To "wings"

Right you are, at least regarding the world wide market..
Being in close contact to several mates flying widespread around the globe,
everybody is telling me that his airline is looking for experienced pilots, some
of them desperately!
The biggest demand exists in the middle east and asia, but Europe starts to
clear up as well. For the time being you still might require the appropriate
type rating, but some companies start to offer even this.

As one of my fellas here stated: The tsunami is already launched, but our
so called "managers" haven't realized it yet!

Just be patient for a few more months more, our time is about to come..

Fly safe

dr.b.

Porridge, there are quite a few experienced pilots floating around Framce, but they are being too well looked after by their govmt and Air Force pensions to be bothered moving. They are the kings of lifestyle remember, and would never trade lifestyle, especially to work for a LCC based in Essex.

As for FR having loads of planes doing nothing, that is not correct at the moment. It looks like (sounds like) the next 20 in coming a/c are already crewed which is given the rest of us a well earned break whilst we wait for them. The proof of the pudding will be in late feb and March when the old crews will approach the 900 hr limit. If the company has got it right, it should just about work, if not like the last 3 years planes will be on the ground again.

There is a serious shortgage of GOOD pilots, and they are the ones every airline wants cos they save shed loads of money, fly the planes smoothly and safety is never an issue with them, it comes naturally! Oh, and they speak good English!!!!

shortage
 

Did hear from extremely reliable source that Easy Jet "need" 600 pilots next year. Presumably they need captains and not just fo's, so will have to take direct entry guys. Wherever they get them from (even the people willing to pay for their own training and work for no wages can't fill the gap) it will cause a vacuum with a knock on effect for the whole industry. We live in hope.

No shortage
 

An expanding UK based 737 operator told me recently they have a hold pool full up with qualified and experienced 737 pilots, and a list of others waiting to get the chance to apply.... :uhoh:

Shortage, doubt it.

There is a shortage....but its not that simple
 

As usual, these pilot shortage debates have gotten wildly out of hand with many contrasting views. Let me try and clear up a few things for us.

There is a large shortage of qualified pilots with plenty of hours and who are type rated on the aircraft the employer flies. Just take a look at all of the ads in the back of FI every week.

However this does not automatically mean that there is a genuine shortage of ab-initio guys. There are hundreds been churned out of FTE, Oxford etc every month. IMHO, some companies do not like to take guys like this and prefer to be involved with their training right from the beginning. A few companies have started this type of scheme but no-one has really ventured towards sponsorship yet.
One example i know of is Cityjet who are sending guys down to South Africa, and visit them every few months to check up on them. They also have a say in exactly how they are trained. For example, Cityjet ensured that the newbies were flying within a week of starting training unlike many other schools which do a lot of ground school first. Cityjet have also agreed to SPONSOR the new guys type rating, which clearly shows that they are worried another company may snap these guys up once their fully trained possibly hinting that they may find it hard to keep pilots.

Based on this i believe we are at the very start of a bright period for pilot recruitment and barring any major world events the industry should keep on growing.

However, i believe that we can only say that there is a TRUE pilot shortage when Airlines need to offer sponsorship schemes in order to attract employees!

Flyerire.:ok:

Same thing happened to me. Of course it may just be that they emailed this out wholesale to every address they have on file.
If they were really desperate they'd have picked up the phone or at least invited me to an interview.

Airlink Scotland

Not entirely so. I fly for an ever expanding 737 operator LHS in the midlands.
They have just taken on a friend I have recommended, with no commercial flying experience, zero jet time and no sim check, as a result of him passing one elsewhere recently!!!
True as daylight follows night. :D

Experienced Pilots
 

Good evening to eveyone ,
Being an experienced FO with a few thousand hours on B737 , I have had plenty of e-mails , phone calls etc regarding interviews , some of which I applied to about 4 years ago . A very good indication of an experienced pilot shortage.
However , I applied to a certain Lo Co in Luton , and recieved an interview date within 5 days of applying .
The interview , and tech paper went very well , and went to the sim early the next morning . The first few minutes were a little untidy , however , I settled in nicely .The assesor was not from the above indicated airline , but from a certain training provider .
I then recieved a call within 2 days informing me that I was not up to standard . Only a week prior to this , I had my LPC which was observed by a CAA inspector , which went very well , and recieved a very good report .
I must admit that I am still suprised at what happened , due to the fact that this particular airline is looking for 450 pilots , as was expressed to me at my interview .
I definately do not have a gripe at all , the people in Luton , were very pleasant , friendly , and welcoming .
I agree there is a shortage , however , how much of a shortage .:ugh:

I love PPRUNE! Your reliable source is way off the mark. EZY want 450.

Don't worry ME109, its just that the certain training provider can't make that much money off you:sad: Your story has been repeated several dozen times, that I am aware of.

Just out of interest, the assessor wasn't as certain ex BA 767 skipper was it?

Damn generous of them to "sponsor" the ratings, considering they're charging them twice the market rate for the CPL/IR training. And that WITHOUT a job guarantee. It seems however they're correct in worrying about the guys going elsewhere, as rumour has it the cadets have refused to sign !!!!yjet contracts.

As far as I can see, were these different times, times in which pilots had an ounce of self-respect and were unwilling to be ridden by the airlines, there would be a serious shortage. However, while legions of goons are willing to sign up to SS ratings (SS being quite an apt acronymn actually for some of the airlines behaviours) and work for half nothing, there won't be the much-desired overall shortage for a while yet. What there is a certainly a shortage of is good and/or experienced guys. However, until forced to do otherwise, airlines only want warm-bodies on seats, minimum quality being acceptable.

Actually, the fully integrated course Cityjet offer is costs exactly the same amount as going to Oxford or Jerez!!

While there were no guarantee's of a job, it seemed like a damn better prospect than anyone else was offering.
And just FYI, all the guys i know down there have signed their contracts of employment and are united in praising how well they have been looked after by Cityjet.

So while most were understandably sceptical about this program at first, it seems to have turned out to be a real gem!!

A very profound analysis, flyerire.
Additionally, it is simply to find out that there must be a shortage, or if not yet, it will come.

Input of new pilots has decreased since the recession in the early 90's, after 9/11. Lots of classical airlines have seized operation or at least their cadet scheme. Every year the old baby boomer captains go into pension. They have started their career in the 60/70's when there was the first expansion of civil aviation, so a big drain.

Although there is a huge number of people willing to pay for it, there will be never as much as there used to be when it was paid by the airline.

Airline industry is expanding at a breathtaking pace.

Ergo there must be a demand. As it has been said mainly for experienced captains, with several thousands of hours. Because of the reasons I stated above, there might be a lot of old and middle aged guys, but those with 5-10 years of service should be rare, and they are the ones the airlines need (for upgrading and cheap CMDs).

my 2 cents,
Dani

ME109,

A lucky escape there my friend.

Who knows how many decent pilots CTC trainers have ditched in the sim ride qe? :ugh:

Shags

Interesting thread - so what would be the chances for someone sitting on a UK ATPL(A) with 3000 hours (no jet) getting a place? (Also have ATPL(H) and another 5000 heli)

Phil

i would like to point out something that some may have not yet thought of.
lets assume that 3 companies have 100 pilots each ,in their respective ,waitting lists.
lets again assume that atleast 50 of those pilots are allready in all 3 companies waiting lists .(as it is usually the case ....when people decide to move on ,they apply to more than one company and end up in more than one waiting list)
this has the effect of , 2 out of the 3 companies waiting lists ,to be short by 50 pilots.
so if all available pilots in waiting lists are ,for example,1000,and if all companies waiting lists are 1000 each ,and if one companies gets all 1000 pilots in their waiting list ,that means that the remaining companies will have non in their waiting lists.
so waiting list numbers ,dont ,necessarily reflect ,the amount of available pilots.

To me, there is NO pilot shortage at all when you're a demanding a pilot.
Sure, plenty of airlines are seeking pilots. But for a pilot to undig a nice airline with nice conditions and pay is a bit harder. Getting your bum up in the sky is not complicated at all. Making good money in a good airline with good rosters is a bit trickier.
I tend not to accept anything at any price. I'm getting very picky with the years. And searches take a bit more time. While you're striving with a bad airline, plenty of nice job opportunities pass you by.

Re TNT, how in the world can anyone apply there ??? Crap money, crap night-flights. COnsidering this is a company making outrageous profits, I take it as a slap in the face and a waste of time.

pilot shortage...
 

pilot shortage....It could be but the most important thing is that this incresing pilot demands :} ....will give us the chance not to pay for type ratings, now it's almost normal but it wasn't like this once...:ugh:
FE

Pilot shortage
 

Monarch man , that individual you refer to , was indeed an ex BA 767 skipper .
I may give it another go , but at the moment I am strongly considering an application to Monarch . Thank God , I have a job , so perhaps the pilot shortage will work more in our favour .:D

Me109

I can identify with your experience of LoCo airline based out of Luton as well.

Made one error right at the beginning - accelerated at 1500' instead of 3000' (doing what I normally do every day of the week) but everything else was to a very above average standard. I speak as someone who is extremely self-critical!

A friend of mine went through on the same day and made several small mistakes (with a different assessor) but was still accepted. He is now a Captain with them.

I pointed out my error on the self assessment form we filled in (self-aware) but still got rejected. Wrote to said company asking to see what had been written about me but was told they couldn't do that. I reminded them that it is the law that someone should have access to something that has been written about them. They relented and told me that the report said that apart from the initial error the rest of the assessment was to a good standard!

My only contact with a certain south-coast based training organisation but it wasn't a good one. They are costing EZY (oops) a lot of perfectly competent individuals but EZY (oops) are too thick skinned to realise it.

All history to me now and their rejection has actually worked in my favour.

Pilot shortage
 

Cuillin ,

I have met a lot of people lately with the same story . It really is amazing .
A very good friend of mine had his sim very recently , he called me afterwards and sais that it was a mess . He over shot the dme on the outbound leg , and missed his altitude by 200 feet . He recieved a phone call 2 days later offering him either aircraft type , he wasnt fussy about basing .
I am sincerely delighted for him . From all the accounts I hear of this selection , there are so many inconsistancies . Anyway , it has worked out better for me as I have been put foreward for a command , providing my next LPC is up to scratch.
The CAA will provide info on how many ATPL and CPL holders there are , and also how many candidates are up for their GFT's .
There are not that many , so I believe that this certain Lo Co will have problems as early as next summer in getting qualified people . Indeed , all airlines will have similar problems .
My present company , who will remain nameless , are already having problems in recruiting for next summer .:D

Who wants to join the pilots of today?

I hear Flybe have just dropped their starting salary for new dash f/o's down to £23 000.00. They have increased the pay by 4% per year for the next 3 years for current staff and brought dash trainers onto jet pay to try to retain those they have.

Just scraped through the Balpa ballot :ouch:

Hapzim

I got my first airline job as a turboprop (F27) first officer 17 years ago and started on £17.5K. Things have improved in all that time to £23K!

Says it all really.

Me109

The CTC guy who assessed me at EZY was also ex 757/767 but I don't know from which operator. This was about 3 years ago. Had never failed even an item on any OPC/LPC. Had never flown a 737 up until then either.

Water under the bridge and I am far better off now than if I had gone to EZY.

Get your command with present company and get some command hours up. If you still have itchy feet then don't give up your command. I did and regretted it. I can maybe think of one or two operators it is worth giving your command up for.

All the best

Looking worldwide
 

Hello,

Does anyone know if there is a major airline that hires pilots that have not flown jet?
I'm looking for a F/O position flying jets. I'm currently flying a Dash 8 as Captain. I hold 6,000 hrs TT, which 900 are as PIC on type.
I'd appreciate any information in the matter. Thanks a lot!!!

Try the Flybe/BACON Fiasco thread.

But put your kevlar on!;)

BR.

I wonder how do contractor renewals fit into the "need" numbers?

Official figure for this year was/is 426 pilots....

Pilot shortage in Europe?
 

I've been hearing rumors from all kinds of places, mostly TRTO's who are trying to sell me TR's that there is a really big shortage of pilots in Europe right now?
Are these rumors true or just a way of trying to sell products?
If there is a shortage, where and on what type of aircraft?

Hei Founder..

I'm afraid that's rumours, because as far as I can see, most airlines have now completed there recruitment for this summer.. If there's a shortage I think it will be for captains, and experienced F/O for fast track command..

There's a shortage of instructors, and pilots who are willing to fly aerial photography, sightseeing etc.. At least that's the case i Denmark at the moment...
However I've heard that Sterling is still recruiting through there SSTR scheme, but that's an expensive option if you ask me..

Good luck.
BAP

there are lots of jobs arround but there is only a lack of experianced pilots at the moment!
The problem is that the airlines are still not willing to pay for experience!

Neil

That's what everybody says, but Jim McAuslan the General Secretary of BALPA said last month that pilots are in short supply and claimed unless airlines are flexibile they'll struggle to recruit. He was talking about low experience/low hours FOs.

You can email him c/o [email protected]
I don't know if you have to be a member to get leads/inside info, but nothing to lose by asking.

There's a shortage of trainers and sim slots for TRs.

SWISS is cancelling flights nearly every day due to flight crew shortage. Lease in of Helvetic F100s and occasionally Edelweiss A320s and Belair B757 to cope with lack of flight crews on the ARJ fleet...

According to Loganair management there's a shortage of inexperienced F/Os in Scotland/UK...we have had to hire hoards of Swedes who just happen to be type rated on the Saab

I know this is not the same continent, but one regional airlines in US has lowered the minimums to 250tt to hire pilots. So will other US regional airlines do too very soon. There is a big big big BIG Flight Instructor shortage in US right now. Schools are crying for FI and mean time student from china, India and some European students are on hold due to lack of instructors. The demand for pilots is not being met by the supply. It will look good for few years!!!

Good Luck :ok:

No Shortage Yet!!
 

You will know when there is a pilot shortage when it is routine to offer type ratings for new-hires.

That is most definitely not the current situation.

Having said that, the situation does appear (to me) to be improving. A few have moved on from my company after a long, more or less static, period. And have been replaced with low timers who pay their own TR.

klm
 

Even an airline like klm is has canceled several flights in the last few weeks.
On the 330 ,pilots are flying on their days off and leave period.
those were flights I can monitor ,because I was scheduled to position on them; so how many more in the whole network?

If it is true that The almighty KLM are cancelling flights, justice may being served.
May be now they will reflect on how they have mistreated many of the crews from AIR UK. The VNV and KLM policy to rid the company of this group of very professional pilot and cabin crew because of there nationalities is an absolute disgrace.
Lets hope they get there just deserve.

the grass is always greener...
 

somewhere else...

Most wannabees would fly for next to nothing just to get the wheel started. I observed plenty of them lately, some having had to wait up to 5 years (at great expense) before landing their first job.
As a young F/O, the next step is the full ATPL. Buiding hours and experience you then start looking elsewhere, realizing that your airline pays peanuts (the very reason they employed you in the first place!). Moving to a better place, bigger/better craft and racking hours, soon in a position to move LHS. You will then either upgrade in the present company with some bond scheme or still earning peanuts, or move some place else.
Once positionned on the cosy port seat, you again start collecting hours, thereby conforting your position.
Then, and only then, will you have the luxury to relax and watch the grass grow and go for the most attractive one ;)

I don't really observe any "pilot shortage" in the good (well paying, looking after their flight crew, future oriented, etc) airlines, but a "pilot demand" in the smaller and less attractive outfits.

Thing is also, that in the recession a lot of elderly pilots have had to take their hat into retirement, leaving a void that has not be filled yet. Associated to market expansion, it has created in the last 2 years a demand wave that is now slowly diminishing.

Well, all in all, just a contant evolution of the market :cool: