Low cost,as in Southwest(SWA),is just fine.THis is a remarkably good airline with unrivalled pilot loyalty and not bad levels of customer service.However,Low cost airlines like Ryanair/Easyjet are a blot on the landscape.I would love to seem them disappear but I wouldnt wish to see so many people lose their job even though their pilots(ryanair) seem to be rather gutless.
There are two objections to "airlines" like this:
a)Theyre incredibly naff.Naff rude people from check-in staff to cabin crew and maybe even the pilots themselves.In the case of Ryan,even their top management people are naff.Years ago,people would travel in comfort and style aboard the flying boats.They were treated like royalty by well brought-up,well-spoken and highly educated staff.Flying was a pleasure and a romantic adventure.Poor people knew their place and went by bus.The cabin crew you see on easyjet or ryan today belong on the jeremy kyle show.And so do the passengers.Naffness begets more naffness.If you want to do low-cost,thats fine,but maintain the standards.Lose the horrendous orange naff uniforms,the whiney outer-London common accents,the bacon baguettes and the interminable PA's on anything and everything from the latest Kylie perfume to God knows what.They even get the gash bags out and come down the aisle expecting you to clean the cabin for them.Re-introduce some style and class into flying.Is it a British thing?I think so as some of the low-cost European airlines,like Air Berlin and Vueling,are not naff at all.They dont shout into the PA mike or threaten you if you dont pay strict attention to the briefing.Theres much less of this "cabin crew are here for your safety only".Thats rot.Cabin crew are primarily there for customer-service.Ask SIA,they know a thing or too about it.It could be done so much better and wouldnt increase costs by all that much.What does it take to do a hot-towel service or do a proper bar service with peanuts.You want a G&T but theres no ice or lemon.Instead theres an over-cooked greasy bacon baguette and oranje juice.Its all so sloppy and unprofessional.If you sit down the back you're driven crazy by all the chav-chatter coming from behind the curtain.They dont get up and help people with their bags during boarding,just sit there chattering on in chav language.
b)Pilots are getting screwed by these low-cost tyrants.A pilot joining Ryan on a Brookfield contract has no protection whatsoever.If any problem arises(a good pilot will soon run into trouble at ryan),ryan can simply take you off the roster and you wont get paid.Young pilots are forced to buy their own ratings and even work free for the first 200 hours line flying.Even type-rated pilots are being bonded.Interviews and sim time are charged at the going rate.Jeppesen charts are photocopied which makes every flight illegal.Ryanair answers to the Irish CAA dont forget.Their pilots look like bus drivers in their yellow jackets trundling across the tarmac.And they sound like bus drivers when they take the time to welcome the passengers.Some of them dont even speak English.Pilots from just one generation back would not have let their profession get turned inside-out in such a thorough and degrading way.They had more backbone and self-respect.

All it needs is one good airline that doesnt charge an arm and a leg to start up and show everyone how its supposed to be done and dross like ryan/easyjet will be put out of business.An airline with a good level of customer service at a reasonable price(£99 one-way,£199 return) would work.The all-business class model failed and the legacy carriers do overcharge,so why hasnt someone tried this "halfway house" model instead?

Literally the most pointless post I have ever seen on PPRuNe.

The funniest thing about it is that you think people actually care what you think?

Back in your box.

Oh Caulfield, either pipe down, eat your bacon baguette and except the society you live in or go fly first class (and pay for it) and then tell everyone how elitist you are. Ryan is only the largest airline in Europe, and Easy the largest in the UK. Most people just want to get from A to B for the best value (whatever that means to them personally). If you want the romantic adventure, take the cruise ship!

Terrible punctuation and grammar. I am certain a bus driver could do better.

It's starting, FR just posted a full year loss of 169 million euros (the first since 20 years), and revised it's estimate for next year from 300 million profit to 200 million. Guess the Aer Lingus adventure wasn't such a good move after all... Too many aircraft, can't sell them etc etc.

And still MOL keeps bragging on about buying Lufthansa. Also, MOL hopes to slash fares 10 to 20% to maintain passenger traffic. I wonder how on earth is he going to achieve that...

I just hope FR doesn't bring the whole low cost model down with them.:rolleyes:

not at all, by purchasing aer lingus shares they have stopped anyone else from buying them, thus whether they are obtained by ryr or they go broke,(which is now the most likely outcome) ryr gets to dominate the irish market, money well spent either way.

For heaven's sake Doug...

So the thousands of very professional UK pilots flying for EZY, Ryan, Baby, etc are "gullible and don't mind getting shafted"? Anything else you would like to add from your pedestal? Is working for BA in the UK, Air France in France, etc. the ONLY option in your eyes? My pay is good, I fly 700 hours a year and I really enjoy 5-4-5-3.

What do you want to see? Communism? All airlines must pay the same exact salary, offer the same benefits and fly their crews the same amount of hours? Should an EZY TRE with 25 years jet experience (not me, btw) apply to BA to go back to the right seat for 15 years in order to lose is shameful "shafted and gullible status"?

P

What RYR, EZY and the other LoCos are trying to do is turn air travel into a commodity business. Base the price on supply and demand.

An unfortunate side effect from this is that crews are aslo being treated as a commodity by those airlines.

Yes, absolutely! The majority are young (20-30 year old) naive kids who will try to undermine any contract (seasonal commands...) and overbid any other pilot for hours/type ratings to get a job.

LoCo pilots must be the only ones that are actually proud to work maximum hours, pay for type ratings and get no benefits, private health care or pension to speak of and yet they are actually gullible enough to believe they're working for a career airline. They are even so gullible that they resist any positive momentum to change these mediocre T&C's for the better, firmly believing the propaganda that it will bankrupt the company. Hahaha!

So yes, gullible indeed! :8

Remember that LoCo is the 'communism' of aviation, offering the same bland cattle style transportation product for the masses (read: proletariate!). Aeroflot was probably a LoCo avant la lettre so to speak, where passengers had to haul their own suitcases across a rainy/snowy tarmac and where one had to bring his own (eatable!) food for the flight. Ironic isn't it, how communism meets capitalism? That is of course: communism for the employees and customers, and capitalism (read: bonuses!) for the managers... ;)

And you think you will, long term, get a decent salary package for offering such a product? Gullible! :8

Spot on! Just like Mc Donald's. Economies of scale...

I was going to give an extensive reply when I got to the bit about Lo-co being the "communism of aviation"... It so illogical and out of touch with reality there's not point arguing I'm afraid!

P

Well, you're the one who brought communism into it, not me.

I never ever said anything about all pilots having to earn equal wages or having to have equal T&C's.

My only point is that a lot of LoCo pilots allow themselves to be exploited and are thus dragging the entire industry down.

A recent attempt to book flights from Spain to Germany and Portugal favoured Lufthansa and TAP versus Easy/ Air Berlin and Ryanair. . . . . . Bu u u u u t, the prices offered by LH &TAP would NEVER have existed without the loco's pushing them down. I remember well in the mid 90's whilst working on a contract with no concessionary travel , having the choice of paying the equivalent of 500e for a return from CDG - BCN with Air Frog, or paying 500e return with Iberia, times have really changed, and unless you really book at the very last minute, or insist on travelling Fri night to Sun night you would now be unlucky 16 years later to pay any more than 150e (as long as you can accept BVA as being Paris, & GRO as being BCN . . .ish :rolleyes: )

doug what a .

Au contraire, Doug. . . . got it in one. :D Shame so many others don't. :ugh:

Studi,

That is one on the most logical postings that I have read within PPPuNe.

A breath of fresh air!