Feb:
Standby all month! :bored:

I have been an FO with BA for 2 years and am considering Virgin when recruitment resumes. A lot of info on this thread, but I miss a few critical bits of info:
1. FO take home salary: How much is it once on the line on a typical month if you contribute normally to your pension (6%) (As a guide, BA is between £3200 and £4000, depending on trips and leave). I'd be very greatful if a new FO would have time to answer this. It's a vital point because my immediate problem will be to pay my mortgage.
2. Training/Management: How is the atmosphere during initial training and with the trainers: Are they friendly or choppy ? Same for management: Is there a no blame culture or will you feel threatened if you make a mistake. (BA is very, very good with both and I would miss the feeling of security this brings)
3. CRM: How much rope do you get as a copilot ? Do Captains tend to leave you to manage most aspects of your sector or will they want you to do exactly what they want even when you're perfectly fine, thereby not letting you expand and enjoy ? Is the vast proportion of air force backgrounds driving the company towards good CRM or single seater CRM ? (BA is average on that and where a large proportion of guys have fantastic CRM, those who don't make you feel miserable for a few days. :ugh: The monitored approach makes the matter worse and the company's reluctance to address CRM means things won't change. Plus the RHS is yours for 15y min, so I won't miss this if I leave)

I'm pretty new to BA as well, but already I've heard of 3 guys who have been with the company for less than a year leaving, at least one to Virgin. All have put in their resignations since Christmas.

Reasons given are the same; 750hrs/yr vs 900 ; broadly comparable pay despite that for a new joiner ; a pension which is almost 30% better! (surely there isn't THAT big a difference?) ; a decent chance of command within a reasonable timescale.

Must have been a shock to BA's management who still seem to think that theirs is the only airline of choice for anyone after a job. Virgin does seem to be a happy company to work for though. Pity I wasn't good enough to get there ;)

Demobcurious,

Well, I am not surprised. I believe another factor must be the relationship with Cabin Crew. For those considering BA, listen to this : on shorthaul, our cabin crew fly a different pattern to us which means that on a 3 sector day, you'll have 3 lots of crews onboard. The most you'll keep them is 2 sectors. So the CSD/Purser really is the boss down there. When coming onboard, most main crew won't say hello. Some won't even look at you if you're in the galley as they walk in. As a copilot, this can become rather frustrating as the dispatcher may also forget to shake your hand and you feel you're a nobody. Then if the captain is the same (rare, but happens, as previously described), you feel like screaming out of the DV window. Very sad indeed. In fact most people are OK but the company has let things slide the way of the cabin crew and our communities are segmented in a way that is sad to see. On long haul apparently it gets worse...
From what I understand this is much better at Virgin and I would be looking forward to their operation in that respect.
In the mean time, I have found some more info on the threads, Vol 1 about pay, and so it all seems to be very similar: Virgin now gets £45000+£12000= 57 000 + Allowances and at BA it is 45000+13000= £58000 + Allowances. I guess the difference I see on my relatively high take home is that I do a bit of draft and also don't spend all my allowances. Anyway, not a very big difference, especially when you consider SH command in 15y+ at BA ( I'll be 47!) and in 20y+ LH (I'll be 52!!!) when it is just 8y at Virgin giving me a hope for LH command at 45 if I made it reasonably soon !
Altogether, it seems like a no brainer really. Same pay, better pension, fewer hours, better atmosphere...
If anyone would have answers to my last two questions, I would be most greatful !

I joined recently, so I can't really answer too many questions.

What I would say is this:

Everyone, but everyone has been nothing short of friendly.That goes for Management, trainers and crew.

Money, dunno, but it seems fair enough.

Pension. Yes, we have one and it IS better than BA's. In fact , it is MUCH better in respect that 15% of basic PLUS variable pay goes in. i.e. you put in 6%, VS put in 15% of the £57000.

750 HOURS A YEAR.Nothing is forever in aviation, but this is a REAL keeper of pilots and lifestyle. It allows people to have a quality of life that is better than BA.

Benefits seems very fair and generous. Staff travel seems straightforward and honest. Insurances and the like are pretty much identical to elsewhere.

Time to Command? Not sure if I believe it is as low as 8 years currently. Recruiting has slowed and retirement has been raised to 65. More like 12 or so I "GUESS".

All in all, I can't see anywhere better in the UK to fly. Put it this way, I never, ever applied to BA......... that tells you all you need to know, when combined with the number of applicants from Virgin to BA each year. i.e. NONE.

Hello, Stansdead, and thanks for the swift reply. Have you had a full month's pay yet and if so you much did you take home on average ?

Speedbird,

I am in a bit of a unique position, in that I have not done any flying on the line yet due to a "slight mishap" (Injury).

Without flying, took home £3k last month.

There IS more to life than just money. Virgin really is a good gig. Remember that ON TOP of any take home pay you get (which will be higher than I just mentioned), you also get CASH allowances downroute, so little need to dig into your own reserves there !

So, if the take home at BA is higher, it's only because you do 20% more work and therefore receive more allowances...... your pay is virtually no different at all.

I am looking forward to getting online and am sure that life is gonna be GRRRRRREAT!!!

Just look at how many people leave Virgin. It is virtually unheard of.

Speedbird451, please keep the topic to Virgin Atlantic on this thread; as you've already discovered, there is an existing 'BA vs Virgin' thread on which the T&Cs can be directly compared. Also, all the questions you've asked have already been answered - some on only the previous page of this thread. There is the entire Mk1 version of this thread to go through also...

On the pension, as already stated, Virgin pay 15% on the entire 59k (2007 figures), so long as you contribute a minimum of 6%. There is a sliding, pro-rata scale below that. If you wish to pay more than 6%, I understand that there is effectively now no upper limit. Many who have been here since before pensions legislation changed pay 15%, making a total of 30% of gross pay going into the pension fund - which is entirely independent of Virgin, and is not affected by the company's fate. Investment within the fund can be left to the trustees, or, through Fundrider or similar, you can control it yourself. Some people have done very well at this!

There's a great deal more info to be found here, so get a beer and do some reading!

Scroggs

Recruitment Process
 

Hi,

Just wondered if someone could let me know the recruitment process and what to expect or please point me to a link that has this information. It would be great to have a head's up so I can prepare, assuming I am lucky enough to be invited for interview.

Thanks very much.

Recruitment open- looks like you need a Boeing/Airbus type rating, as clicking through and getting to "Military with 2500+" gets a PFO.

Link: http://gs19.globalsuccessor.com/fe/t...rmsubmit4.y=14

Hello, Guys, I thought the recuitment would resume a tiny bit later during the year. I have 2200 hours total with 1200 on A320 with BA out of Heathrow. It will take me 5 months to get to 2500+. Do you know how long they take to invite people in ? Would it be percieved as a fraud to say you have got 2500 hours when you don't but you know you'll have them by the time you sit the interview ?

If you apply in February with 2200 hours and get to the interview (or at least the document checking) stage in August with 2510 hours, it would be a little bit obvious, don't you think? As most Virgin pilots have 4000+ hours on selection, I suspect the question will remain hypothetical, however.

Katanaman read through this thread and follow the link to the previous one. The information you want is contained within - and a great deal else besides. That said, I have heard a suggestion that the selection procedure is changing slightly, but I have no further information at this stage.

Scroggs

Scroggs, yes I agree it is hypothectical and that it would seem obvious. The reason I am asking is that when I joined BA, during a casual chat with my interviewers, they told me they were in reality only interested in compliance with the requirements at documents checking. Knowing that could save a few weeks seniority to a few people. Just wondering whether Virgin are adamant on the hours at application or at documents checking... By the way, do you know how long it takes from application to interview ? Even though chances are slight, I think the best is to remain motivated..

Speedbird 451, I have been applying/updating my details for the last 4 years.
I have 0ver 8000 hrs and 0ver 5000 hrs medium jets and a Bus rating.
Still no Sniff of an Interview yet!:ugh:

Well that is not too encouraging for the rest of us then :{

Letter today asking to re submit details.
 

I received a letter today from Gemma Halpin asking me to resubmit my details online. Should I read anything into this, is this a good sign? :)

The application form was a bit strange and did not really ask too much of you.
The main thing I suppose, is that you upload your CV on line.
Should I have also uploaded copies of License, Ratings, Medical etc?
As the upload box reappeared after uploading the CV.

Has Gemma taken over from Janine?

Goldcup, from how I understand it, if you're 'military with 2500+' you can click on either the 'Airbus and/or military', or the 'Boeing and/or military' as you will fit into these categories as well!
Website's open till March I'm told....

Go on Goldcup you know you want to. A red unifrom will probably suit you.:)

virgin recruitment
 

Does anyone have any idea realistically what the requirements are for Virgin to be invited for an interview?
I know their website specifies min 2500 hrs but do they prefer airbus rated/ military pilots and also does a letter of recommendation from within the company help to getting and interview.

Any views with regards to their criteria will be welcome.

Jetkopite:)

All the information exists on this thread and its predecessor. Please read it. Once you have done so, then ask any questions you still have.

Scroggs

WRT my earlier post ( No 97) has anyone else received such a letter?
Am I reading too much into this?
Any advice gratefully appreciated Scroggs. Thanks. :ok:

TC, I can't really give you any information. I'm not part of recruiting and I have no knowledge currently of what's going on in that part of the company. I was aware that some changes were afoot, but what they were/are/will be, I don't know.

However, I would say that if you've been asked to remake your application online there is probably a good reason for it! As I've recently suggested, I'm pretty sure that all applications have now to be made that way, and it may be helpful to the company to have older applications updated via the website. At the very least, it can't be bad news - at least they still know who and where you are!

All I can say is 'Good luck'!

Scroggs

Hi TC!

I didn´t receive any letter. As a matter of fact I recently send my updated CV to Janine (roughly two weeks before this online application came into play) and I haven´t received any reply. :(

I would definitely think that receiving this letter is good news (like Scroggs said: it can´t be bad news!) so all the best to you! :ok:

iBus

• Minimum age of 18
• The ability to swim a minimum of 25 metres unaided.
• Minimum of 2500 flying hours (If your 2500 hours include military flying, you must have at least 1000 fast jet or heavy jet hours).
• JAR ops licence
• Current Class A Medical

Class A medical? Is that a military thing?

Thanks for the replies. I will keep my fingers crossed then.:)

TC, I received a letter from Gemma as well asking for the same thing. I had been applying for some time with the personal recommendation etc. Many, many calls to Janine got me knowhere, so I pretty much called it a day. I know the recruitment has changed a bit now and Janine is not in her previous role (info via a friend). I just completed a new application to see where it goes. I'm not sure if this is a "We're interested letter," or "if you don't update, we'll take you off our system letter." I have fewer hours than you at a little over 4000, but all boeing.

I received the same letter from Gemma aswell,guess its a standard letter to everyone on their database.
Anyone know how many pilots will be recruited during this selection?

Jetkopite:)

a lot of pilots for sure:ugh:

No, not a lot. 70 or fewer, I believe.

Scroggs

Anyone had an interview date yet?

I had an e-mail from Gemma yesterday saying basically the same as in the letter.

Even though I was given a personal reference number after registering, I'm concerned now that my updated details did not register correctly?

Has anyone else received the same e-mail, after updating the details online and in receipt of gemma's letter?

Further to some of the posts above, the current situation is this.

Paper CVs will no longer be accepted or retained. To register for consideration for interview, you must go via the Virgin Atlantic website and use the system called iGrasp (who thought that one up? :yuk: ). This will also accept updates to previously-registered CVs. Once on the database created by such registration, you will be updated from time to time by the company. I imagine that you will drop off the database if you do not regularly (6-monthly or so) review and update your profile.

It is my interpretation that anyone who has not registered this way will no longer be eligible for interview, so if you've only sent in a paper CV and you haven't yet had notification of anything further happening, go and register!

For reference, the current minimum requirements are 2500 hrs, Airbus or Boeing type rating or 1000hrs on fast jet or military heavy transport. Be aware that our requirements may change from time to time; iGrasp is intended to help us manage these changes effectively.

Scroggs

Oh, by the way - anyone looking for the original 'Virgin Master Thread' won't find it at the moment - it has been removed pending the resolution of one or two issues entirely irrelevent to the subject of Virgin, but which peripherally involved that thread. It will be back as soon as I can sort out a few things.

Scroggs

Thanks for the update Scroggs.
Just a quick question though:

Is that 2500hrs on Boeings or Airbus?
Or 2500 hrs Plus a Boeing or Airbus rating but time on type? Thanks.:ok:

BR.

scroggs - I know you have nothing personally to do with deciding the minimum experience requirements at Virgin, but can I ask for your view on the relevance that 1000hrs on fast jet has when compared to someone who, for example, has 1500hrs TT and a CRJ/EMB rating. I just don't see how 1000hrs fast jet experience is relevant in any way to 747/340 passenger ops. Of course it may be to do with the desire to have a strong ex-Mil presence in the airline.

JCB1 - as a current VS pilot I tend to agree with your rant above about mil hours vs civvy hours.

I also agree with your remark that Scroggs has absolutely nothing to do with the setting of minimum standards required for entry to the VS recruiting system. So why not bring the subject up at your interview, I'm sure the interviewers will be happy to enlighten you.

Hi tired, my post wasn't in any way intended as a rant, I'm genuinely interested, so sorry if it appeared negative, I was just trying to 'think' my way around the requirements. I can understand the heavy transport factor, just not the fast jet thing.

I suppose I better clarify also that I'm not in the 1500hrs TT, CRJ/EMB rating bracket, and I haven't got an application in either. I understand it's a very desirable place to be though. :ok:

Correct. Absolutely nothing whatsoever.
You can ask. As I have nothing to do with the recruiting policy at Virgin, I can't give you an insight into the details of that policy. However, you might like to consider reading the requirements again:

The minimum hours requirement is 2500. Not 1000, not 1500, but 2500 - for all applicants.

The experience required is either a type rating on Boeing or Airbus equipment OR 1000 hours on miltary fast jets or heavy transport equipment.

Happier now?

To the hypothetical 1500hr CRJ pilot, go get another 1500 hours or so and some time on heavier jets, then you might be in with a shot. Be advised, though, that the average successful applicant has 4000 hours or more. Military or civil.

As for time on type, I would imagine that someone with no heavy time, but a B737 or A320 rating, would stand rather less chance than a snowball's in Hell.

Scroggs

Happy - yes, it's in my genes! Satisfied - not really, I was going to ask more, but it appears that Virgin is not the place for those with an enquiring mind. :oh:

jcb1
That's the most ridiculous thing I have heard. Scroggs has made his point quite clearly. He is not involved in selection, but he has pointed out the selection criteria to you very succinctly. If you don't like it, that's not his fault !

Getting into Virgin is always going to be very competitive and it is not going to change it's policies to suit your logbook or ratings I am afraid.

That said, I got in, therefore there is hope for everyone. GOOD LUCK in your pursuit of joining us. Just don't whinge !:ok: