Is this 21st Century managers
 

Apart from it being almost all not true, i am shocked at this behaviour of child to intimidate the staffs. All pilots forced to read this

Swearing and not true propagandas with personal defamations. Is this normal for such intimidation

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2...entation3n.gif

Easy answer to combat this bull!!!! - www.balpa.org and vote away

Steeerike!
 

And a double turkey to top it off!

I stopped reading after the first point, anyone ticking the 2nd box will truly and by strict adherence of definiton fulfil the criteria of a brownworker. :yuk:

When is the vote count? Looking forward to it!

:D :D :D

Not that it will change much of course...:hmm:

Nice to see O'Leary panicking!
 

Gosh they're terrified of BALPA aren't they??? You've got Ryanair Management browning their trousers over this guys so definately time to vote with your feet - after all if you decide BALPA isn't for you after a year or two you don't have to stay subscribing.

If Ryanair touches your terms and conditions negatively as a result of union recognition BALPA will demand their reinstatement and if O'Leary doesn't comply - strike. Easy really - the principle of ultimate employee power - you can always hurt the management more than they can hurt you. O'Leary needs you guys to fly his expensive aeroplanes so he can keep paying himself lots of lovely wonga.

The Lancashire mill owners used to try the same thing I seem to recall....

History teaches you a lot.

Desk-pilot
(Incidentally I am flabbergasted that any senior executive team thinks that the poster above is an acceptable and professional means of employee communication - does they all wear hoodies at the board meetings too??)

If you read far enough down. "5% pay cut at Thomson"

I am a Thomson pilot. In last month's pay was the first deduction of our pilot surplus agreement. My gross deduction was £115 and it was from variable pay (sector pay etc) it was not a 5% pay cut and it was not from pensionable pay.

We are about to have a part time work scheme re launched which may be attractive to some and may reduce the surplus.

Just to set the record straight.

Pete McC

Pete McC

To further put the record straight, could you give a ballpark conservative figure for cpts and average (say 3 year) F/O at Tfly. From what my buddies in the right seat there say I reckon including the pension it's got to be pushing upper 70s for F/Os and over 110k for capts. Am i thinking correctly?

If you don't want to comment then fair play, but the RYR management had a right go at the Tfly negotiated pay reduction to safeguard jobs, and claimed in the latest meetings that RYR pilots were the best paid in short haul aviation!!!

shocking

they clearly do not want you unionised!

good luck to those that sign up to Balpa. as I stated on another thread, they have been nothing but beneficial for us.

CAUTION!!!UNION BUSTERS AT WORK!!!

Keeping you down saves the company money.Money well spent on retaining UNION BUSTERS!

What trash :yuk:

As another Thomson pilot (SFO) I re-emphasise what Pete McC has said. The 5% is from only a small proportion of our pay which is non pensionable pay. For an FO it is closer to a 2% paycut. It's a fantastic agreement in the current climate to keep all in jobs, we get extra days off in return and it was agreed by 88% of the workforce. For the record I am still taking home more than I was last year.

B&B

If an airline was not scared of a union then they would they go the effort to produce this propaganda? :}

From an outsider to Ryanair crews: 'Shaft em boys - you all deserve far better!' :ok:

Wow! I've never seen anything like that from any airline's management before. But on reflection, I don't think I should be suprised by anything from 'Pikey Air'.

They're worried.

As a former buzz pilot, the airline was not days away from bankruptcy.

The 'unpaid leave' at EZY - purely voluntary. You bid for it, some get it, some dont!

Nothing is forced upon you, unlike (sadly) at RYR!

ya weeks away...

No pilots have been made redundant at BA, the number that have been offered voluntary redundancy is less than 100.

Oh and no pay-cut either (yet...)

Kim-Jong-Mike
 

Hmm, I didn't know North Korean Airlines had an Irish franchise... :)

looks like you waked up a sleeping lion!
 

wow, they are really scared.. it is pure propagande, they are just afraid that planes will be grounded, because it will cost more money than a uninion. mangament is just scared about a union pilots corps, because then you have real power to fight back! money against money. thats how the business is working! good luck, you ll deserve a better managment than this :mad: !

I'm curious. If this poster was issued by RYR management to the crews did anyone out their name to it, or was it anon? If not why not? If they truely believe what they write why not own up to it?

It was anon RAT5, who would put there name to such a thing, seeing as it is contrived and twisted and not entirely truthful.

Funnily enough if was easyjets new "procurement director" WB that did famously put his name to a memo a few years back that contained similar childish and twisted rhetoric, though everyone believed, the author was not him buy MOL or DOB.

Maybe someone has copies of those and the last BALPA man poster. from Kim Jong Mick

It will not affect the majority, I reckon it will just strengthen resolve. it is designed for the cadets or new guys who haven't been here before.

What was funny a few years back RAT5 was one of the senoir blokes DOB was fighting tooth and nail to get through his imposed paydeal, and only one base LTN accepted all others rejected. If you had beent o the meetings and seen all the memos prior. Needless to say after the vote he came out and said he was actually glad we voted NO and didn't want us to accept it anyway. Needless to say it drew many comparisons to the Iraqi information minister "Comical Ali" who during the last gulf war said all was well and Iraw were winning when it was obvious to the world they were not.

They are not brave enough to put their name to it this time. because they know it's rubbish.

Was it Mick was it Comedy Dave or someone else. Tune in next week for the next epsiode of "the secret bullsh1tter"

I am very grateful to Ryanair.

If they hadn't thrown me out when they bought Buzz I would have had to work for the sweatshop tyrants.

Instead I worked for the two best airlines going, TFly and BA. Both with sensible Balpa consultation policies, dignity at work and better paid. It is patently obvious why a management would not want to consider it's employees.

The arguments in that leaflet are circular. If it wasn't for Ryanair undercutting the industry Balpa wouldn't have to renegotiate terms on a downward gradient.

Thank you O'Pikey, I think you are "fab". :)

For Info

I'm a BALPA member and have never paid more than half the claimed £1000 figure, and that was before the 66.6% tax rebate was applied. Also the 1% is only on pensionable pay.

As for "bare faced Terry" I can speak from personal experience when I say that there is no-one I would rather have supporting me against an aggressive management, who are so contemptuous of its employees as the openly publish such blatant threats.

This is the one and only chance for RYR Pilots to oppose the increasingly violent (I can think of no more appropriate word) attempts to subjugate Pilots LEGAL RIGHTS.

Vote now or forever hold your peace!

Edited to add an afterthoughts....

1) If RYR won't ever have to negotiate with BALPA then why go to so much effort to oppose recognition?

2) When have BALPA ever mentioned going on strike? They've never EVER had to do so in any company yet! Every single conflict has been resolved through negotiation. Perhaps that's what MOL is afraid of, so much so that he has flogged his shares. I think even he knows that recognition is coming which may cause a temporary dip in share price so he's cashed in (sold out?) now.

Laughable!!!!!

I work for another LoCo in the UK, Northern based. We too are pushing for BALPA recognition and it has to be said FR's bullying tactics can only be met with one action - BALPA!

Yes, you are always going to get the people who will sit on the fence and ride on the back of others, I see that with certain individuals at my company (They know who they are), all too willing to take the hard fought for terms and conditions that CC's and Unions have bashed out over years of negotiations without ever spending a penny themselves:ugh:.....

Hey-ho, that's the way it is and always will be, but to those who maybe teetering on the edge of membership, yes it is a bit of a double-edged sword in respect that you may be perceived as a "trouble maker" for being part of YOUR proffesions Union, but remember this, the day you have an incident and your called to head office for 'tea and biscuits' is the day you'll wish you'd have paid that miniscuel percentage of your wages to not only a Union but a legal resource as well!!!!!!

I've seen it all before in Airlines I've worked for. Yes it has been useful in the retention and improvement of T&C's but more importantly BALPA has always been an organisation that works with you, contrary to Airline chiefs beliefs!!!!!

The rumours around my Airline are if we become BALPA recognised our MD will spit his dummy out, I don't belive that at all, he is a passionate go getter, not a defeatist, more a bullying tactic imposed by those similar to FR's management team.

So, in these VERY turbulant times, what all Pilot's need is a Union to potentially work with them to retain what they already have and if the worst comes to the worst use their vast amount of experience to work with the airlines in a battle for survival.

FR's management team should be ashamed of themselves. It was embarassing to read, they clearly are either very stupid or very nieve to thing that educated individuals will be intimidated in this way.:=

BALPA all the way guys, you have NO option: BALPA - Home

Yep, another ill-spelt, ungrammatical diatribe to add to my 'Ryanair lunacy & propaganda file'. To be honest I don't really hold it against Comical Dave or Tubby Eddy for producing this tripe - they are not that bright and are only doing what they are told to do in order to secure their next bonus. However, I won't be too impressed by those of my colleagues who give this ridiculous memo any credit or are swayed by its twisted threats.

Rather than have its intended effect of scaring pilots away from the union, I would sincerely hope that anyone exposed to this sort of nonsense can only conclude that now is the time to grow some balls, stump up £25 a month in subs and support your colleagues. So what if you get put on 5/3 by a vindictive and petty 'management'. No pain, no gain. Call their bluff - they can only get 900 hours out of you however they cut the cake. If they choose to mess with our roster to deliberately spoil our quality of life, that is not the fault of BALPA or of us for seeking recognition; it is further evidence of an ignorant management who are too lazy to cope with their responsibilities.

Sure, they don't want us to get organised. If we did, they might have to employ someone to manage leave rather than allocate it in easy chunks. They might have to think twice next time they decide to arbitrarily reduce terms and conditions. They might have to accept that the 2000 professionals who play a key part in generating their profits (only to see it pissed away in poor fuel hedging and ludicrous takeover bids) deserve to be treated with respect.

So when you read this memo you have 2 choices. First, you could choose to be frightened by the twisted logic of a couple of bonus-chasing idiots. Second, you could find it astounding that you, as a professional, educated and motivated individual could even be expected to take it seriously. I chooose the latter.

Well said Adolf Hucker! :D

atr 209,

While I understand why you think BALPA should consider free membership, I think it is an unreasonable request. Here's why.

BALPA is not some 3rd party entity which is waiting to come and rescue pilots in distress. Rather, it is an association which facilitates pilots to organise themselves for the purposes of representation. It exists to help us to help ourselves not to do the job for us. As such, it is funded by the many far-sighted pilots from many airlines who consider a small monthly subscription worthwhile for their own interests and for the interests of the profession.

Ryanair pilots should not expect to have everything done for them with no commitment from themselves. It is not fair to those who do support BALPA and only reinforces the impression that FR pilots are unable to see the big picture and then do something about it.

I would suggest that if a pilot cannot work out why it is worth him investing £25 a month in joining the leading association of his profession, then he should not expect someone to bail him out when he needs legal help or assistance with maintaining his terms and conditions. I mean, can you imagine a surgeon turning up to work without medical insurance and just relying on the goodwill of his employer when he is accused of negligence?

So, to all the waverers who are excusing their inaction for the sake of a few quid, this is your chance. Join BALPA now and support your colleagues at this time. There may not be another cahnce in the near future. If it doesn't work out at least you will have the warm glow of knowing it wasn't your apathy which prevented us from achieving what other pilots take for granted.

Adolf Hucker.

2 very well written and thoughtful posts.

atr209 - In agreeing with Adolf Huckers post. I again will seek to reiterate that BALPA is not some third party. That is the message that the FR management will try and paint, as they have in meetings.

Your BALPA company council, (which one day may include you), will be made up of fellow FR pilots, it is they with YOUR consultation and YOUR opinions that will approach the issues we face, it will then be YOU who has the final say.

Everyone is so used to the FR way of just doing as they will at will and dictating everything that maybe its hard to grasp the idea of a genuine collective system, where we all work with management on issues to find middle ground rather than get shafted, intimidated and told to take it or **** off.

Think of it more along the lines of a genuine ERC, chosen by the pilots to represent their interests, that listens to other pilotsm unlike the current charade and unilateral dictations.

BALPA is the professional industry leading association that will provide various mechanisms and legal advice so that we the FR pilots can discuss a whole number of issues that affect us and then seek collectively to work with management on solutions.

Of course they do not want this, it wil be the first time they will have to have a 2 way conversation and to consider their actions.

They are far more used and comfortable in having one way conversations, where everyone is powerless to do anything.

And it is this state of affairs they desperately want to maintain, kepping you firmly under their boot.

Painting BALPA as some 3rd party who will make descision on your behalf is just part of the mis-information in achieving their goal in keeping you suppressed.

BALPA only facilitates what its members ask for. This recognition campaign is not their idea. It was FR pilots petitioning them to do it.

Everything that has happened in this BALPA drive so far, is as a direct result of Ryanair pilots, and BALPA members pushing the association to act and end this abuse.

Join up and be a part of your own future, rather than a spectator.

p.s Adolf Hucker

But that only makes £300 per year, How can that be true, I was told it costs £1000 a year in a recent memo !! :yuk:

interesting to see management already diluting their threat...

At STN Town Hall meeting EW said 5 on 2 off roster, now it's 5/2 5/3 just six weeks of the year....that's already in the contract....

Have we got 'em on the ropes? maybe not yet, but soon I hope.

:D

Wonder what the press would make of the 'Roulette' propaganda?

:mad:

Crap Announcement.
 

When you two are done whacking each other off, Flatulence Fred and Adolf Huckster, I have a suggestion.
What a good idea!

If BLAPA were sincere about their claims to deliver dignity and respect™©, surely such a noble cause could be done pro bono (tr. free, for those who still object to my love of Latin). So how about it, boys? Rather than masturbate each other here with clearly planted posts about how great BLAPA is, why not prove to all we doubting Thomases how genuine you are and do it for free? After all, we shouldn't really have to pay for dignity and respect™©, should we?

Yes, I though so. So, I've come up with a solution that will suit everyone.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

ANNOUNCING THE LAUNCH OF AN ENTIRELY NEW PARADIGM IN THE MURKY WATERS OF PILOT INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS.

CAMEL RYANAIR AIRLINE PILOTS.

CRAP.

JOIN CRAP TODAY.

As a special introductory offer, for those who join CRAP within the months of June, July and August 2009, I will waive ALL membership dues for a period of TEN, that's right, TEN YEARS. Nothing to pay. Not for ten years, and then it'll be 1 pint, per member, per week. Fair enough?

I will represent you at the highest level.

All members will receive a complimentary CRAP mousepad, CRAP pen, and CRAP stickers to plaster all over company property.

Members of CRAP can rest assured that their best interests will, always and everywhere, be represented because, unlike the alternatives at BLAPA and the downwind dwarf, CRAP membership is only open to members of the Ryanair pilot corps.

Special deals will be made with investment advisors, tax advisors, and a special effort will be made to welcome all BRK contractors into the exciting world of CRAP, so they realise how important they are to our strategy to get Ryanair management to listen to CRAP, and to take CRAP seriously.

Don't forget, everyone, you are CRAP and CRAP is you. CRAP is only as strong as the CRAP you turn me into, so don't delay and join CRAP today.

Details of a members-only CRAP website, and other CRAP membership benefits, such as discount on bar items purchased inflight, having crew control speak nicely to CRAP members, and having your base of choice delivered without fail within 6 weeks of application, will be furnished in return for your crewcode sent to me by private message or private email, both of which can be accessed by clicking my name in the upper left corner of this post.

Don't delay, JOIN CRAP TODAY.

CAMEL RYANAIR AIRLINE PILOTS

IT's FREE, IT's FAIR, and it's totally CRAP™®.

CRAP™® is a registered trademark of Leo Hairy-Camel Enterprises International, Limited. All Crap rights reverved.

Is it correct, according to the hilarious memo that EZY pilots are forced to take unpaid leave?

Economical with the truth.....................you bet!

Brilliant! A few to many Merlot's there old boy. :ok:

Whats that I am reading? Yep its your reputation going straight down the gutter..

Congratulations! :D

My reputation?
Here's a little exposé on your own, Forty Thieves.



Effective use of Camels noted.

I am also a Thomson pilot 'career breaking' elsewhere .The sensible and mature negotiation between the union and the company has allowed me to take advantage of this scheme.I also voted like the vast majority of my colleagues for a small pay cut in order to retain our most junior pilots-nowhere near the 5% quoted by the Ryanair spin machine.I confess to being truly shocked by the Ryanair memo to its pilot corps.If this is the demonstrated level of intelligence and literacy that Ryanair management portray then the pilot group have my sympathy.The premise that we live in a democracy on both sides of the Irish Sea seems to be lost.The overriding impression is that Ryanair are running scared of Balpa involvement and have pressed the panic button.Good luck,chaps.

HEE HEE HEE, Leo the camel toe, you one funny guy! :ok: I'll be bet you work for one of the LoCo consulting firms. I haven't seen anything that lame in years.

You Ryan Air guys stick to the high road, do the right thing and you'll be proud of yourselves later.

Good luck

If that’s the best "CRAP" you can use to dispel the very real arguments Ryanair pilots have then I think Ryanair pilots will have no problem working out what is best for them and their long term future. :ok:

An aggressive management that intimidates and threatens pilots (Thread Title) or a union of pilots acting together to stop this type of behaviour? It will be Ryanair pilots choice of whom or what has your best interests at heart.

Still I’ll let you attack me instead of answering points put to you on the very many previous threads and posts on prune over the years. Why do you refuse to acknowledge and answer these points? It seems that you act like your own management in a communication process that is all one way. To communicate you have to listen and it seems like a sense that is acutely missing on your part. Likened to a Camel with blinkers on and only able to go one way, your way!

You never know there could be a TRE position available for you after this LHN? :oh:

It is obvious that your behaviour on here is a definite cry for attention from fellow pilots and to court management’s favour. Unsavoury to say the least! :yuk:

Well, well , just 2 posts and I get a personal acknowledgement from the great LHC. I am honoured but sorry to disappoint you. Nothing planted about my post. Just the opinion of a genuine line pilot who has seen the company from both seats over the last few years. That's my CV - why don't you tell us a bit more about yourself?

As an aside, I thought your recent effort fell a bit short of your usual standard. Do I detect a whiff of desperation? I may be mistaken but the whole thing bore an uncanny resemblance to the sort of far-fetched, weak-humoured drivel put out by MOL's 2 favourite suppositories.

Take a bit more time over your next contribution, chump.

I actually laughed LHC, very funnily written, and the first time you openly admit to talking and pedalling CRAP.

But it's the same old, lots of froth, waffle and carefully constructed verbose, severely lacking in any substance. The politicians politician. Skate around the answer and avoid the real questions.

Neither did I plant an answer, it was a factual answer to a well reasoned post that stuck to substance. We all know you are well versed in English, but many fancy words doesn't answer anything. I get the feeling your are often playing to the white house.

Adolf Hucker wrote: Let me try, whilst I do not know the man personally, I know who he is. and the answer is to all is NO, I am not going to tell you.

Leo HC has appeared in newspapers and has had deserved noteriety, but I guess someone so keen to actively and agressively purport management directives, is not so un-astute, as to believe he does so behind a cloak of anonymity. If he does then more fool him.

When the cuckoo comes out of the clock to chirp, much is known of the cuckoo. From the land of cuckoo clocks to Ryanairland whether by Sea or Air.

Of course the whitehouse know him as he is in on company stategy, and yes he really is a line pilot, as crazy as that seems to most. And that real identity of LHC, behind the laptop is well known by both "BLAPA" and "the Irish pygmy", something which may litigiously bite him one day in his 'anus horribulous'. (Latin and anal reference together ;))

There have been calls at different times over the preceeding years from various quarters to out him, by pilots, appalled at his comments, (the current ones are remarkably tame in comparison), but maybe much to his suprise,

the associations he so despises were keen to uphold a sense of fair play, and respect his dignity and grant him his right to free speech. I actually heard an association officer he has ridiculed, defend his right to free speech and his opinion, however misguided. Something I count as commendable. Dignity and respect are not mere syllabuls or empty words.

Something, that when the time comes will be sorely missing from his white house lovers. He will get more loyalty from those he loathes. To borrow a couple of Evelyn Waugh book titles, far from being "the loved one" for his "black mischief". He may be left with nothing more than "a handful of dust" when MOL santions his "Decline and Fall".

Would such fair play or dignity and respect be equally reciprocated by the puppet masters pulling your strings, Leo?

I think by reading the memo that started this thread and the blatant and calculated mistruths within it, we know the answer.

"Flatulence Fred"

Gents,
I was a member of BALPA once but it was a waste of time and money, after a year or so my colleagues and I packed it in and all joined the Transport and General Workers Union. FAR better with and much bigger teeth, also a much lower monthly fee.
If you really want to get together to fight your management then give the T&G a go..........:ok:

I wonder which UK airlines recognise the T&G for collective bargaining purposes for their pilot workforce?

Thomson? British Airways?

T&G is probably fine for truck drivers or cabin crew, but not for us.

It is a bigger union and the fees are cheaper, but ask yourself why.

Our interests aren't necessarily those of cabin crew or the engineers for example. T&G is a socialist organisation and I can't imagine them supporting the interests of middle class, public school educated, overpaid pilots (as perceived) over and above those of the hard pressed, lower paid employee groups.

Good terms & conditions is every line pilot's aspiration and this requires a high BALPA membership density. It's irresponsible to suggest membership of other organisations will suffice.

Best of luck to all Ryanair pilots in the coming months and years.

Stressfree, is this just another post that suggests anything other than BALPA, I wonder why?

Stress Free,

Notice you have your location down as Uranus and I'm afraid your last post is definitely from that area. It would seem that your espousal of a totally inappropriate organisation in preference to BALPA seems to be aimed at diverting Ryanair pilots from the organised campaign which is currently in progress.

Do I think BALPA is perfect? No.

Do I think Ryanair pilots using BALPA to achieve meaningful representation is preferable to be dictated to by Comical Dave and Tubby Eddy? Ohhh Yesss! (in the words of Churchill).

Do I think your post is disingenuous, transparent and intended to detract from the one organisation which is in a position to help FR pilots help themselves? Certainly seems that way.