compensation for no good reason. Surely when you say "Balpa" did this or that it is actually your colleagues at work who have negotiated something on your behalf and the loss of the payment is part of a wider change where (hopefully) it is balanced out elsewhere (that could be wishful thinking of course!)

This has not been my experience when seeking back-up from Balpa. BA is obviously going to feature highly just by virtue of the numbers and problems but I did feel there was an effort to try and ensure fair representation on the council that is tasked with running Balpa. Ultimately Balpa is run by pilots and its effectiveness is reliant on people actually being bothered to play their part. If at your company you feel that the CC is not representing your interests then get involved and do something about it. Similarly if as a CC you don't think Balpa are giving you support well do send someone to the strategic forum days and conference rather than being invisible but then complain that no-one takes any notice.

I've had legal advice for free from BALPA's lawyers. I've also taken out their Loss of Licence insurance, and I have to say they were extremely helpful when I needed to claim. I also know that in the companies I have worked in, whenever there has been any inkling of redundancies or detrimental changes to work practices, suddenly everyone is rushing to join BALPA. BALPA in each airline is down to the representatives. If you don't like who represents you, vote them out. However I don't think BALPA are able to override management decisions. If management want to enforce a certain condition then they will. But BALPA reps could influence them or find another way. I don't think BALPA reps purposely go out to reduce terms and conditions do they? And usually there is a vote, so the majority view is the one that is taken. That won't suit everybody all of the time of course. I have been on the receiving end of changes that I didn't like, but benefitted others in the workforce.
I know of a couple of pilots who were sacked and hastily joined BALPA hoping they would represent them.
Finally, (and I don't work for BALPA!), Big BALPA do do alot more than what we see. They attempt to influence at national and international level. They have many groups that are very active and try and oppose or change regulations that, for example, EASA (and JAR before them) may try and impose.
But it needs the members to support it. Most pilots want all the benefits but don't want to pay for them or contribute to helping. They just want BALPA to help them out when the worst happens.
Personally I look on it as insurance - expensive unless you need it.

I was a BALPA member for 8 years. I finally has reason to need their legal services and it took them 4 days to return my call. The advisor was then very vague as to whether I actually had a case or not. Another ten days passed with no communication from them, before I called them to be told they would not represent me because I had " No Case".

I ended up taking my employer to a employment tribunal myself, and won.

I shudder to think of the amount of money I have paid in subs.

The only competent person I have dealt with in BALPA was Maggie Peknic, who used to produce some excellent job hunting advice and guidance.

And I'm no longer a member!!!!!!

What does BALPA actually do?

BALPA protects the rights, terms and conditions of BA mainline members at all costs, employees of other airlines, irrespective of the pro-rata numbers involved, get a lesser service, and in the case of any conflict between their members and BA they will be instantly deserted by BALPA.

As we have seen above, whether other individuals [or their airline] get any support or not is a lottery and cannot be relied upon.

Therefore whether the subscription [same contribution level for all, including BA] is deemed good value for money usually comes down to the individuals experience of BALPA. Personally, I would rather put £50 per month into Premium Bonds.

When a certain charter airline I worked for went into administration just over a year ago Balpa wrote a letter to the government and promised to investigate the suspicious causes of the collapse.

Without meaning to sound bitter, they have done very little in the way of practical help to pilots out of work or investigating these suspicious causes.

Personally I'm not going to bother with BAlpa anymore.

I suspect BALPA gets the blame unfairly when things go wrong, for example when an employer collapses, people are naturally angry and latch onto BALPA as something to lash out at.

BALPA can't perform miracles however I defy anyone to disprove that airlines with the highest membership levels have the best terms and conditions.

I've had sterling service from the association and don't work for BA. My company council has had large amounts of BALPA funds expended on it over the years. Whilst BA makes up the bulk of the membership and it rightly BALPA spends the most money on it, however it doesn't follow other companies are neglected. Quite a number of my colleagues have BALPA to thank for their ongoing gameful employment.

To any wavers, I would caution putting too much store in the words written under the cloak of anonymity. From the bottom of the page: "As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions."

I joined BALPA when I finished my modular training thinking that their would be perhaps seminars, networking opportunities, career advise etc being a newbie not working for a operator.

I pay 2 pounds a month and get a magazine and will use them for lost of license insurance. When I asked about careers advise, I was pointed to a C.V template on the website which was not all that good. At that time, I was hoping to speak to someone with industry experience on the flying side, have a frank conversation to help me on my way.

On the point of the magazine, reading the last edition regarding the cadet training, it was disappointing to read the lack of mention of those going modular being restricted to applying via the likes of CTC who have contracts tied up. Anyway, that's another conversation :)

they're with you all the way ...... until they're not

Like ALPA from accross the pond, collect dues... make payroll to their employees... pay the rent for their office space... do some lobbying at the expense of the membership to justify your dues...

Anyone else have anything to add to the list as to what BALPA or APLA does?

With 170+ pilots jobs at risk of redundency at BMI,if BALPA can keep just one employed over than what the company want redundent, then for him /her their union dues would be worth every penny.

and the other 169+ ???

In my company, the CC is a reflection of and is representative of the pilots. If, as you say Council Van they're incompetent and useless, perhaps you should take a long look at yourself. And your colleagues......

As for value for money, with the 66% tax relief on subs and the £950 pa fixed rate expense allowance, it's a bit of a no brainer isn't it?

CV, my lot are working very hard to make the best of a bad situation, perhaps similar to yours. I hope it works out well for you and yours.

My comments were made to point out that we're not better off without representation in this cut throat business that we're in. As bad as your situation is, would it really be any better without some representation? BALPA is not the issue, it's us and our employers that are the problem.

Good luck.

Captjns
 

One important thing was missed.

Somebody has to make the coffee. l prefer the Lyons bags at almost 2 quid a box, this time last year the 18 coffee bags were going at £1.20.

What Does BALPA Do?
 

To my mind & in my opinion, very little, other opinions may differ.

I was a fully paid up member of BALPA for 30 years plus, in 2002 I finally retired from flying & amongst others I advised at the time was BALPA. As of to-day I am still waiting for a reply to my letter, something along the lines of `all the best in your retirement` from them would have been nice.
During the last few years of my flying career, I contacted BALPA Financial Services a number of times, they were most helpful & I was very grateful for their sensible & professional advice, they were the only Department to ever assist me. To my mind I often felt & still do, that basically BALPA not only never knew I existed, but couldn't care anyway.

and the other 169+ ???

Bruce

I take your point but any job saved in this current recession has to be a good thing.

Mind you, I don't see any cutbacks at BALPA HQ,company cars all round appears still to be the norm there.

As are lunches,dinners, business / First class travel and swanning around to "conferences"( Page 9) : but don't take my word for it, check their accounts and see for yourself how much they pay out on legal expenses, Arkwright has every right to feel aggrieved(Cost of Defending members Page 5, compared to living the highlife.

Nevertheless, if that isn't enough to make you question what use your subs are put to, perhaps a sidestep from the path trodden by all the other lemmings, coupled with an oblique look, past your rose tinted glasses might open your eyes to reality.

The poor b8ggers at bmiBaby and bmi may well get reports and corpoRat spin on some well fed and watered meetings with management about their crisis, but there will little substance to the rhetoric.

In the meantime, those with 737 ratings who have taken off the rose tinted glasses are now applying to that most hated non union airline FR: when BALPA lets you down........there is always good old FR!!

PS Before any smart Alec asks for proof of who has applied / joined to join FR why not simply put up a new thread and ask them to come out of the closet. Oh, and don't forget the former Excel guys either.

As we all know, accounts whilst usually factual, seldom reflect reality and selective quotation from them can be misleading. Just why would FR Quisling-types show such an interest in the accounts of an organisation they aren't a member of and don't contribute to? Perhaps perish the thought some sort of ulterior motive was at work :hmm:

The world of BALPA isn't trebles all round and lunch at the Ivy. It involves a lot of hard graft on the part of the reps (elected by their peers, i.e. pilots in their respective airlines) and some personal sacrifice in financial terms due to loss of flight pay and allowances. Why should these individuals not have their subsistence and hotac paid for? Incidentally, unless it's changed radically in the last few years, reps can't expect anything more luxurious that a seat in economy and possibly a curry in the evening. Hardly extravagant!

These days things like company cars are more of a tax liability than a perk, and to be honest, if a job required a company car, you probably wouldn't want the job in the first place - the UK motorway system isn't a pleasant place to be. The posh cars in the BALPA car park are the pilot reps anyway :ok:

Airlines fortunes ebb and flow. The fact is FR happens to be expanding whilst others stagnate or falter, hence this is where all the applications are going to. I wouldn't for a moment confuse them for being an employer of choice. It's like saying Wetherspoons is the best pub. Think of them as a house for homeless pilots.

In short, BALPA is only really worth the money if your employer recognises BALPA or if there is a strong drive in your airline to seek BALPA recognition. Otherwise it is an awful lot of money for not very much when the IPA/IPF can offer the same for less money.

BALPA in any airline is only as good as the members of the CC. My CC have varied over the last 10 years from brilliant to dire. Currently, they are good(ish). This is directly due to the fact that only very few talented people can be bothered to work as CC members. Often this allows unsuitable or 'single issue' people onto the CC, with disasterous results.
So next time you winge 'what has BALPA done for me', perhaps the response should be, what have you done to make BALPA stronger?

Or, what have you done to justify the money taken ?

You can`t have it both ways.

Why oh Why oh Why
 

Why aren’t Balpa:

1. Standing up for the FO’s at bmi, why are they only protecting the Captains? Hour after hour is wasted discussing the ins and out of a re-promotion policy that in all likelihood may never happen! whilst FO’s are actually losing their jobs right now!

2. Why hasn’t balpa got rid of the cadet scheme? Or are they turning a blind eye to concede something to bmi so they can live to fight another day and protect more Captains? If these cadets remain after redundancies have been made they will be flying the sectors that some of those FO’s would have flown. Getting rid of this scheme will save FO jobs directly? I wonder whether this scheme would have sailed through the pork barrel buffet at balpa so easily if it was allowing PAYG Captains?

It was less than a month ago that this paragraph appeared in a bmi mainline newsletter – why has it gone from being a major issue to forgotten about? Why haven’t we heard anything since?

‘The issue of cadets is likely to be a major debate at the forthcoming BALPA Annual Delegates’ Conference and we would be delighted to hear your views to take with us to that conference.

We know that a number of you find it disturbing that we should be charging cadets for operating our aircraft at all, but to do it while making full-time, long serving pilots redundant seems particularly distasteful’


3. Why has it taken weeks to announce a VR package that has been in the AFS since before the big bang?


It would be nice to think balpa aren’t just pocketing our monthly fees – I’d like to hope they are seeking legal advice on our behalf (particularly with regards to these cadets) and will keep us updated – yet we’re still waiting and waiting and waiting.

The problem with BALPA is all the extra’s it offers. Why do we need this surplus advice? If you need advice you can seek this through other means at your own expense. We need BALPA when:

o The brown stuff hits the fan, at home and down route

o Advice with industrial negotiations or action.

Cut down the EMPIRE to what’s required and move to a smaller office, in a cheaper area, then reduce the subs to a sensible amount. Simples……

For me it is purely the cost of the subs. Almost across the board every airline has cancelled pay rises, or reduced pay and BALPA ought to be cutting their cloth too. They too need to be making cost savings, which could be passed back onto the pilot workforce. They need to be offering incentives to join and to stay and not just taking it a given right that people will cough up every month. In my previous occupation (old bill) the subs were more than half of what BALPA and we got a hell of alot more for our money. I do believe that strength comes from numbers, but BALPA need to realise that at times like these they need to be doing the whole operation much better. The subs are just not good value for money in my opinion.

My old dad always describes trade unionists as "an inferior breed of politician". Draw from that what you will. Yes, i'm sure they do good work for some pilots, but its mainly good for themselves i suspect.