once you're fully trained with Ryanair!
 

Hello there folks this is my first thread on pprune but have been a member for many years (I’m 19 now) but didn’t feel any need to post a new thread as there is plenty of information on the site as it is. However I’m currently at university and was hoping to start my flight training in late 2012, but more worried about getting a flying job at the end of training rather than actually completing an integrated course. I understand Ryanair is a option for many rookies and my question is if I was going to join Ryanair and am fully line trained will they chop my hours and give them to new ''cadets'' rather than keep giving hours to more senior first officers. As to keep costs low surely they will give more hours to cadets and work them to the ground and give less hours to more senior pilots (not captains) to save money? Please don’t bite my head of Gents and ladies.. I just want to learn! Thanks in advance.:ok:


Regards,

Captdivz.

divy
 

i think you have answered your own Q......

there are so many threads running on pprune at the moment all about the ryans mainly in the T&E section where you started this one........

if i was you i would get a tax accounting degree,there is probably way more money involved in that than in the cockpit!!!

but dont let me put you off and best of luck with what you decide :ok:

Capt Crilly
 

I was never interested in becoming a pilot because of the money- I know I could definitely earn more money in dentistry or banking as my parents would have liked me to but once you have been bitten by the flying bug its hard to resist! Regarding my question it does not really say anything clear cut about life at Ryanair as a senior first officer! Or perhaps it does and I am not looking hard enough? I was hoping someone could give me a helping hand instead reading though thousands of useless threads half of which is more of a slagging contest rather than factual information! Plus by the time I come out of flying school I would have hoped things would have picked up by then (touch wood).. My degree is aviation related which I have been told will help me even more to get my CV to the top of the pile... Am I wrong?:O

So! You have just started at university on an aviation related degree and you have three more long years to go and then after you have finished your degree you want to start a flying course-either integrated or modular.
So! This shows that you have done your homework for flying and that you have a solid set of goals to achieve before you start down (or up) that often sloippery slip.
So! You also demonstrate realism about one of the most malignant - mean maligned-companies in England. (Yes..Irish but some English people call Austrians German because they speak the same sort of language).Ha! David Irving's right hand man was an Austrian. You must blame Brunswick!
So! Then you show an understanding of international fincance by making the long term and possibly correct prognosis for corporate recovery.
And then you further continue by demosntrating an understanding of most of the undiluted horse feathers (more worse even) that goes on Pprune. You also demonstrate a fair knowledge of women
by showing that you understand about sharp tongue unfair critique.
Altogether I would say that you show outstanding qualities of education, upbringing, maturity and dedication for one so young.
You should go very far young man. I wish you all of the luck!

@DaH

Geiler nick:D

Der absolute Hammer
 

der absolute hammer- thanks for your supporting comments.. I really appreciate them mate! As for my question- does anyone have any idea if Ryanair do actually chop your hours once you have built up some seniority? Another question... why don’t all the Ryanair pilots go on strike together and demand better conditions- Senior managers at Ryanair may threat to sack all the workforce however it would take months to bring in new pilots up to standard or even better why can't the EU central government step in and help the pilots as some would say this is modern slavery however the shackles of depression and oppression still remain firmly gripped around all the Ryanair flight crew’s weak wrists. If aviators do not stick together like glue… one day all terms and conditions will erode so badly youngsters like me would not even look twice into professional flying!

Answer to your two Q in the post above.
1 - at the moment Yes, that is what happens & unless expansion overtakes recruitment will undoubtedly continue.
2 - God knows , you tell me, people ask themselves this all the time, but unfortunately it seems that everyone is incapable of asking the question to each other on the same day . . . . . so far.:hmm:

Hi there.

With regards to hours. At the moment that is what is happening. With 300 cadets sitting in the holding pool and waiting to give Ryanair £20,000 odd pounds to do a type rating in Ryanair's own sims, and then go straight onto a Brookfield contract, I guess they will continue cutting hours for a very long time. I have done around 600 hours this year, and getting paid on an hourly rate and having to pay training costs back, life if tight.:(

In response to the question about going on strike, I believe it is illegal to strike unless it has been agreed by a union, and Ryanair pilots are not in a Union. The best that could be done is working to rule. I think that is pretty much what Swissport the Ground Agents did last summer. It caused a nightmare. Not sure if it worked.:confused:

In my opinion, (which doesn't count for much), make sure you get the uni degree. It is something that can never be taken away from you, and the major carriers almost require something to put you ahead of the rest of the pack, especially if it is related to the industry. You never know, as a friend of mine did, he worked in Ops for a while before getting a job flying with the same company. Helped him out hugely knowing the important people in the company before getting into the plane. (Never hurts in an industry of "who you know, not what you know").:ok:
In 3 years time, things might be different, and the economic problems may have started to go. Look at the flight training then, because don't forget it will be another 2 years on top of that until you have finished the Integrated course. And out of interest, why an integrated rather then modular. Join the UAS whilst at uni and get the RAF to pay for it. I would look at RAF long before commercial aviation.

Some food for thought.

jayc004
 

Thanks for your reply jayc004. I was an Air Cadet for 5 years prior to university and thought about the UAS but in the end I don't think I was committed enough deep down to sacrifice two evening a week whilst I was still at University. Sounds stupid and short sighted but in the second year I may give it a pop. IS this your first year at Ryanair jayc004? With regards to the RAF... I don't think I am good enough to get in first of all and secondly minimum service is way too long for me. Although I will be taking the tests within the next year for the hell of it... Who knows I may ace them! The degree I am undertaking is an aviation management degree and I think it will help me a fair bit with not getting the job but perhaps getting the interview realistically plus putting of training for a few more years won't kill me! I think if I went integrated it would give me the best possible chance of gaining employment rather than modular from the research I have done... but on the other hand many people have said it doesn't make a huge difference. Did you go modular? Is Ryanair your first flying job?

Regards,

cptdivz:cool:!

cptdivz
 

I really wouldn't worry about having to go to an "old boys club" twice a week. I have a few friends that went into the UAS. Honestly, they loved it, and you will make some amazing friends. It is just a big drinking club. I have spent many an amazing night in the UAS Mess getting trashed with brilliant like minded people at £1 a drink!:ok:

I honestly wouldn't think about the minimum service bit. Being in the forces is a lifestyle, not a job. It is either for you or not, and that is why I would suggest go to the UAS if you can and give it a try. See what you think because I think you will be suprised.
I would give my right arm to be able to fly in the RAF. The chance to be in charge of your own aircraft. Fly how you want to fly, and make the decissions. Commercial is nothing like that. "It's flying Jim, but not as we know it". :confused:

I have been in Ryanair for over 2 years now. I did the modular route and thought it was very good. I could work at the same time as flying as it was only really flying couple of hours every other day, and paid for a lot of my training myself, and still from my first flight in C152 to sitting in B737 was less then 2 years, so not any longer then integrated, but worked out to be less then £30,000.
To be honest, most of the time when you go to places like Oxford or Jerez, the extra you are paying is to get you that chance of an interview with a major company like BA, Flybe, Netjets and the like. Not that there is anything wrong with that as every possible thing you can do to increase your chances of a job interview is worth it, and never more so then now, but if you have your sights set on Ryanair, then the school you go to doesnt really matter. As long as you have a licence that can be converted to IAA, it doesn't matter.

cptdvz

By starting yet another thread on RYR it will turn into another mud slinging match.

You should be worrying about finishing your degree and financing your flt training (without getting into debt) rather then speculation on how many hours you will be flying if you join Ryanair. I work for Ryanair, it is not my first job, but am very happy here in Bishops Stortford and so are others!

My answer to your question is that RYR need captains (although you will never get them to admit it). If they constantly restricted F/O's building hours in a resonable amount of time then they would never have enough F/O's to upgrade given their planned expansion and commanders leaving for pastures new. Even though they are bringing chargeable type ratings in house this company is so cost sensitive they wont have masses of co-pilots sittng around not flying - even if paid by the hour its costs money for line checks, sim every 6 months etc, etc.

And, from a meeting i sat in the other week at STN the number of co-pilots per airdraft is being reduced over the coming months to make more sectors available per F/O.


Get a non flying job when you graduate, save your money, go somewhere hot and sunny to train to be a pilot, do it as cheap as possible and have a good time. If some moron wants to commit commercial suicide by borrowing large sums to get a job with ryanair and spend the next 8yrs paying the majority of their salary to the bank and have no life, let them. I have no sympathy for such types.

Good luck to you.

cptdivz, I really got annoyed reading your posts. You either grow up having a passion for flying or you don't. If being in the Air Cadets for 5 years didn't stir this then I despair. You didn't want to commit two nights per week to it whilst at Uni? Good thing you never applied in that case and cost someone else more deserving a place. How stupid of you to think of the UAS as a drinking club and not a place where you can achieve your life's goals.

I was in the UAS in Liverpool and loved it. I got the 50 free flying hours and had some amazing experiences, a fantastic social life and disciplined start to flying. I later spent many years saving the money for an integrated course at Oxford which I started when I was 27. All I have ever wanted to do with my life is work as a pilot and now that I am an airine pilot (after taking 20 months to get my job after Oxford) I appreciate it even more knowing that it took much sacrifice, determination and effort to get to where I am.

How on earth can you be concerned at this stage in your life about if you won't fly enough hours as a cadet if you get a job with Ryanair? Have you got yourself a Class1 medical yet? Do you know if you have the aptitude to complete flight training? How about the 14 ATPL exams? Have you got the money? If you don't think you can sacrifice two nights per week in the UAS do you think you'll have the patience to go through all it takes to make it?

Take a chill pill.

archenergy
 

I appreciate your post archenergy. You are right I should not have posted what I said UAS is not a drinking club however it does require a fair bit of commitment which I am not willing to put in my first year of university (but maybe in my second)where I should be enjoying life and concentrating on passing exams rather than building flying hours. However saying that as a matter of fact I am going on an 8 day full gliding scholarship with the Royal Navy in Easter which should be quite good.
With regards to passing the class 1 medical- I took this before I started my UCAS application and passed as I wanted to make sure I was fit and able to fly before commencing an aviation management related degree.
I just wanted to know how it worked at Ryanair merely out of curiosity- I was not planning my flying career out. As you said, I might even be useless at the controls? I understand that you did work quite hard to get where you were and you should be proud of what you achieved rather than reflecting on how much effort you put in. You have made it now and maybe you should pass on words of wisdom and experience rather than beating down on rookies:ok:!

cptdivz, fully agree....just one thing, my last 2 years of high school (weekends and summers) and the rest of my young life has been completely dedicated to flight...that is what it takes...

take it or live it...

D

Spare a bit of energy for the grammar! Can you see you're mistake in the title? (there's a hint in that sentence!)

As mentioned previously, consider joining the forces and learning how to fly there. Aside from having a blast, you'll be able to get your ATPL for a fraction of the cost when you eventually leave.

download dog
 

Joining the forces is a lifestyle- one i dont think i could handle. Plus i don't think it is wise for any future airline pilot to join the armed forces just to save the money.. it's taking the piss a bit i think. It's tough to get in as well! Did you go down this route DownloadDog?

Regards,

cptdivz.

cptdivz

Why do you want to be a commercial pilot out of interest?

jay004
 

I'm not sure to be honest- since i was 10 I liked the idea of flying planes all over the world and over the years which included tonnes of research I realised it was a possible dream. Of course there are negatives points to becoming an airline pilot but nothing is perfect. Ideally towards the end of flying career (if it takes off) I would like to become a flight instructor at my local flying school and help people get in the air. How about you jay004.. what got you into flying?

It has been something that has always been in my family. I am the 3rd generation of pilot.
The only reason I am flying commercially is because I was to old to by a few months to join the RAF once I had finished my Uni courses and various other things. I passed all the apptiude tests and the like.

I think that almost everyone that enjoys flying dreams of the RAF. (I know that is a huge generalisation).

I think you will find that if you really enjoy flying GA, then flying commercially sucks. There is no free thinking. There is nothing other then "follow the magenta line". Sure, you can take the AP out and fly by hand, but at the end of the day, you can only operate as the company wants you to.
Real flying like PPL, and flight training doesn't happen in the world of the airlines.
If you are truely passionate about flying for a living, and enjoy what ACTUAL aviating is about, then I think you not going for one of the flying divisions of the various Armed Forces is a really big mistake.

If your idea of flying is; sitting for 12 hours in a 6x6 foot box with someone else saying "Are you high, low, or on profile", having a company breathing down your neck because you used 100kg of extra fuel on a sector because the wind on the computer generated flight plan was not correct; then commercial aviation, and especially Ryanair is for you.

I might be slightly out of line, but you just don't sound like you are really in it for the actual "flying" flying. I have met people that wanted to become a pilot because they liked the idea of flying to nice places, seeing the world, and meeting lots of hosties. In reality, unless you are flying Private or Corporate, you are going to be joining an aviation wide rat-race, that is becoming more and more thankless everyday.
People expect to get on a plane, leave on time, arrive on time, and then have the right to complain about the pilot making a "possitve arrival". Airline flying now is very much becoming a bus service of the sky. HOWEVER, it still requires skill and knowledge that has always been required by the pilots since flying first came about. There may be more automation now, but remember when the AP fails, you still have to fly and land that plane. Look at what happened to the FEDEX in Tokyo. Not to sure what happened, but it shows how quickly things go wrong. We are human at the end of the day, and it is all to easy to make a mistake and you're dead seconds later.

I am not trying to insinuate or suggest anything, or say that you shouldn't do it. I think that becoming a pilot these days costs so much money, and it will only get worse as the industry will follow Ryanair's lead and charge for everything and anything as long as they know people will pay for it. You are still young enough by the sounds to still get somone else to pay for it. To enjoy genuinly flying all over the world, meeting amazing people, having the time of your life and getting paid for it. All of that without outlaying a single penny. The real cost to you would be taking a real good hard look at what you actually want out of your career. If it is real flying that you want, then go for the forces, if it is an easy career that you want then go airlines.

Sorry to have gone on for so long, and I am sure there are lots of people that will disagree violently with me, but that is my opinion. I regret everyday not going for my selections 6 months earlier. It is something that I have to put up with now forever. Flying airlines is not a bad substitute, but it is not where my heart is. When I have covered the cost of all my flight training and type ratings and all of those things, then I would love to seriously consider flying GA or island hopping, because in my opinion, that is real flying where you make your own choices and have to rely on your ability, not on the magenta line and AutoPilot.

You have to remember that in order for Ryanair to reach 300 aircraft you have to train lots of pilots. You start training them the year before for each succesive years growth, therefore, it is natural to have too many FO's around December every year as they are pilots trained with the spring deliveries in mind. When the growth stops, then musical chairs stops and the 'fast trick to command' also stops. That is what you need to factor in to your plans. This is definitely not the place to get stuck in the right seat.

in my last airline
 

Thanks for your comment mate when you think about what you said it does make sense- its still not fair but i suppose managers are there to make money not to treat pilots fairly! But how long would it take a rookie to reach command- after what you said it must be more than 3 years:ok:?

The "Fast Track to Command" will never stop. One of FR's great and many failings is their total inability to plan Crewing levels. They are either totally short (i.e the unpaid leave in STN left them devoid of Captains) or massively overcrewed (i.e First Officers for the last two years - and yet they just keep on coming). I know we are buying more planes etc, but we are not expanding the operation to incorporate these planes into the schedule (DUB cuts, STN cuts, LPL cuts etc etc) therefore meaning we are heading into an even worse situation with being saturated with F/O's. We can all see it, we have the conversation every day in the crew room. Back to the Command issue though, regardless of needs the Fast Track to the Left will never slow cos they don't have the foresight or planning ability to work out who needs to be where and how many are needed. That goes for Capt's and F/O's.

It must be extremely difficult to plan any airlines crewing requirements in the present turmoil. Ryanair were always 'lucky' because, 'til now they simply needed as many pilots as they and their external TRTO's could train. Now, given the uncertainty, they will probably still go ahead and train at least 3/4 of their requirements for 2009 projections and then panic train the final 1/4 if they are needed. With regards to joining, you should have a best case scenario and a worst. Best is 850 hours per year and a command when you have 3000 hours and the worst would be (guessing here) 600 hours a year and a command at 3000hours. Between 3 and 5 years realistically. However, as I said before, in 5 years from now will there be any growth left in Ryanair? Not based on current orders!
I enjoyed many years at Ryanair but have enjoyed fresher pastures and a kinder management style for the last couple of years elsewhere, but still have many reasonably happy friends there.

"I think that almost everyone that enjoys flying dreams of the RAF. (I know that is a huge generalisation)."

Yes... massive.

Jay might be missing a trick here. When you fly, it matters not who for or how many pax or how far etc. You fly for yourself, you fly to be better everyday and search for the perfect flight. You pit your wits against the elements, the variables and contollables and you strive to master them. Whether you fly a Tornado, Cessna or airliner it's all the same. I liken it to yacht racing, anyone can go from A to B following the GPS but who can do it faster more accurately using less provisions and make it look easy. Yes I am very competitive, against myself, working well within the SOPs at all times but enjoying doing the job in my own style and making sure the pax enjoy a safe, smooth and effeicient ride at all times. Can anyone do that, no only those pilots who enjoy the challenge. Therefore it matters not where or what you fly as long as you enjoy it keep a sense of humour and never accept your second best.

Cloud Pilot so you’re saying if you want to build 3000 hours quick Ryanair is the best place? It seems like eventually they HAVE TO give you command as there are not enough experienced Captains at Ryanair?

In my last airline- I think you nailed it on the head. Different people have different preferences when it comes to flying. Some airline pilots may not want to fly a Tornado across the Atlantic at Mach 2 as they may feel air sick? Military flying is not for everyone. Personally I would much rather fly straight and level in the day and upside down at the weekends:ok:!

Give me an Extra 300L on the weekdays or weekends!:ok::E:ok:

captjns
 

you funny guy cptjns!loll!

captdivs, I am confused if I was you I would set my sights a little higher, why not aim for BA, Emirates or Cathay. And if you end up at Ryan then so be it, Im worried that if you aspire for Ryan and miss, you could end up flying rubber dog !!!!! out of Southend for years.

Aim high my boy, aim high.

DooblerChina
 

Of course i will set my heights higher- but i don't want to put all my eggs in one basket like many other wanabees.. you have to be realistic but ideally i would like to fly long haul for BA( like many pilots) did you get stuck in the !!!!ter in your early years as a pilot dooblerChina?

1. Don't bother with uni - complete waste of time if you're going to fly..
2. Learn correct grammer. Use of less compared to fewer for example. (That one is my pet hate)
3. Don't prostitute yourself at Ryanair. It's the bl00dy whorehouse of aviation. Paying for training, uniform, recurrent sim etc is undermining our profession - don't join the bloodsuckers!!

All that said - good luck:ok:

White knight
 

''1. Don't bother with uni - complete waste of time if you're going to fly..''

White Knight don't you think that is a bit of a vague statement. Of course university is not a waste of time, it matures you and teaches you priceless new skills. Plus a degree is always a good back up plan- anyone agree?

Regards.:ok:

I agree with Cptdivz. Joining a Univeristy is never a bad idea.:) Btw what course are you doing in University?

If you are certain you want to be a pilot for a living and are going to demonstrate that by paying £60000 + for your training then YES a degree is completely and utterly pointless. It is anyway, unless you want to be an engineer or a doctor etc. I know that when I decided to pay all of my money for training ACTUALLY becoming an airline pilot was the ONLY option. Forget the degree. If you want to get life skills before hand, join the military.

No, you sound like the Labour government......and it's once YOU'RE fully trained not your. I am not trying to be an ar*ehole but that is not acceptable.

If you, or your father, can afford both a university education PLUS a CPL/ATPL course, then you're a very fortunate young man.
For mere mortals, one or the other would be adequate. If you want to fly, really want to fly, then do it now, not in 2012. Either enrol in a school tomorrow or try the RAF.
If you want an University education, wait either until you need one due to redundancy or do what I did and wait until you're 45 and use the Open University! Although an adequately graded pass in Physics is merely something to hang on the wall rather than any practical use!

Few univeristies like Kingston actually gives training on PPL and ATPL + some engineering knowledge. I'm not exactly sure but you can find details on thier website. So it's not exactly like you go to university, get a degree in something else and then do you pilot training later. However, there aren't much univerisities that do pilot training, most of them that do tend to emphasise more towards engineering than the training.

Those degrees are pointless as well, if you want to be a pilot then do your training. Those degrees say to me that somebody can't make up their mind. Pick a route and stick with it whether it is being a pilot or not. Don't try and use some hybrid way of satisfying your dreams and your fears as a way in. It is weak and and a waste. Just decide.

TheBeak

are you off your rocker?

who cares if its your or you're or blah blah,,, you dont need 100% grammer as a pilot, would be nice as i (sorry I) cant spell for sh*% or use correct grammer, thats what MS Word is for when sending an important letter, as for when flying i always say the same, when the wings are on fire and your decending like a love sick bird in think soup ATC dont need you to spell MAY DAY! they know what you mean!

if grammer is what you want go be an english teacher.