Who wouldn't want the opportunity to fly 3-5 of the nicest, most-advanced aircraft types (e.g., A319, 777 and 744) over the span of their career to exotic destinations all over the world? Sounds like a good opportunity to me - I'd be signing up if I could.... .. .And don't forget Peter, you won't even have the remote possibility of flying the CONCORDE at EasyJet........... .. .Ciao

For all those who continue to carp over our ‘massive’ remuneration package, I would like to point out one or two realities:. .. .- We are required to live and work within 1h45 of LHR or LGW which places us in the most expensive part of the country, as confirmed even today by another national survey. Those on the B scale or new joiners are by no means enjoying a lavish lifestyle, believe me.. .. .- Before the idiot Ayling arrived the company was turning over between £7bn and £9bn a year, the business was carefully geared and more or less appropriately staffed. We made a handsome profit, in 1997 £553m after tax.. .. .- We operate in a market with discerning and wealthy customers who want a little more than cheap and cheerful, and have the means to pay IF they get value for money.. .. .If you don’t wish to work for a company like this, and are not prepared to help those like me who are determined to drag this airline back to where it belongs, despite its crassly inept management, then please feel free to apply for another job where you might feel more at home.. .. .Judging by many of your remarks, we will have a tough time recruiting?. .. . <img src="http://www.80scartoons.8k.com/roobarb10wee.gif" alt="" />

Why are so many old farts in avaition so negative, I suppose you would point to some pointless out of date happening to prove your wisdom.. .. .Well, catch this... BA for someone in their early 20's is a magic place to be. Level of training, equipment, benefits are fantastic. In 10 years this company will be a world leader. The PP24 generation will have retired, as will most of the bitter old and expensive CC. The new (cheap and better looking) CC and the dashing young flightcrew, will happily carry you bitter old farts on holiday with a smile.. .. .What goes around comes around, and with 30 years left to go, the futures bright and it isn't all orange. There are masses who feel like me, just most of us aren't bored enough to air our views here every evening.. .. .All positive and ambitious applicants are most welcome, ignore the rubbish stated previously. Goodluck.

fruitbat. Nice idea.... hope you are right!

I can confirm that most of the DEP's already in the hold pool during Sept 11th have been offered courses, mostly Airbus, all but a very few have decided to wait for their original long haul slot to come up, which may well be some time. But they have a seniority number and are being paid full basic pay and doing odd jobs around Compass, ie. ex Midland Capt's spending 12 hour days fixing the printers at checkin ! (At least BA honoured their contracts, whilst many airlines were laying people off).. .. .I gave up 6 years seniority with another airline to come to BA in my mid 30's. Its not the great panacea that many people think, don't come with rose tinted spectacles ! BUT it does offer an excellent career structure with above all an excellent final salary pension (I have not heard its gone ?) and retirement at age 55.. .. .What other airline at the very least gives you preferences over rostering choices ? absolute roster stability ? Plus the opportunity to fly a myraid of types and retire as say a 777 captain ?. .With the bulk of the reirement bulge still to come its still the place for long term stability if you are under say 35......... .your's Nigel !. . . . <small>[ 08 March 2002, 11:55: Message edited by: mfds ]</small>

Fruitbat in short....bitter experience! That generally makes most of the old timers a tad cynical. . .. .Secondly given the cost of buying a house in the SE I just do not see new entrant pilot's enjoying the lifestyle that some suggest BA has to offer.. .. .There is something in the fact that over the next few years there will be a considerable retirement of flight and cabin crew which will do something to change the current culture. . .. .But, before you sign on take a close look at the debts and problems BA has to sort out eg working practices allowances etc. It is likely to make for a very "bumpy" ride. . .Regards BP

I sincerely hope BA does carry on. . .. .I'm half way through the ATPL theory (ouch). . .. .Speaking to a TRE i know he told me that camping BA's doorstep wouldn't be such a bad thing. If the level of training and the variety stays somewhat similar (yes i'm aware they are trying to cut types) I wouldn't mind changing my name to nigel.

I hope BA gets back on its feet and starts recuiting more pilots. There can be nothing better for the industry if 3500(?) pilots are kept gainfully employed on good salaries. I've always admired BA and up until a year ago I wanted to work for them, had the application form but never did anything with it.. .. .The following is not a dig at BA but in response to Superstalls assumptions I offer the following...... .. .To the assertion that a BA pilot will earn a considerable higher salary than his peers the answer isn't a straight forward yes. In my old airline someone did a study into **** v BA, taking factors into account such as seniority, time to command, pension etc and with the current BA package you had to leave **** by 32 to derive any benefit. The BA package is not what it once was, a pilot in a medium sized jet operation in the UK can normally achieve command in 3-5 years and then can go onto top scale within 15 years and take home around £90k. A lot of operators offer sector pay which can generate £60-100 in sector pay, add in £20 for a night stop allowance and a 3 day trip becomes very profitable! . .. .Of course you can earn a fortune as a long haul Captain but that is not for everyone! Ever been permanently fatigued? Each to their own though...... .. .Lifestyle is a very personal thing but to find somewhere decent these days within 1hr 45min of LHR or LGW is very difficult. It's even worse if you have a family. The further out you live from LHR the more compromises you're making on your lifestyle. The assertion that BA pilot's have better control of your lifestyle is tosh, by basing yourselves in the middle of the most expensive part of the UK you've already hindered your lifestyle. So what are your options? Live 1 hour away and sit on the motorway (dead time) or commute from the regions and either live in a B&B for your working week or nightstop continuously - so who's controlling your lifestyle now?. .. .You go to many different destinations, fly many different types and have fantastic staff travel but that's not much good if you're living in a 2 bed semi/terrace in a hole whilst trying to give your family a decent standard of living!. .. .That all said if they improved the package considerably (and I sure hope they do), gave a firm commitment to those regional bases still open then it would get my vote. I still think it would be fantastic to work for them but your assumption the BA package is vastly superior to that of everyone else is a little wide of the mark, but I'm past 32 so it won't worry me!

The rumour I have heard is that BA will not need a large number of pilots between now and October 2004, due to the current fleet changes and the rate of retirement. Any vacancies that arise will probably be filled by current trainees and the odd recruitment for a DEP.. .. .However, if BA need pilots in October 2004, and if they plan to continue with the sponsorship scheme then trainees will need to start courses in April 2003, which in turn means recruitment will need to start in late 2002!. .. .This sounds possible to me. But then again I am an optimist!. .. .Also, who cares about the money! As long as I have a roof, a car and enough food, a career as a pilot (my life-long dream) would be a million times better than a 9-5 jobs which I dislike!

Yes but after two years of training on no salary then joining on CEP rates you'll be lucky to afford a roof, a car and food when you're living in London!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

Mr Orange,. .. .Bit OTT.. .. .I live in a great Hampshire village in the country which is 35 min drive from LHR out of rush hour and no more than 1 hr in it.. .. .It is no more expensive than W Sussex and I believe my life-style is great. I am junior in the Company but I can vouch that I have much more control over my life than I did with my previous employer (a well respected charter operator).. .. .Bc

Well Big Pants.......you sure are an unhappy bunny. .why not leave and make room for someone who genuinely wants to work for BA !. .. .Though I guess it at least gives you something to moan about!!. .. .not ex-military are you ??

B clam - Well said !. .. .Its not for everyone, but many pilots from many airlines are based at LHR, and live in nice areas within 30 miles from there on normal airline pilots salaries.. .. .At BA on shorthaul 99% of the report times are outside of rush hour.. .. .BA's bidline although favouring seniority still gives some choice of days off and trips, and even a normal type of airline roster (blindline) has the option of preferences.. .. .A far cry from my previous life and most other operators - I have never had a roster change that wasn't cancelling my trip .... at least my roster on paper is still the same at the end of the month. The standard of hotels is first rate and even the crew meals streets ahead. No running around airports to find met rooms and printing off your own notams, its all done for you at BA ........ . .. .Things could be worse at BA (the people who complain are the ones who haven't worked for another airline and seen what it can be like !).

Heard today that BA may be short of SIM capacity this summer so there may be an opening for DEP's who are 320 qualified. .. .best of luck to those waiting

Below the Line....we all wanted to join BA and we all walked through the door with our happy smiley faces thinking BA was the Be All!. .. .Well several years down the line I can assure you it is not quite what many expected. My reply was an answer to a previous post...why are some people a bit bitter or cynical? Experience!. .. .You and others at least have the benefit of Prune it does supply a useful flip side to the management blurb you will hear doing the recruitment process. By all means come on board but know what you are signing up for and don't complain if it does'nt quite match your expectations.. .Good Luck BP

Mr Orange,. .. . </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">The assertion that BA pilot's have better control of their lifestyle is tosh. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">I work at LGW (not bidline, but Carmen), I can therefore bid for:-. .. .Days off, Destinations, Where to night stop, Where to layover (and how long), No of sectors per day, No. of sectors per tour, Length of tours (1-6 days), Time of check in (e.g. Not before 07.30am). I also bid for when I want to do my Sim check and SEP, and when I want to do my reserve(standby).. .. .And all this from in the comfort of my own home via the internet. You obviously don't get everything you ask for, but its not exactly 'tosh' is it. I aplogise if my use of the phrase 'standard of living' confused the issue, 'Lifestyle', is what I meant....I think.. .. .I live within 30 mins of Gatwick and dont find the property too bad, I'm not living in a two bed and I'm certainly not living in a 'hole'. As for the M25, as already pointed out, very rarely do I hit a jam on a SH roster.. .. .Pre 9/11 times for command at BA ranged from 4 yrs (737 LGW) to 13yrs (744+777) comparable to other airlines (though obviously things have changed).. .. .Your point regarding other airlines closing the pay gap with BA is conceded. Lets hope the situation is resolved as the company recovers. However the more senior LH BA, is still the most lucrative flight deck position in this country. . .. .Honestly not trying to argue, just trying to point out some of the positives in working for BA amidst the sea of negativity. At the end of the day its the individuals choice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 08 March 2002, 22:22: Message edited by: Super Stall ]</small>

Superstall,. .. .Fair points! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> . .. .As you say if they get their act together and make it worthwhile for people to consider leaving their current airline then it'll be a step in the right direction! Have me tempted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . .. .You still have terms & conditions most us can only dream about! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

Fruitbat - There is very little to suggest that all the negative posts above are written by "old farts", as you so eloquently put it, in fact many would seem to come from disillusioned types of about your own age. Careful you don't get off on the wrong foot so early! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />

B Clam,. .. .Point taken. But if you're not already in the housing market or you are but not in the SE, then how far do you think £140000 (3.5 X a DEP's salary) is going to get you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> . .. .Not a trick question! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

Well if you've saved £20K from your previous job it could get you a one bedroomed flat in a depressing area of west London. Still it'll be handy for those endless reserve months you'll be doing.

After reading this particular thread I feel the nee to put my 10 pence worth in. I am a Purser for B.A. at EOG to be EFG (Shorthaul LGW) and have been there for 4 1/2 years. My gilrfriend is an F.O. on the same fleet and has been for 2 years.. .I'd like to address some of the posts on this thread if I may.. .. .1. As far as anyone knows no recruitment at the moment. If there was I'm sure this is the first place you would hear about it. (seeing as this was the whole point of this thread to begin with!!). .. .2. The pursers sometimes are earning more than the F.O.'s but...... bear in mind these people have been around for a while (20 yrs + some of them) and are on older contracts that are long gone or have just worked their way up to get where they are (It takes a long time for crew too!!), so if you've got a brand new cadet and a long serving PSR or CSD then yup they probably will earn more. However I assure you this is not the case here at EFG - believe me I know!!!. .. .3. Everyone who works for any company (B.A. as well) takes part in a bit of company bashing from time to time - it's part of working for someone else - we all think we could do it better!!! However put us in charge and I'm sure we'd all be on the bread line quicker than you say "rotate". But at the end of the day we all work hard for and are proud of "the company" and do our part. There are certain elements who are anti-company, these are either soon up for retirement or when the option of leaving is suggested to them they scoff and say "no chance" because B.A. is as much of a "job for life" in the airline insustry as your ever going to get, and are quite happy to bed down in nice hotels and count the allowances.. .. .4.House prices in the south are higher and you may not be able to afford to that flat in Mayfair but 1 1/2 from LGW of LHR gives you a big scope for house hunting, and an F.O.'s salary will get you something pretty good if you've got a deposit. At the end of the day it's unlikely you'll ever lose your money at any rate!!. .. .5. Lastly from a cabin crew point of view B.A. is "still" the airline to aspire to. As to what things are like on the other side of the flight deck door(and from an objective point of view I probably know more than most cabin crew) it looks pretty good from here and you could certainly do a lot worse for a career and a employer. . .. .Just like to finish by saying that the golden days of B.A. are gone - the Bentleys are dwindling from the car park and are being replaced by BMWs (still not too shabby!!) - the next few years (give it 10!!) will I hope see a new airline emerging that is even better to work for and is the pride of the country and the envy of the world. The people who are still there for the money will have gone and left the rest of us happy workers to show the world what B.A. is and can be.. .. .Sorry to go on - hope to see you all in club soon!!!

Does this BA you mention exist in some parallel universe or what? I admire your optimism but the phrase you can't polish a !!!! springs to mind.. .. .Harry (visitor from the 5th dimension)