Scroggs,

Well, we hope the figures will be better. Unless VK is going to the Dogs.

As Virgin Atlantic has recently underwritten an $811m order for Embraer aircraft for VK, I very much doubt our bean counters think that VK is at risk. You and I may be less sanguine, but we don't have the Nigerian Government's input. If corruption and over-ambition can be overcome, VK should make a very healthy profit as the major airline in arguably the second-wealthiest economy in Africa. And if they profit, we profit!

Well I'm reasonably new in VS and I hope things do get better, as I left a pretty good position to join.. ;)

Does anybody have a rough idea of the estimated time to command what with the new B787 delays etc.?

Count Von Altibar,

We are not one of the first delivery customers for the 787, therefore it seems that the current delays will not affect VS too badly.

That word came from our Aircraft Integration Manager a few days ago. However, that missive came before the further delays announced earlier this week.

On the Command front, it all depends on whether the 787's are for expansion, or replacements of existing airframes.

Timings wise, I would expect 10 to 12 years (for any new joiners) from now if the airframes are for expansion. 15 or more if the airframes are replacements.

That is only my opinion, but I think it's probably quite accurate.

Perhaps Scroggs can add his experience to the mix on this one?

I would agree with above. There are likely to be 6 or so new commands this year which will go to guys who have been here about 8-9 years. For someone joining now i would tell them to plan on 12-15 years.
That is a long time compared to EZY and some charter carriers but should be taken in context of lifestyle and F/O pay and conditions, and is still a little less than a long haul command at BA currently.
So, if you are a 32 year old pilot joining now, command at 47, then 18 years in the left seat if you choose to work to 65. Overall, not bad but knowing VS, things will prob pick up again as they never stand still for long.

A strange question, have asked some ex-Virgin colleagues, wondering whether there is any SOPs reagrding hand flying.. are there any rigid SOPs similar to what I have heard from ex-Emirates colleagues... and roughly how many PF sectors a month do u guys get bearing in mind ur heavy crew?

Thanks in advance

747,

The answer to your question is that hand flying is encouraged, to a certain degree.

No one will criticise you for wanting to keep your skills together by hand flying, but there are times and places for such things.

A good rule of thumb to start with is perhaps not to overload the PNF. If for example you have just come back into the London TMA after a 2 man, night Chicago it may be better to not hand fly from "top of drop".

In practice, most guys hand fly a bit of the departure and will disconnect the AP and ATHR (if they feel like it), once they are reasonably assured of a landing ahead. After all, a hand flown go around in an A340-600 is rather hurried. I have done one...

So, in essence: No dictator SOP's to say what you can and can't do. Only common sense and airmanship.

And not all our flights are heavy crew. In fact, many of them aren't.

Landings a month? Depends, but I seem to get about 2 or 3.

Many thanks stanstead..

Just what I wanted to hear.. good to see common sense still prevails in many carriers.. as you say picking your time is of the upmost importance.. I must confess still havent flown raw data all the way into LGW even when it's quiet.. CDA's having a lot to do with it along with the other points you made, but nice to see there are no draconian SOPs regarding flight director and autopilot use.. Happy Flying

Most people would always leave the Flight Director on. Me especially, because I am really sh1t.:)

This thread has gone a bit quiet.

Any Virgin flyers know whether there is any truth in the rumour of a possible pilot recruitment drive this summer? Personally, the large order for 787s makes me very excited!

Scroggs, anyone?

Cheers

ST

2 Engines 2 Survive!!.........apparently B777s could be on the cards as an interim from Boeing to fill in for delayed B787s.

I had heard similar rumours! I will be looking for a new job in the early part of next year and would be very interested to know what is on the horizon......

Following up on Solent Trout's post above, is Virgin currently hiring (or will they soon)? If so, will most hiring take place fir A340-600 or will 744 slots be open too?

Are 744 slots highly coveted among current A340 FOs so that newhires don't get the option? Sounds like A340 crews get great route variety.

We have an unplanned A340-300 arriving in early 2009.

This will create some new Commands, so there will be movement.

The company have a plan in place to recruit about 9 new crews for this aircraft.


Command training may start as soon as this Summer, so recruitment might too.

Intersesting! I can hear the flood gates opening now...

Iver,

You'll find little to no desire from 340 F/O's to go across to the Boeing. As you say, the route network at the moment on the airbus is a lot better. The company will place new hires as they see fit depending on the fleet requirements at the time.

Rumour mill suggests that one 340 is entering the fleet this year with another one in 09.

Bleed-on,

"Rumour mill suggests that one 340 is entering the fleet this year with another one in 09".

Just out of interest, will these Aircraft be 300 or 600?

TBE.

-300s apparently

Vk
 

Scroggs,VK could be a jewel, the weak point in VK is not flight ops, ground ops and back office are the spots needing the same attention concerning training and attitude as the 340 crews received and thereafter did a very good job.

Morning,

Would any VS pilots care to comment or PM me on the current morale/lifestyle and recruitment process please?

Ive been waiting a while and my numbers just come up.:ok:

Cheers,

MAX:cool:

Airbus generally OK, Boeing being worked to death. No commands or prospects of commands, general feeling of lack of direction, some worries about the future, zero confidence in top management.

Just like everywhere else then.:\

Whats the general consensus about Open Skies. Something you can ride out or loss of revenue.

Is it also true that "saving a penny to lose a pound" has started with the abolition of the inflight beauty therapists.

There won't be much movement for a while. There is another A340-300 coming, as mentioned above, and the airline is a little short on the B744. These two factors might mean around 40 new pilots this year - which is about the size of the hold pool, as far as I know. Undoubtedly some in the hold pool will no longer be available, and it will need to be refilled, so I would anticipate some recruiting this summer - but not in the kind of numbers that I would get too excited about!

The recruiting for the B787 and A380 (and possibly B777 if the 787 is delayed too much) won't begin in earnest for another 18 months or so, I would guess. As yet, there is no statement on how many of these aircraft will be additions to the fleet and how many will replace older frames, so the net requirement for new pilots is difficult to judge. The airline was also due to announce an additional order for aircraft to bolster/replace some of the LGW B744 fleet about now, but that seems to have slid to the right.

It's being reported today in some business sites that SRB and a team of Virgin executives is in Dubai right now trying to raise capital for a potential bmi British Midland buy-out. How serious or imminent this is I have no idea, but any move in that direction will have major ramifications for recruitment: ie, it will stop until all the manpower issues of any merger/takeover are resolved.

Interesting times.

Can anyone give an insight into the takehome pay of a year one FO?

3200 - 3400 after pension deductions and not including allowances down route.

Evening Gents,

Just to confirm that is take home pay on a typical month? Based on how many hours? Am I right to assume that allowances down route are sufficient? And do you get "Cash-in-hand" before each flight or is it included in pay slips at end of month?

Have come to a cross-roads in my career and want to evaluate all options. Thanks in advance.

Cheers,

OW

Yep about £3400 take home after pension, company contribute 15%. Flying a lot at the mo, but max is 750/yr.

Allowances are mostly paid down route in cash, although that is all changing as we are getting a card that the allowances will be paid onto.

:cool:MG.

Vs Payscale question
 

Leaving the mob this year and trying to compare Virgin and BA's salary over a potential 30 year career.

On promotion to captain do you start at the bottom of the captain payscale or do you slide sideways onto captain year x, depending on number of years at the company? I believe the latter is the practice at BA.

How many paypoints are there on the fo and captain payscales at Vs?

Is the retirement age at the moment 60 or 65?

Thanks in advance,

Woolfgang

Thanks for the info MG.....most appreciated. Just trying to figure out if leaving a command overseas a year or so down the road for an FO position (not necesarily with Virgin) on the same money, albeit back in the UK, makes sense for me and the family.

Regards,

OW

PS. Like WG, am intersted in knowing retirement age at Virgin

Wolfgang,

There are 16 F/O increments and 14 Capt increments, all at 2.5%. As a year one Capt, yes you do move to the Capt year one scale regardless of years spent in the right seat, and i would plan on about 10-12 years to promotion.
As things currently stand F/O pay starts at 3300 ish take home per month. I am a year 3 year Capt and take home roughly 5500 but this can vary +/- 300 quid depending on hours flown.

Hope this helps

Oops forget to mention, that following the age changes we can now work to 65 in the L/H seat, although personally i hope to be financially ok to take my pension at 60. Fingers crossed.

4 Engines,

Thanks very much indeed for your reply. That is extremely useful information.
Exciting times ahead, not sure where i'll be in 9 months but I'm already looking forward to it...

cheers,

Woolfgang

Your very welcome

Much of this is covered upthread - yes, it's worth reading the whole thread if you're interested in Virgin. Take home pay depends on your own personal tax circumstances and pension provision. There are Virgin Atlantic captains taking home well over £10,000 a month - but they don't live in UK. If you prefer not to contribute to the pension scheme, or have alternative arrangements, your take-home pay will increase by around 10% over the figures given by 4Engines above.

Yes well put Scroggs.

I put 6% into the co. pension scheme, in order to get the max from the company at 15%. Naturally, your take home can vary considerably depending on individual contribution levels.

Realistically though, because all VS Pilots would pay tax at 40% nominally, the pension contributions are good way of getting that Tax relief.

All contributions are before tax, so the contributions you actually make seem far smaller(in terms of the amount deducted) than they would be if they were after tax.

Most people pay their 6% or more. I have NEVER met a VS pilot who is not in the pension one way or another.

I pay 10%, VS pay 15%. I am a year 2 FO and take home £3500 on average. Not a vast sum, granted, but it's enough because it is not hard work.

Is this one of the longest running threads on Pprune?

Just got an email a couple of days ago calling me in for interview!

Couple of questions please....

1. Carmen - has it settled down? How does it work and are people generally content with it?
2. Job position seems to be LHR, I am -400 rated so guessing -400 at LHR (although I have recent A320 rating on my licence). What sort of work are those guys doing - routes/trips lengths/mainly 2-3 crew? Are there any 4 crew trips in VS?
3. What are the "positioning issues" the Jumbo guys have to deal with?
4. Allowances - much talk above of take home....when is the new card coming in for expenses and how will that work? What are the expenses, and typically what do they amount to each month?
5. If successful, am I likely to be placed in the pool?
6. Training - as a rated entrant what sort of course will I have to face? Where is it run?

Thanks guys,

Any top tips and points regarding current issues in VS would be apprieciated via PM!!

MS

1. No, it hasn't. We still have several rostering issues. They are being dealt with, but progress is slow. You've alluded to one of the issues in another point.

2. All VS pilots are based at LHR, period. Your ratings are not particularly relevant to which type you may end up on; you could go to either - though the B744 does need a few extra bods at the moment.

3. There is quite a lot of positioning to and from flights for the B744 guys. Some is to and from MAN for those schedules, some is to, from and around the Caribbean for the tortured scheduling plot for that region. It is becoming an issue, exacerbated by the shortage of pilots on that fleet.

4. The new card is in now. No difference to the amount of money received (around £400-£500 a month, tax free). HMRC may have further news on that front for all airline employees soon!

5. Yes.

6. Most courses are at The Base, Virgin's training facility in Crawley, though Airbus pilots will do some or all of their course in Toulouse. The B744 (and some A340) simulator phase is at Burgess Hill. The kind of course you'll do is a complicated issue depending on your ratings and currency, and one I'm not really qualified to comment on. Whatever it is, it'll take between 3 and 5 months including line training.

Scroggs

I thought the hold pool was being depleted to cover this year's requirements. I didn't think there was going to be any movement for ages. I shall get back on the case!