Yep. The confused passengers were wondering why they were the only ones on the "Aer Lingus" route network to divert that day. :rolleyes:

A great big "Good job" to the management team at Aer Lingus.. :D I'm sure there will be another few promotions for that masterful idea.

Oh and by the way there is an oversubscription from the "legacy" pilots in Dublin to go to Gatwick and operate out of there on the new terms and conditions as set out by the company. :ugh:

So despite the fact they could crew all their shceduled flights with their own highly trained and qualified flight crew for absolutely no extra cost (actually at quite a saving when compared to the salaries in Dublin) they elect to send in a parasite airline who can't even operate to CAT II/III conditions. :D

Well done ol boy. How about creating a new management position.:8

Manager of amusing cash depleting ideas with responsibilities for paying others to do the job we can do for ourselves at smaller cost. :D

Only geniuses need apply. :mad:

Bravo Bravo

I dare say Bing that an appointment to that post is in hand !! After all Muller said he wants to see more pilots in management, positions such as head of change and development (or smash and grab) and head of cabin crew (becoming the only pilot I know of to have screwed every member of cabin crew in the company!) - I am of course refering to their terms and conditions only!!

Pat

An airline with a new type on their AOC may not be granted immediate CAT 2/3 privileges in the UK. Aer Lingus would have known that .
Moreover the same goes for ETOPS . Aer Lingus will certainly have considered the consequences for their applied for UK AOC on the A330 operations moving there.

....."may not be given Cat 2/3"

....means that they might.

Cuckoostraeus management may have sold Aer Lingus a pure cock and bull story that such approval WOULD be given at the outset of their pirate operations.

....E.I. seems to have been sold a pup, IMHO.:}

I'm confused by this entire thread now.

Astraeus is an ACMI operation, pure and simple (am I correct?) - therefore, would Astraeus' Commercial Department have entered into a debate on the reasons for EI approaching them? Just as EI has the long-term viability of its business to protect, so does the management of Astraeus (or should they turn business away during winter and explain the morals of the decision to their shareholders and staff?). Given the current form of EI, what would have been the outcome if a new approach wasn't taken?

Clealry EI had to assume the worst (plannng a restructure) and protect UK passengers from IR issues in DUB. This protects the good name of Aer Lingus as it would have been hard to explain why a strike in DUB disrupted their UK operation. If the pilots in DUB are ready to accept that the jobs aren't in DUB and aren't on the Ts & Cs the company can no longer afford (if it hopes to compete), then good for them (and good for EI). Surely Astraeus' involvement will be short and 'sweet'. I'm sure Astraeus were aware it could be so.

As for all the derogatory remarks about Astraeus, I have difficulty believing that a UK, IATA accredited airline with CAT3, a WW AOC, multiple Boeing fleets and 180 ETOPS has any difficulty in running a short-haul A320 operation. The crew they have employed are all experienced Airbus pilots and the training seems to have been done by a certain UK Charter Airline with a long history in Airbus operations.

I did hear that the SOPs are a bit 'odd' in some areas due to Astraeus being asked to create their procedures to mirror the existing Aer Lingus procedures.
Apparently this was done to ease the transition for the UK Aer Lingus crews who would be flying on the Astraeus AOC! Maybe EI should stop flying the Airbus like a Boeing (sorry, couldn't resist). As for EI management washing their hands of it, that wouldn't be possible under the EU-OPS Wet Lease requirements (they'd still be accountable to satisfy the IAA). No doubt a number of the EI crews required to go through an Astraeus conversion course will come up with all sorts issues to grandstand with their management and probably IALPA and the IAA too. Then again, it can't be that hard flying the same aircraft on the same routes with the same crew using the 'same' procedures, but under a different AOC, can it? The OCC must be over-kill for the highly trained EI crews, having to sit it out just to go and do the same job again(?).

Also, it would be very obvious to anyone with an operational head that Astraeus could be CAT 1 on a new type for a short period. If Astraeus did pull the wool over EI's eyes (and I don't think they did for a minute) this would reflect badly on EI. As Astraeus were operating one A320 from BFS over the w/end it is odd the lines of flying weren't swapped to avoid the diversion (who's call, EI Ops or Astraeus Ops?).

What would have been worse, short-term Astraeus or long-term O'Leary?

Anyway, I'm sure the concept wasn't devised by Astraeus, so why bother trying to undermine Astraeus when the real issue is between EI crews and their management? Why shoot down Astraeus pilots for standing up for their airline?

The size of the 2 airlines can't be that different now (?).

It really is this simple:

• Aer Lingus has an oversubscription to the Gatwick base from pilots based in Dublin.
• These pilots are willing to move to Gatwick and operate all the Aer Lingus routes on the new terms and conditions.
• AL are paying for Astraeus to do the AL flights and paying for their own pilots to sit at home
• Astraeus can't even operate CAT II/III
• There is absolutely no mention of strikes in Dublin
• Damaging the brand? Ain't the flight crew doing that....

Standbyils, don't be confused. Let us be frank.

While Aer Lingus pilots offered to work 1 month for free Aer Lingus management were scurrying around in the dark with Astraus planning a Union bust.

Astraues despite your protestations is a bottom feeder, we know it and you know it. Can't get a job anywhere else pay to join astraus and after paying for your type rating you can pay to log real flight hours on the line like a real airline pilot.

Astreaus are responsible for line operations and ops control on their flights. So not only are Astreuas crews CAT 1 only but their ops support staff can't read a TAF. If they can read a TAF then either 1. Astreus ops dispatched the aircraft hoping the WX would improve and the met men got it wrong or 2 they hoped their crew would push/bend a bit and get in. either way its either incompetence or cavalier.

The crews know well what they are up to. I empathize but they are still making choices. Its a long game and there are surprisingly few players.

standbyils - as one who is clearly Astraeus management, you can hardly be blamed for defending the indefensible. It is also worth mentioning that I personally see no safety issues with Astraeus operating the A320. In safety terms your company is clearly competent and proficient and any views I have of Astraeus do not extend as far as making any negative assertions about their professional abilities.

My doubts are much more to do with the active participation in a union-breaking operation that is clearly intended to udermine the power of the Irish unions. Somewhat disappointingly, a number of your own pilots are choosing to turn a blind eye to this contract to look after number one. Like all operations where looking after number one is the main aim, what goes around comes around and these very same people will no doubt find themselves royally stuffed by you and your management mates at a time and place of your choosing. Ultimately they will only have themselves to blame for having a cobra for a tie - looks great, makes you look better than you are and puts you briefly centre stage, but in the end it will always bite you. The people who are ultimately allowing this to happen are the Irish Unions, who are 'fiddling while Rome burns'. There will always be unscrupulous companies like yours but unions are there to oppose this sort of activity. In the final analysis only they know if they are willing to watch the destruction of their futures at the hands of a here-today, gone-tomorrow company like Astraeus. My sincere hope is they will have the foresight to take you on rather than bury their heads in the sand and hope you will just go away. There is no doubt you will not disappear just yet - the nature of scavengers and vultures is that they will always be hovering round near-dead carcasses about to breath their last. The question I have for the Aer Lingus fraternity is this - how long can bury your heads in the sand until someone cuts your head off while you are pretending nothing is wrong?

I'm not sure that is at all accurate NSF:

10IND043 Request for Mutual Assistance - IALPA - Ireland

IALPA are doing more out of view, EI pilots have more suitable discussion mediums then PPRuNe, which is perhaps why you haven't heard more?

I'm a big fan of your work on this site, I gave up a while ago but it gives me some assurance that there are Pilots like yourself in the industry who can see as clearly as me where we are headed as long as Ryanair and Astraeus are able to behave as they do without the consequences that a united pilot force can bring.

Per Ardua Ad Shamrock
 

Hello Norman,

Lovely to see you as always, but I think you're being a bit unfair in slamming Astraeus in the way you have, and especially for rolling out your cobra tie criticism, an old favourite you usually hold in store for me. Should I feel jealous?

Aer Lingus are screwed, Norman. The reasons why they're screwed are complex, and certainly for the ordinary line pilots and flight attendants I feel rather sad since, clearly, they've yet to grasp the fact that they were doomed from the moment of privatisation. This is an airline with SIPTU representation, a union that make the Teamsters look like a picnic for autistic nuns, on its own board of Directors, for heaven’s sake.

Aer Lingus' central problem is that for every second of its existence since privatisation, it has been used shamelessly by a series of governments as a political football, and a series of unions as a trough in which to bury their snouts. Our Willy knew very well that Aer Lingus needed to be modified post-haste in order to complete with the local Gorilla, and I’m sure I don’t need remind you who that is. Lets forget for the time being about its fortunes within a suffocatingly competitive trans-Atlantic market, but Willy left for BA when it was made plain by Taoiseach Bertie (Bubbles) Ahern, that his vision for a truly competitive Aer Lingus would never be realised.

Enter stage left the gutless and emasculated Dermot Mannion, a man who represents to corporate backbone what a soggy stick of celery is to load-bearing architecture, far more interested in the personal packing of his golden parachute than in running an airline that he was paid handsomely for, and Aer Lingus’ already critical problems were exacerbated whilst the new Taoiseach, despite encouraging words early on, has placed Aer Lingus in the too-hard basket too, while the rather larger problem of Ireland’s financial collapse occupies his thinking.

These desperate days, under the stewardship of Christoph Mueller, a man so committed to the future of AERL that he commutes from Brussels rather than relocate to Dublin, and we have an airline with three hundred odd million €uro in the bank, currently losing €2,000,000 every 24 hours. That's €60 million down the jacks every month and it doesn't take a first from Cambridge in maths to realise that the Aer Lingus story can't go on for much longer.

Dr. Death, Herr Mueller, who hasn't held the same job longer than nine months in the past 10 years, has decided to shrink long-haul and expand short-haul, beyond the borders of the EU (so far, so good) in order to better compete with you-know-who (VERY bad idea). He knows this is necessary because swinging arrays of job losses are about to be announced from the pilot corps, among others. Unfortunately, the seniority system will dictate LIFO (last in first out), which means pilots in LGW and BHD first out, to be replaced by DUB based pilots on a vastly superior contracts, thus defeating the purpose of the exercise in the first place. Oh dear, here we go again.

Three big problems I can see from the get go. First of all, IALPA will squeal like stuck pigs (refer to Carmoisine's helpful letter in the post above) and threaten to throw their toys from the cot, (in the run up to Christmas, naturally) and Dr. Death will have no option but to cave in and relocate higher paid and better protected DUB pilots into LGW, at inflated rates and on full travel expenses, which is where our friends at Astraeus come in. Second, he has no way of competing with Ryanair, even beyond the EU boundaries, so long as their production cost is almost double ours and, crucially, with zero union inclination to cooperate.

Thirdly, Mueller’s strategy is to hold on and wait for a white knight to come galloping over the Irish Sea, hoping they don't swallow their remaining 300 million before the lights go out, or union malevolence depletes forward bookings entirely. You can almost hear the laughter from FRA CDG and LHR. The entire AERL board is gathered at the Bailey Light, gazing forlornly eastward, seeing nothing but an indifferent Albion in the far distance. Sad when you think the only thoroughbred stallion in a position to have Aer Lingus not only survive, but also thrive, has been twice ejected from the stable. Oh well, there's no accounting for the stupid gene.

You see Norman; it is the unions you speak so longingly of who are truly to blame for this dreadful state of affairs, and IALPA with its tiny jockey in particular. Aer Lingus will shortly collapse under the weight of its own hubris, taking hope and history down with it, and Ryanair will pick up the choicest bits among the rubble, including those fifty lovely slot-pairs at LHR, so I think it a bit unfair of you to blame Astraeus for having a tiny little sniff in the Shamrock trough as it circles the drain. IALPA has been snorting at it like a herd of cocaine-addicted elephant for decades.

Love to your wife.

Leo.

Curser

I guess the best way to find out who made the planning error would be for you to ask your Ops whether Astraeus Ops requested the change the night before (!).

Get your own ship in order before pointing fingers.

And Astraeus hasn't done any self-sponsored stuff for 2 years (since the management changes) so a good friend there tells me (that one actually upset my ex-colleague when I asked him!).

Does anyone really worry if EI go under? Apart from the employees and suppliers of course. After all, it's only a business, and an over-protected and badly-managed one at that. Ireland is an even poorer small country than Belgium and (haha) Switzerland, and these 2 countries lost their "flag-carriers" without a huge song and dance.

Come to think of it, what is a "flag-carrier" in Europe anyhow?

I would suggest that Aer Lingus Ops declined the change on the basis that they wanted to highlight to their management the inadequacy of the operation.

No one apart from it's shareholders and those with future bookings with the company. That said, any company going under dosen't really worry anyone not connected with it, does it? It's the same in all industries in life.

Lord L - surely not at the expense of their customers - I very much doubt such an idiotic stance would be taken by a professional airline.

curser
 

Re. post #207, never seen so many attempts to spell it.

Astraeus Difficult? For some maybe but, keep trying, it will come through effort.

Aside...WWW, your comments are a little below the belt for a MOD....

Rgds
The Moss:ok:

Perhaps but then I'm sure curser heard very little of your small company before now. Perhaps what would be more appropriate is a memo to your colleagues in Astraeus telling them that the callsign is 'SHAMROCK', not Aer Lingus. It's embarrasing having to hear ATC in Belfast telling you what your callsign is.

But that's just me being petty Ballymoss and wasn't something I was going to highlight in the argument. My anger in this whole scenario is more with Aer Lingus rather than Astraeus as your company should never have been put in this completely unnecessary situation in the first place. It's a Union bust and nothing short of it and you guys are unfortunately being used as the bait. It's nothing personal against any individual professional pilot in your company.

If the decision was deliberate, and I hope it wasn't, then I think it was taken along the lines of it being best to highlight these problems early before any additional units come on board. 5 to 6 aircraft operating out of LGW to CAT 1 minima during the winter months is not my idea of a professional airline. Your words not mine.

Quick editing of your last paragraph LL! I was quick enough to catch the original post (our secret).:eek:

Surely operating to Cat 1 for a while is a professional approach to bedding in a new aircraft type with new crew, although I'm with you entirely on the fact EI should have spotted this one and protected their commercial interests.:ok:

The original post didn't have a reply to yourself, hence the reason for the addition and the edit. The end of your reply portrays your maturity, or lack of it.

NSF and WWW Bravo.

Leo, most people know who you are. Where do you get off, hiding behind your keyboard insulting people in your words 'ad nauseum'.

If Astraeus had not been awarded this contract , someone else would have got it. As has been mentioned before , there were plenty of bidders - many airlines would have just laid off summer-only guys and still have a surplus .

The contract is for six months - then Aer Lingus will have its own UK AOC. Who will fly the aircraft out of LGW then , if Dublin guys are laid off and the Astraeus contract finishes ? Half of them will be EI pilots already but the other half .....?

Why would Aer Lingus want a UK AOC?

Leave Leo alone!!!
 

Leave Leo alone...his stuff is the most fascinating and relevant of most contributions.....even some of mine, and I can be an RYR detractor from time to time....all healthy stuff.

Listen Pako9,

Dont you worry none about old Leo boy there. No-one with half a brain pays any attention to his cr*p. Infact he's generally viewed as the slightly odd kid who gets into the swimming pool and then takes a dump.....everyone just swims away shaking their heads in contempt.

But on closer inspection we can see that this poor fellow has in his last post, not just laid your average steaming pile of poo....no, what we have here is a bonafide !!!! 'turducken'! (Google if required)

Only he's gone for variations on a theme with the poultry....

What he did, you see, was take the cuckoo, wrapped it all up in a Ryanair parrot and then the whole stinking lot is encased in a great big Mullingar Cockerel!

And as piles of !!!!! go this post really was a stinker...infact it was fowl!

But I guess such are the perils of talking out of your ar$e....

Regards

The Ska-bearbaiter

Rainboe,

You really have me confused now. First you put yourself forward as as some sort of self appointed spokesperson for Cuckoostraeus in this venture then whinge when anyone has a pop at you, saying you actually have nothing to do with it....

You then admit you have shown misjudgement....One should not have indulged in discussion, but just let matters follow their natural course. Time to rectify the mistake.......

Does any of this sound familiar to you yet? Or has someone else been posting using your name?

And now youre back! Now you're actually rubbing your hands together with glee at the prospect of me losing my job.

Whilst some people can empathise with an out of work pilot being desperate enough for a job, that he'd trample over a fellow pilot to get their job, you are simply rubbernecking at the scene of an attempt at union busting, with the prostective looting of my job and 99 others. .....and are you actually grinning?

I'm sure BALPA must be really proud to have you as a member...:=

Great to see you back on this thread...because you have rhetoric to excuse everything , answers for everyone, so I want to know this:-

What words have you got for me as I stand here poised to have MY job stolen from under me?

And what words have you got for my kids, with Christmas just on the horizon?

And maybe youve got some words for my bank manager and mortgage provider as I struggle to figure out how on earth I'm going to keep my house when my wage disappears?

Oh, and I'd love to know what words you have for IFALPA?

Rainboe, I'm all ears....

The Ska-bearbaiter

Standbyils, let us get one thing straight. Astraeus has operational control over astraeus operations. There is one commander and one operations control. The danger of such a half baked system is just as you have pointed out, lack of accountability. This is a wet lease in of astraeus under its own AOC and operational control/responsibility for its flights is its own. Aer Lingus operations have been around for 75 years, their reputation is not in question. We have built up a safety culture one can only generate by being around so long. The danger for Aer Lingus is that all that can be undone by one slip up by a competitor airline, its crew or operations whose providence we have no idea of.
But this is beside the point. Aer Lingus crew through IALPA has been begging Aer Lingus management to negotiate for the changing times for almost a year. IALPA got no response even to the offer of 1 months work for free. Meanwhile in the shadows Sean Coyle the CFO (trained under MO'L) spawned this plan to bust our union. It may suit Rainbow to crow from the side lines but anyone who has spent a career protected by a union and then on retirement supports those that undermines another is on morally thin ice and toxic indeed.

WWW,
How can you post such rude, libellious drivel as your 'multi millionaire hobby pilot' quip ?

I suggest you should post under a name that doesn't have 'moderator' attached to it, in fact you should vacate that post forthwith.

And for your petty minded information, the individual you refer to has an enthusiasm and commitment to the airline and aviation the rest of us can only aspire to .

Nasty little man, you really are.:mad:

How many AEU recruited A320 pilots are actually flying the EI aircraft?
Has the UK based AL A320 fleet expanded whilst under the AEU AOC?
Are any existing UK based AL pilots under threat of loosing their job?

I was of the understanding all AEU recruits are flying the 1 x AEU ad-hoc A320. Unless the UK AL fleet has recently expanded or AL pilots on a UK contract have been laid off, surely it’s just the same AL a/c and crew as before, just under a new albeit temporary AOC? Perhaps someone can clarify how the operation is actually being run.

Seems to me they are just working to ring fence “AL UK Limited” as a self sufficient stand alone operation to protect their interests should the mother ship implode. Which could be five months away we are led to believe.

Spider Man, Do you mean the ex AL aircraft, now dry leased to AEU.All the AEU recruited pilots will be able to fly all the 320s. Why not?
As far as one can gather, the fleet is now controlled by AEU, if it expands or contracts really only time will tell. It's all smoke and mirrors!

This is nothing but a union bust wholeheartedly facilitated by AEU pilots. This makes them scabs and they are doing damage to all pilot's future's, not just Aer Lingus'. Many other management teams are observing with great interest what some pilot's will do to screw their profession so this is an issue for everyone, if not now then at some time in the near future. Isn't it about time we had a good old fashioned blacklist? Might make some people think twice.....

Well (as usual) it has not deterred a good old BA/BALPA boy right here on this forum has it? Nor has it hindered BA retirees in the past in my personal experience.

The name of the game seems to be; be a staunch BALPA member until BA retirement at age 55 (because you don't have any realistic option) and then you can go and do as you fancy around the world regardless of IFALPA, local unions or anyone else.

Some folks might call that a "double standard" but I simply could not possibly comment.

P.S. Can you tell me of any organisation that has actually succeeded in achieving anything with a "black list?" Not even in America does it work. I know of one chap who was put on a "scab" list and he has been a B777 captain with Delta for years.

Not so sure that would work these days, the operative words being "old fashioned".
It's dog eat dog in this modern global world now, whether we like it or not.

Well you go put good ol' Rainboe top of your list! I shall enjoy the position! As you drive your companies under with excessive cost contracts, you shall have plenty of time to update your list to your heart's content (when ski bearbaiter has time to drag himself away from his peculiar scatalogical web sites).

It's reality pill time in this industry. The traditional 'union power straight-jacket tied management' of companies making eternal losses can no longer be forced to subsidise uneconomic employees by sheer union will-power anymore. Companies will either roll over and start again or do something drastic to survive if they want to stay in business. Companies like BA, mostly profitable, can afford to pay what they like. Companies like AL, profits as rare as a cold day in hell, can no longer be bullied. Look to the death of mass car making and ship building in Britain, largely wiped out by union power straight-jacketing. Be in denial if you like, but something made it worthwhile for AL to do this! Whatever can it be?

Ah Rainboe, tomorrow's man in today's world. With your wonderful pension won for you by BALPA, you can now sit proud and watch the industry that gave you everything you have destroyed by the very company you now work for. Supply and demand etc, etc... You are in the fortunate position of not worrying about your next job and therefore can wax lyrical on here about whatever you want. Enjoy the moment as Astraeus's current 'success' may not last. There is a lot of water still to flow under the bridge and you may find that the bridge gets washed away in the coming flood.

However offenseive people like 'fade to grey' might find WWW's comments, there is alas some truth to his view. Your company is made up of Captains blessed by other sources of income and tragically desperate First Officers looking to get their foot on the ladder. I have no doubt that the individual referred to in WWW's post is a great guy who loves aviation, but he is probably wealthy enough to buy your whole airline and therefore is merely a hobby pilot as described by WWW. That is not to insult him personally as he is undoubtedly a highly professional and competent guy - the key fact is he does not need a cent from Astraeus and is therefure unwittingly part of the problem. There are also numerous other individuals in a similarly fortunate position of having other souces of income and that just compounds the issue. The particular tragedy is that we at easyJet were foolish enough to train up a number of your FOs and let them go - an error that has cost us dear as we crew up both Astraeus and Aer Lingus alike. Fortunately there are only so many people who can work for pocket money and eventually the chickens will come home to roost.

Regarding people's offence at Leo's posts, I can only say that I think he is one of the few quality writers on these boards. I agree with virtually nothing of what he says regarding unions, but there are some distinct elements of truth in his take on the state of Aer Lingus. It is a company with massive problems, the scale of which seems to escape many of their Dublin-based pilots. That is not really my concern, although I genuinely wish them success as a company - albeit a long way from Gatwick! Leo has a right to be heard, and when it comes to Irish airlines,there are a lot of people who would do well to hear what he is saying.

Interesting times ahead.

The costs may look excessive if the companies let passengers believe they should be able to fly 2000 miles for 99 pence.

How much was the taxi fare on your last night out?

Ticket pricing needs to get real.

No, dear, YOU need to get real. What my pilot colleagues know about the black art of yield management can be gathered, collectively, on the head of a pin. What once was, is no longer. It isn't hypocrisy to announce the truth in that, less still to conduct one's self in it's light.

Astraeus is company competing in a savagely brutal world, where massive capital investment is required to earn precious few returns, and I for one celebrate their acumen in pursuing such specious crumbs as may fall from the Irish table. Opportunity knocks only every so often, and in the sad Shamrock case, you'd better be quick.

I've only been flying aircraft for thirty years, but in that time I've seen such changes as would defy belief. There are two truths that have withstood the test of time. Firstly, that there will always be wings above a turbulent world, and second, that there will always be young men (and women) who pursue their place above the clouds, by whatever means possible. Unions, despite their best stated intentions to the contrary, have only ever managed to destroy far, far more than they create.

Norman is a stalwart of the old code, and though I, too, disagree with him to the very blood, I celebrate his point of view in variance of my own, and hold it higher still that he's able to disagree with me without recourse to insult or disparagement. Long may it be so, old friend.

Leo.

Leo

Can you just clarify: what is the truth about the new RYR/BRK contract that has further reduced pilot wages (not salaries)? Is this the case? And if so, how do you feel knowing that, if you are a pilot, and not a manager or the man himself as some people think (I suspect that he wouldn't be too concerned about participating, or what was said on a pilot's internet forum) that the company has just announced pretty healthy profits for the year and instead of rewarding you, is seeking to further screw you over? And if you are on a BRK contract, how long can you afford to keep working for them?

Admit it or not, the fact is, if this rumour is true; you're about to get poorer because your CEO sees, and treats you as a monkey. Not one person that I have ever spoken to (and that includes a pretty healthy number of RYR F/O and Captains) has been able to say that their dream was to fly for Ryanair. Unless this is your case (which would be pretty impressive, and you'd be a stand-out case), stop defending the people who are desperate to get you down to minimum wage, minimum t&c's and max hours, whilst stabbing you in the back and ruling with fear at every opportunity. I won't say that they all hate it, but they would certainly be happy to cast their nets further afield.

I don't work for RYR, which may well be your next point, but most of what I know comes from guys who do so day in, day out (until they can get a job somewhere else).

The company hates you and your colleagues and treats you accordingly; I tire of you all acting like RYR are the saviour of mankind.

I'd be more than happy to discuss the points you raise, 170to5, but this isn't the place. This thread is about Astraeus. Your last sentence is ludicrous. Neither is true, as you well know.

Agreed, this isn't the place. But I stand by my points, and I respect that you stick equally to yours.

Big CRM hug anybody?

Actually Rainboe, the name's not Ski-bearbaiter, its Ska-bearbaiter..... you know, Ska as in Scab. But then again I'm not surprised you missed it as you seem to have developed a convenient blind spot on this thread to any references to scab labour, Union busting tactics, or the looting of jobs your company is currently involved in.

You are quite happy to waffle on incessantly about just about anything EXCEPT the very issues at the heart of your company's latest endeavours. You certainly havent answered the questions I asked you in my last post.

And you know, being the company willing to sell its morals for the cheapest price is really nothing to crow about.

But then again you could probably use it in your next marketing campaign:

"Look at us, we'll do anything for money"

And make no mistake, despite your assertions to the contrary, I would have no problem saying any of these things to your face. I stand by everything I have written on this thread to you. My conscience is clear. I do not write with disappearing ink so that my posts mysteriously vanish after a few days/hours.

Would you however, have the gall to look any of the Aer Lingus pilots in the face and say,

"Hey we're stealing your jobs and you know what, its gonna be a pleasure to watch"

which is basically what you've said on this thread under the veil of anonymity afforded by this site.

I think ultimately that its sad that for some reason you have allowed your moral compass to be bent to such an extent that either you just cant see, or you refuse to allow yourself to see, the damage and human cost your company's involvement with Aer Lingus will have to those you would once have called your brothers.........

The Ska-bearbaiter

Quote " you're about to get poorer because your CEO sees, and treats you as a monkey"

170to5 I think you'll find the LH-C is in fact the CEO MO'L so telling him that he will have money taken off him by himself is a bit of a non-starter.

Anagrams rule OK