BA 747 rostering
 

Hi guys, can anybody flying for BA as a (junior) F/O on the 747 tell me what their roster is like? how many D/O per month? how many days is one trip? how many SBYs? Is it easy to make your own roster and do you usualy get what you've asked for? (guess not if junior?) if not do you get at least some weekends per month? roster stability? all those things......just to get an idea? thanks

Smells fishy to me, jealous girlfriend, curious reporter?

Altho not junior, having flown wth guys who are i think the rosters for junior guys will include a fair mixture of trips.

You would get a Blind Line most months, meaning that most trips would be allocated to you from the trips no one else bid for. But one trip would be chosen assuming you were able to get a seeded BL. That will mean you will be working most weekends, but you can request them off, altho thats just a preference. As for days off, well that varies depending on what kind of trips you get, and how clever you are in placing your seeded trip, but will be around 10 - 14 days. If you're looking for an airline that doesn't work too hard, look elsewhere!

There aren't that many 2 crew trips on the fleet, but you will get a fair share of the ones there are.
I'd guess you would generally get Naritas, NY's, LA's, Lagos', and Washingtons. Having said that anything is possible on Blind lines and the fleet contains a huge variation of trips.

All in all it's a great fleet to be on, and doesn't have many unpopular trips.

All the best.

Edited to add that roster stability is very good, had just 2 trips changed in 9 years.

10 to 14 D/O, I would have expected a little more. thanks for the info. No worries no curious reporter or angry girlfriends here. just checking what the roster 's like.
thanks.
any other info from others still welcome.

Juniorish 744 Capt here - 'fraid 10 -14 days off a month sounds about right for a Blindline holder, as does working most/every weekend. Don't forget you will also get days off downroute at some destinations...wether that floats your boat or not is another matter - depends on the destination ( Narita anybody :}:} )......

I feel reasonably well informed having spent 3 1/2 years 18 from the bottom of the co pilots list! Only just started moving up and rosters are good.

Its been fine, very rarely get blind lines, work most weekends, but i'm prepared to do that to get decent trips. Blind lines are great for a tactical weekend but to be honest if you're very junior you'll only get the rubbish blind lines (NRT, LAX etc) so you're better off taking a trip line. Multiple weekends off in a month is a problem, but not insurmountable. Lots of people swap trips regularly and you'll be surprised what pops up there. Weekend trips are often more fun (junior captains and fos more to do downroute etc). Theres much less stratification of trips on the FOs rosters than the Capts as majority of good trips have 2 fos but 1 capt. For example every night BA have 24 fos at some point on a HKG trip but only 16 on JFKs.

Most of the trips are fine, I think we're a bit spoilt compared to the junior 777 boys. Looking back over the last few years i've averaged 1 2man trip each month (JFK most often) 2 3 man (generally a 4 day and a 3 day) and 1 4man (HKG or GRU usually, SIN is senior), but in last 6 months i've only done 2 x 2 crew and more 4 crew than 3. Average 13 days off, 10 would be an extremely busy month and you'd be putting lots of hours in the bank if you were bidding well.

However if you do need weekends you will a, spend your life on the E coast and b, work on average 1-2 days more per month due the lack of hours these trips accrue.

Roster stability wise, you almost never get disrupted, but you'll have to do 1 standby month per year. However this is an excellent chance to pick up some great trips at the second stage of bidding so is not all bad.

pm me if you want more info.

Nothing wrong with NRT, well nothing that ASAHI cant cure.

hi peeke,

just curious, have you landed a direct entry f/o B744 with BA? I thought they were only recruiting for the A320 / B737. If so I might be interested in applying.

There'll be around 90 DEP 744 positions this year and 40 777.

Is time to command on 747/777 still in the region of 15-20years?

Yes but short haul commands are down to 7 years and the long haul expansion should bring 787 or similar down to 12ish

Ok thanks. If you join as DEFO on 747, can you move after lets say 5 years to 320 and get a good chance for the command within a few years in that case?

Are command transfers on overall seniority or fleet seniority?

cheers

CT

p.s. i thought the 787 were mainly just going to be replacements for 767 and 777 serving quieter routes rather than expansion

Just a thought ?
 

Just a thought guys

What sort of relationship do you have with your rostering/ops staff ? Do you have any idea the stresses/strains that they have to deal with everyday. Moaning crew uninformed fleet management and the day-in-day out operational crap which they have NO imput but have to deal with BALPA/BA nonse ?
Spare a thought they/we do hav family/lives/mortages etc

Controller: don't worry it will be much better when all the new systems come in to play.

Would have thought that an ability do deal with uninformed management and moaning crew came with the job? Or would you prefer the phone never rang?

Not sure what is BALPA 'nonse', most crews are onside and keen to get the job done (industrial action notwithstanding of course :} )

You could but you'd be certifiable! Pay cut to go RHS Airbus! Theres no requirement to do Right to Left on Type at all, Command course can be with the type rating. Just stay on the 74 until your command comes up

As for the 787s well the first few are expansion (cant remember the numbers 8 rings a bell) before they start replacing 767s, also the 4 new 777s in 2009, although i suspect 1 aircraft will be used as a replacement for YMM until the New club fit is complete.

How about part time
 

Hey there ,read your thread and was just wondering wether BA offers part time contracts, or parental pt right after employment.
Didn´t apply yet, but strongly thinking of.
i now have around 7000 hrs total (prop and jet command),do they employ you as junior f/O or already a few stages up the ladder, and what would the average salary be then?
Thanks for info

Best regards:)

You could but you'd be certifiable! Pay cut to go RHS Airbus! Theres no requirement to do Right to Left on Type at all, Command course can be with the type rating. Just stay on the 74 until your command comes up

But to clarify you said SH command is maybe only 7 years, whereas longhaul is lets say 15 for arguments sake? So if you were to move after year 5 from 74 to 320, would be a paycut in the first instance but if you got the left seat 2 years later im sure it would work out plus you could possibly transfer back at a later stage as a captain?

cheers

captain_toga
 

Nope, it's not the money...I think part of the point my esteemed colleagues may be making is:
Right hand 744 to Right Hand A320 means:
Transferring from LHR Longhaul to LHR Shorthaul yet no pay rise means:
Certifiable

The way to do it would be to sit in the RHS of a 400 for 7 years until senior enough to get LHS A320. The only reason you'd go to the RHS of an Airbus from the Jumbo would be to get used to the Airbus/Shorthaul pre-command. However there is no requirement and people have, do and will just go RHS 747to LHS Airbus. It's all about seniority numbers. If you have the seniority, aren't frozen and there are vacancies you will get what you bid for.

Hotel mode en co. Thanks a lot for all that info. I have a course comming up indeed. Didn't expect to get a call anymore anyway as I was approaching the year in the hold pool. It all looks nice and I'm looking forward to get started.

sickBocks

So you are saying that to get command is completely a matter of seniority irrelevant of fleet as long as a vacancy exists you can go to left seat - even if you never flew the type before (of course this happens in many airlines taking Direct Entry Captains)

Would there be any instance whereby it would be quicker, as you say, to sit 7 years on RHS of 400, go to LHS 320 and then through seniority be able to bid back to the LHS of the 400 (or equivalent) at a later stage rather than just sit and wait your turn on the 400.

Is it genuine that command time will drop on the LH fleet in the future or is this just "pie in the sky". Of course for some guys command isn't a priority and for others it is but just trying to get a realistic picture.

Time to command in BA is determined by seniority alone.

Currently the most junior commands are at LGW (737 becoming Airbus) followed by the Airbus at LHR. LH commands are the most senior with the 777 being perhaps marginally more so than the 747 at present.

Which route you take to command depends on you to a large extent.

If say a LHR airbus command would take 10 years, it makes no difference if you say spent 10 yrs RHS 747 or 5 years RHS LHR Airbus followed by 5 years LHS LGW Airbus. Type changes are usually subject to a 4 yr freeze.

The difference is lifestyle.

Regards

Oi ;) Hotel Mode Elderley 747 Captain here. You couldn't have had more fun than I did in HKG last week :eek: You don't have to be under 40 to enjoy this fleet..........Peeke hope to see you on line soon (strikes permitting ) and bring your golf clubs.............and "something for the weekend" :oh:

dj-M.75,

No matter what your previous experience, you will join at the bottom of the seniority list with 2 stripes and on pay point 1. Having larger jet time obviously makes you more suitable to go straight on to a longhaul fleet but other than that, I'm afraid you dont join any higher up the ladder.

Fair comment! Some of the best trips are with the top of the list guys it was unfair to generalise!

And it is impossible to have more fun than in HKG. :uhoh:

I think there's some confusion as to BA's seniority list system.

When you join you are given a number in date of joining order about 3300 probably at the moment, this will get changed annually as people retire/leave so next year you might be 3250 etc etc. This is the only thing that matters for bidding to other fleets, so long as you are out of freeze and your seniority number is high enough you will get a course. Your seniority in your current fleet isnt relevent for this. There are guys 50 from the bottom of the 747 FO list who have commands this year because A320 commands at LGW are down to 2540 ish.

There are only 3 things that matter in BA

Seniority
Seniority
Seniority

in that order ;)

Daft question probably, but I'm flying 2 crew short / medium haul so no idea how the Long Haul thing works.
What happens in a 3 or 4 man trip? who does what? Is one (or 2) of the FO's a 'cruise relief' pilot for the whole trip or is the handling for all the T/o and landing divvied out between all the FO's? Is it rostered before hand or does the captain decide who does what in the briefing room?

Its rostered. You'll either be cruise pilot outbound or inbound, normally only 1 of the FOs will get a landing though. Often the Capts are generous and give both away. 4 man crews have 2 capts and 2 fos each working as a crew normally one crew operate out the other back.

On the -400 there is a proper rest area with 2 bunks. On a 4-man, take an hour or so off the flight time and divide the remainder in 2, that's your rest.

It's not quite as good as it sounds always - try sleeping through turbulence! A long flight (HKG, GRU, SIN) can be very tiring. Your body clock gets shot to pieces after a few months. I'm quite fed up of listening to the wife snoring all night, then finally dropping off to be woken by the postman, binman etc etc.

Overstress, the binman and postman only get into your bed when you are away....:)

Other than what hotel mode has said the only difference is how much inflight rest you get in the bunks, 2 man, obviously none and those routes are limited to sectors of up to around 7-8 hrs.

3 man, the majority of trips on the jumbo, gives you around 3-3.5 hrs rest,the "heavy" crew member usually taking the first break from shortly after t/o and then on duty for the rest of the flight until around an hour before landing when the operating crew take over again for the landing.

4 man, at the moment HKG, SIN, GRU, BKK only, 2 full crews, its up to the operating crew exactly how they want to work the rest but its usually around 6hrs rest for each crew.

Who does what is all rostered and you soon get a personel preference as to whether or not you prefer being heavy inbound or outbound, that said its not uncommon for guys to swap around at the briefing stage.

What do you mean by 'heavy' inbound and outbound?

BWB

Hi guys
Can anyone just clarify - are the routes for 744 and 777 very similar or do they vary quite significantly?
And with regards to overtime, how easy it is to get an overtime trip? Heard a rumour you can log on somewhere and just drag and drop....:confused:

I've got the sim stage in a month so really keen on passing it - over 2000hrs so looking like 744 or 777 perhaps?? so any info would help massively!
Cheers

The Heavy refers to the extra pilot in the cruise.

The big difference between the 747 and 777 is that the 777 out of a fleet of 47 only has 15 aircraft with bunks, only some of which have first class. This will increase with the 4 new orders but as all 57 747s have bunks they will be the mainstay of the Long range trips (10hrs ish +) until the 380s and 787s arrive in 2012. The 777 has some nice work in the Caribbean and SIN SYD if you like that but you wont see much of either at the bottom of the list.

The other big plus on the 747 is seeded blind lines. This means that although at the first stage your roster is blank to be filled up by rostering after everyone elses bids, there is one (long range) trip already there. This guarantees your days off either side so are perfect for that vital weekend when you're too junior to get it off any other way. The 777 just has blank blind lines so you've really got no say in your eventual roster at all.

The drag and dropping of open trips is coming in in the next few months so we dont really know the details yet.

Heavy is the term given to the extra crew members, usually the extra first officer but in the case of a 4 man crew the heavy would refer to the extra capt and fo.

inbound/outbound was refering to in or out of london.

everybody is different, but most people cant for example sleep for 3 hrs at 7pm, which is what you would be trying to do if you were heavy on say the early Jo'burg, or at midday on a USA west coast.

I dont mind being heavy on daylight sectors out of the uk, but on night sectors middle or last break will break the flight up a bit and usually give me a better chance of sleeping.
Some guys like last break into LHR because they may have a longdrive home etc etc.
Everyones different and you will soon learn what suits you and try and bid for trips accordingly.

As for destinations, east coast of the USA they both do a bit, with the 74 doing the majority of the JFK.
The 744 does all the major cities, SFO, LAX,HKG,SIN,CPT,JNB,GRU etc and apart from SIN for the time being the 777 does none of these. Its hard to pick up a 74 roster without at least one of these destinatiions on it. The 777 has some great LGW beach destinations and although it does do some nice cities eg. Shangai it also has alot of lower hour shorter trips like Tel aviv and kuwait so at the bottom of the seniority list you are unlikely to see some of these better destinations.
I'd say on average 4 trips a month for the 747 and 5 on the 777.

I don't know, I'm quite fond of an afternoon snooze - even on a 2 man! :}

Fruitbat: now I know why I'm not getting any (at home ;) )

Which BA 747 flights are 3 man and which are 4 man?

Cheers,

BWB

4 man HKG,SIN,GRU,BKK
2 man JFK,BOS,ORD,YYZ,DXB,IAD
3 man...Everything else - usa/canada west coast, south africa, india, maritius etc

A few other matters,,
 

Hi guys,

About the 747 rostering, A few other matters not covered but important to many of us, Thankyou in advance

1-Can you fly part-time? for ie, 2 routes instead of 4 a month,

2-Which are the routes that after completing a way and return to base least affect you in terms of jet lag, maybe the African routes??

3-What is it with stby time, how far away can you be from airport, time, etc, and is it for a whole month a year?

4-How many days do you spend in a given destination, is it minimum rest? could you choose to spend more or less time at destination,

5-Maybe its mentioned, but to clarify, can they allocate you days off at destination ports?

6-Are there any go and return in the same day routes with the 747?

7-What are the routes which best allow you to commute with a minimum spending time/not sleeping the day before in the heathrow area, and are they difficult to bid? (any commuters can answer accordingly to this)

8-For similar reasons as the one before, say you have or bid a JFK, is there any chance of also bidding for the latest/earliest one of the day?

Now for a bit of time at the flightdeck

1- what is your general satisfaction from handling the 747, do you feel as if the SOPs let you handle alot of manual flying. Or is it very strict?

2-for f/o´s : Whats your GENERAL impression of skippers in BA, tough, easygoing, rather demanding, friendly ?

3-Hows the general mood in a long haul flights, is it relaxed, are you going to be on the mouth by others if you take out say a magazine or reading book?

other comments appreciated, thanks

B.F

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