Jetstream 41 - Romania
 

Heard (from an agency) there is to be some recruitment for J41 crews based in Romania. Any idea where these aircraft are coming from and which airline is involved?

Tha agency told me they would be coming from Eastern...

I for one am applying. Some years ago I flew the ATP, enjoyed the bird. Im flying the 330 now and being laid off very soon....i look forward to a real airplane, albeit its lack of power.
See you there!!:ok:

Have heard the name "Direct Aero Services" mentioned. Can't find a thing about them on the net. Anyone heard of them?

I guess Direct Aero Services may be a holding company or such like ?

I'm begining to seriously consider this job, out of desperation more than anything. So I would be very interested to get any views of

a) Blue-air as a company in general - standard of Ops and Engineering, Safety culture, Management etc etc., and

b) life as an expat in Romania - how easy/difficult is it to live there, english widely spoken ? Transport system (Bucharest/country in general) ? Standard of health care, economy (as it's a low cost operator I'll be feeding myself), getting a personal bank account or any none-resident type of problems ?

Yes I have searched, but very meagre pickings, so any offers gratefully accepted.

Thanks.

L8.

Don't know where you heard Blue Air. They are a lo-cost operating a handful of 737's.
More likely this would be in support of Carpatair, who recently down-sized (their aircraft & operation ) based not in Bucharest but Timisoara.
I may however be wrong, just surmising.

It is definitely Blue Air. As stated above Direct Aero Services must be a holding company. Terms and conditions leave a bit to be desired though. :(

Aerotaxi - Taximetrie aeriana

Part of Blueair, currently operating some helicopters and some small piston cessna 172s.

Cannot speak about the company (don't work there), but i can tell you a little about Bucharest:

English is widely spoken, the city is quite expensive to live in (rent for a single bedroom would be around 700-900 depending on location), transport is pretty bad (no highways and the number of cars increasing every year), health system is ok (if you have also some private health plan with a local company it can be very good) and finally about the bank account there is no problem if you are not a romanian or resident (you just cannot apply for a credit).

Hope it helps, good luck :ok:

It's related to Blue Air, but not started by Blue Air. Blue Air is owned by Romstrade, a construction firm. They own the Direct Air AOC, which I believe is now limited to just some helicopters and King Air's used on charters and Romanian post contracts. Blue Air, again through affiliates, is also getting into the airport management business in Romania.

Jetstream 41 -- ROMANIA
 

Hi guys,
I have the job description in my hand, and I´m starting to consider to apply for this position. If anyone has any doubt you can ask me.

Thanks

Linza
:O

I agree the salary (assuming the stated number is correct) is a joke. However, it seems a bit unfair to call Rumania a third world country. Yes, there is lot's of poverty and the rural areas are still decades behind the west but Bucarest has most things you would expect from a first world capital.

So lets make that a first worldcapital and a thirld world country, sorted:ok:

Whilst they will no doubt get a number of desperate pilots take up these terms, what they have obviously failed to grasp is that as soon as these pilots get a better offer elsewhere they will be off (one months notice). And the 12 month reducing bond will hardly be a deterrent. Leaving Blue Air/Direct Aero Services with un-crewed aircraft. Unless of course there is something in the contract with Eastern Airways that says Eastern will provide them with crews under such circumstances. I think Eastern are very keen to offload these excess to requirement aircraft, so they may well have offered some contingency crews where necessary. I also note from PPJN that Eastern starting pay is £36455 for LHS as opposed to this Blue Air contract of €28000 - the only disadvantage of Eastern by comparison is a three year bond.

733 driver, agreed with "most things" ,but unfortunately that also includes prices, particularly when you are identified as a foreigner.
I am led to believe that accomodation is provided (don't know of what standard ) but happyjack, agreed, the salary is a pi$$-take.
The problem is, in the current employer-biased times, they will have no shortage of takers.

Probably the most worthwhile suggestion I have seen on "Terms & Endearments " for some time. :ok: :D :rolleyes:

happyjack ...romania is not a 3rd world country....don't belive everything you see on TV....came here and see for yourself...ofcourse, i can't compare romania with other country from western europe....for obvios reasons i won't go into details...a lot of good things happend in romania after '89....if you have any questions i am happy to aswer...
anyway...i also applied for tis job...as a first officer...but for the moment they don't have captains ....and happyjack....who knows maybe we will meet in romania...drink a few beers and talk about beautiful places from here....;)

Bucharest is not exactly a beautiful city, in fact its a dump... and one of the few places in the Europe their seems to be animosity towards foreigners. I recall the travel channel (?) did a story on the country that was universally well received except by the Romanians... in Bucharest you will be ripped off at EVERY opportunity. The Women can be beautiful, but arrogant and unapproachable. Rental prices are TOTALLY unrealistic (a bit like Moscow but at least Moscow has some class). Tried a few years ago to style itself as the "Clubbing Capital of Europe" - laughable at best delusional at worse.

I can think of far better places to live... even Luton.

Not been there myself but know several people who have (lived there helping orphans etc and not just for hols).

Gather English speakers are scorned even if they try and speak the lingo - locals aren't friendly regarding this and will ignore if tense and pronunciation and gender aren't absolutely correct - worse than the pprune spellcheckers. Bit like France used to be 30+ years ago, thankfully now the French like most of Europe welcome our feeble attempts at speaking their lingo and acknowledge we are doing our best. Romania by all accounts this is not true.

PS How about Aberdeen!

And for Dannutz - what is the local beer like? Bet it's not real ale but more lagerish?

...you are right ....it's not real ale....but it is quite good ....depends on everyone's taste

Yep, the local beer is more like a lager or pilsener. It is not bad. I have also not felt ripped of in Bucarest. The beggars are a nuicance though. I have been to the historic center of town which has some nice enough places to hang out. The menues are availabe in English, still, prices are very reasonabe. I would go as far as saying dirt cheap. I do agree that housing is too expensive but that is also true for the locals who are having a hard time on the local salaries. I spoke to a few locals (all of them in aviation) an they all have been helpful and friendly and I don't speak a word of the language. I flew as a pax (in uniform) on Blue Air the other day and got chatting to the cabin crew. I asked them if the taxies at the airport would accept Euros and how much I should pay for the trip to the hotel and they offered to give me a lift. Had a friendly chat with them on the way and when they dropped me off I tried to give em a bit of money for the fuel and they would not accept it. One of them said that they don't like the gypsies because they give Romania a bad name etc. but apart from that they seemed very oppen and that includes foreigners. If you read this guys , thanks again!

they are a lot of better places to live then romania....but 3rd world country i think is too much said ;) ....let's end this here, and talk about jetstream 41 :)...i am curious to find out new things about this a/c...especially training...thx

Seems to be a risky time to expand an airline, anyone know what sort of routes they will be operating?

If the aircraft are coming from Eastern, I would guess that eastern will be providing the training as well, possibly engineering and some flight crew support in the early stages. There are only two J41 simulators, one at Humberside with Eastern, and the other in the USA.

There are some aircraft manuals here:

thx horsebox...

Happyjack,

"What kind of "professional" invests £100k on their future and then leaves their wife, children and home to work for peanuts in an expensive rented (probably shared) flat in a country they would never choose to even visit?"

I'm seriously considering this and if offered the opportunity will probably take it up. I didn't invest £100k on my future - I washed aeroplanes and cut the grass at a flying club to help pay for flying lessons, and after 22 years of full time employment as a pilot (with a suitable number of flying hours to match) and having flown in the left hand seat of piston, turboprop and jet aircraft of varying sorts I find myself unemployed and receiving £60 per week in job seekers allowance, hence I have time to sit and post this.

I would be interested to know how you decide that flying a J41 in Romania will make me somehow less professional than flying a 737 in Spain? I would also be very pleased to know which pub it is that you can earn 2800 Euros per month in, most of the pubs where I live are paying minimum wage to bar staff at the moment, and none of the ones I have tried have any vacancies at the moment anyway...

Lately I see many pilot openings in Eastern Europe and I was wondering how is that possible when the whole world goes through some tough time? I have tried to explain myself this economic nonsense. The only conclusion I was able to come up with is that countries such as Romania, with total lack of economy, still has some money given by EU left to spend. All this money have been derailed to local mafia which now is trying to make a profit out of it. They have no clue how to run a business but they have the money and try to cover themselves with some business plans hoping to make more money. According to aviation's principle where you need to spend 100 dollars to make one dollar, probably their stolen money will go fast, so the guys getting a job on those places will be on the streets again soon. So these jobs might be futile anyway. :ugh:

If the rumour of 4 aircraft is true, and in the current climate, I reckon it must be some sort of highly secure contract work that has been won. Someone mentions earlier in the thread that the parent company already does Post flights?

Either a pax service for a government agency, or they will be taking the seats out and moving parcels and mailbags.....

Agency info talks about morning and afternoon pax flights and a cargo flight in the evening finishing before midnight.....and for each pilot 80 block flying hours per month.

Ehm, after checking with Wiki, there's almost 2mil of Romani/Gypsies/Travellers which is about 9%, but stats are never great, likely to be more.

Well, being 'from the region' I dare to say that Romania and its population has Romas inherent to that society. Much more than other Central European or Balkan countries. There's not that big difference in the looks, whether more 'Turkish' or 'Greek' looks or Roma/Gypsy.

Well, average/sort of middle class and if anything below, population feels that way just by living in the country. You can't compare expat salaries for everywhere. They definitely are more than reasonable for local price levels.

Some Romanian travellers already having travelled to the UK and Ireland and exported these traditions to cities here. Whole gangs/families.

excrab is right.
Pro flying job is just that. If what they could offer doesn't suit you, why complaining, just forget it. 'Western salaries' aren't worldwide for that reason. If some Asian airlines need expats and can shell out for decent salaries, why not.

Although my experience is mainly negative regarding Romania or Bulgaria and their nationals, there's lots of bad apples everywhere and if one went by the experience of, say Czech expats/illegals in the USA, they'd conclude that the country's full of convicts..

You guys can't forget that the 'further away' you go from Western Europe and Med tourist destinations, the less foreigners actually living in those countries. Whether more of a novelty, or opportunity to rip them off.

I do remember 'tourist rates' in Central Europe that were 3-4x higher for Austrians, Germans etc (hotels, services, tourism) as mere mortal local wouldn't afford it and local rates would be laughably low for Westerners.

End of rant. Get a grip.

That's a bit racist mate. Going through London someone hardly can see a local. Everyone is Pakistani or Indian. Does that mean British people are Indians?

ROMA is a generic term for gypsies/romany. But it is also the name of a city in Italy. ROME - ROMA - CAPITAL of ITALY. (Ya know, where Vatican is..etc..etc.).Pff....('')

Romani (as gypsies call themselves, sometimes with an "i", sometimes with a "y" at the end, and generic "ROMA"), is also the term used to describe the inhabitants of a country called ROMANIA, the last country to bear the name of the old ROMAN EMPIRE.
In the Romanian language: "Romani" means Romanians. Natives of ROMANIA, a EU member nation.

To the uneducated citizens of Europe and the rest of the world it seems very easy to confuse the ROMANIANS (native inhabitants of Romania since at least the ROMAN EMPIRE times, A.D. 100), with ROMA/ROMANI/Y, an ethnic population/race which migrated towards Europe around A.D. 1322.

In view of the recent events in Italy, one needs to be aware of the fact that gypsies assumed the name of ROMA/ROMANI/Y, therefore creating the confusion between the name of ROMANIA and ROMANIANS (the native inhabitants of ROMANIA), and ROMA/ROMANI/Y.

This was highly premeditated by the gypsies(natives of India) and had, as end result, confused Europe and the rest of the world.

If it is ROMA and ROMANI, they must come from ROMANIA, and therefore all ROMANIANS are gypsies. Whatta GAS !!..Oh boy !

Not only do gypsies identify with ROMANIA, but also with ROMA, Italy, therefore 2(two) countries are affected - Romania and Italy.

If gypsies call themselves ROMA, they must come from ROME, Italy. Right?

Also it is true they run that country. They are the politicians and the new mafia. They got all this power after the second war when no locals wanted to join the commies, so the ruskies replaced the locals with gypsies. In a way the Romanians are strangers in their own country. Kind like Native-Americans here. I traveled through Romania and although a first impression is screwed, once you travel deep country and get to know real locals they are wonderful and noble people. Real descedents of Romans.

The Soros Foundation is the author of this stupid invention called Roma integration decade. In fact, the only thing they wanted to get was to "grant" gypsies with a fake European identity. The victim was easy to find and easy to double-cross: the new and tormented state, with a new and confused democracy: Romania speacially being the only original locals and everybody else is a migrator in Europe, such as Bulgarians, Yogoslavians, Hungarians, Ukrainians.
Gipsies are from India and are among the last migrating people in Europe. They are very protected by UN
Rome and Romania, Roman Emperors, Byzantine Emperors, etc.

Countbat,

Thank you for the history lesson, 90 percent and the idea behind it - very correct.
One little thing though.. Romania is not run by gipsies, that is untrue. It is run by Romanians, by all means. The regions where gipsies are a majority are scarce. Population of Romania is about 22 milion, out of which, the minorities are spread as follows:
aprox 6.6% Hungarians, 2.5% gipsies and under 0.5% of other nationalities like Germans, Turks, Ucranians, etc.
Yes, gipsies are a big problem, because they are not civilised by any means and the former communist regime did a bad job regarding them as you correctly said in your post. On the other part, we are in the EU and it would be hard, impossible and politically incorect to send them all to where they came from hundreds of years ago. (although many many would like that very much indeed)
And yes, I say it again, they are a big problem. But one should not fall in the trap and think Romania is gypsyland and that you will get robbed at every step.
If you follow tourist-in-a-foreign-country common sense, Romania can be a pleasurable experience. You can get robbed on the streets of Berlin or Amsterdam or London or Bruselles or Dublin or Madrid or Paris, you name it.

There are a great deal (keeping the proportion) of foreign, western European pilots currently flying in Romania and enjoying it very much.

As for the more or less dubious financing of the Eastern European aviation companies and the fact that they need pilots, that is another matter. Think about the fact that unlike western Europe, the East has poor infrastructure and air travel started appeal to many, especially with the recent years drop in ticket prices. In Romania alone, there are 22 milion people spread on a surface as big as the UK, with just 1-5% of the infrastructure of the UK. Air travel can actually be a good business in Eastern Europe these days. And yes, the local companies probably are at an advantage, starting by knowing the local 'habits', but that is true for any country, don't you think?
So I would not necesarily follow the advice of those saying 'don't go and fly in Romania'. As it had been said here, it might not be everyone's cup of tea, but for those who feel allright here, it might just be a decent job like any other.
And one more myth I feel necessary to brake. It is not true that pilot jobs in Romania are poorly paid. While not at par with the Western majors, the pay is decent -in the range og 2-3K EUR per month for an FO and 3.5-6 K EUR per month for a Capt- and one can surely make a good living out of it.
Sorry for the long post, but many untrue things have been said here and I am under the impression that they have been said with little to none local knowdlege whatsoever.

Happy Jack,

Ok I apologise, I've done the maths and you're right.

Working 70 hours a week in the pub I could earn £2800 per month. Thats 10 hours work a day 7 days a week. I'm not sure where I'm going to get to fit in a normal life though. Unless I decide to work 5 on 2 off in the pub. That would make it better, except that on my 5 days on I'm going to have to work 14 hours a day. I might have done it when I was 18, but I'm not going to do it now, if I had wanted to work hard i wouldn't have become a pilot.

We obviously have different expectations at the moment. You have decided to turn it down, as you say in your first post. I have decided to look at it, and if I should get an interview I can ask the questions and see what is being offered and make a decision. However the contract terms I have seen don't appear that bad (certainly not as bad as you say in your first post). To me it seems a fair renumeration for flying a small turboprop, based on the number of hours they are asking for from non-type rated pilots. It isn't jobs like this that have destroyed the industry, it is SSTRs from Easyjet, Ryan air and CTC.

I thought this thread was about a jet41 job in eastern europe,silly me.

You are welcome. I just spent some time in that country with my wife while she was doing some charity work. I tried to make the best of it. Now, if gypsies are more than 2 millions, that make'em 10%, if we consider country's population 22 millions.
During my period there I tried to understand the non senses going on, the lack of local culture and intensive imitation of what's understood of western culture special American, extremely poverty among ordinary people, extremely over night rich few, bad manners and everybody's tendency to get something out of you, lack of work ethics. The only viable explanation I was able to get was from some very nice locals who explained to me what I posted earlier. They told me the real locals have been marginalized and the country is run by foreigners, special urbanized gypsies. Although they don't look anymore like traditional gypsy image, they are the ones robbing the country dry, impoverishes the locals, creating the Mafia and politicians. If I am wrong I apologize.
However I know 3 American investors friends who lost all their money in Romania to local habits. When someone is asking me how good of idea is to invest in that country I always say NO, if they care for their money. Personally I tried to start an historic project north of the country where V Legio Macedonica was stationed but I was stopped and asked for extremely outrages high bribes for something which they would have benefited anyway.
I also strongly believe UE is wrong giving money to that country because everything is, like I said, derailed to few mafia and politicians pockets. Sorry for locals. They don't deserve this.

Good point. Sorry.

It aint happening boys. No cash.:}