Jumpseat in Europe
 

Do airlines in Europe allow their own pilots or other airline pilots to ride on the jumpseat? All I see is that its hard to commute to work in Europe. In the US its very easy because all airliners have at least one jumpseat available if there is no room in the back.

Depends on the country/airline. Not allowed by the airline I work for in the UK.

Jumpseats in Europe?
 

Hey guys and gals,

Just gsot over to England from the Caribbean. We use the jumpseat (spare cabin seat if not allowed in cockpit) to travel everywhere. All over the states as well as Canada and even over to Europe.

What about in Europe? Wearing the uniform and presenting the license good enough to catch a ride?

Any ideas?

Yes with Iberia, Air Madrid, Air Europa and above all Air Nostrum.
Nothing sure, you can encounter very nice captains (:ok: :ok: ) as well as bloody B:mad: ones...

Note that those companies are just some spanish ones ( with UK companies, just forget it, don't even waste your time trying ).
Things are not getting as easy and automatic as it used to be 5 years ago. You must speak spanish as well :) ..

Good luck and welcome to Europe :bored:

Guess I'm buying a ticket....haven't done that in a while!

Kez

Only Iberia Pilots may use Iberia for Jumpseating (as per ops manual). If you ask a Iberia Capt to take you home....he´ll risk his way of living...and even with this in mind, sometimes the take you home.
Next time,keep it in mind.

Have jumpseated on a few flights post 911 but it was work related with the pilots during flight.

Most pilots I have seen recently fly in the cabin. Air France in particular are very edgy about you wearing a uniform even in the cabin.

Epaulettes and tie must be removed and your sweater worn if you have one.

Their airline, their rules I guess.

Jumpseat
 

I was fortunate enough to offer jumpseats to a lot of people before 2001. Now it changed unfortunatly as many Airlines have specified who is allowed to sit in the jumpseat. The final discretion of the Captain is undermined since a while by the buerocrats who where not able to get one in the past and try to protect Pilots from Pilots of other Airlines....They come up with a million excuses such as liablity and bla bla bla. If you have a Z-fare ticket then you have real chance to get on, even on a full flight. Without ticket the jealous ground staff of many Airlines just won´t even bother to ask the Crew if they would accept a jumpseat occupant. I had asked and got them with a lot of Airlines around the globe often only when I was able to contact the Crew directly themselves. The OPS people or Checkin personell where, except in the US, never very helpful. I use AF often to fly from home to my first gateway CDG and was never asked to remove anything. The Cabin Crew often offered my a seat in Espace as I have about 10 hours of night flight next. The Ground staff of AF in CDG is a little bit funny in giving you a boarding pass before Check in closes to get early thru crowded security. Even if there are plenty of seats available they insist to wait until check in si closed. PAD- means passenger available debording. If they give a bording pass early and the flight would be unexpectly full then you can be refused to go aboard at the gate or, even worse, before the door closes, asked to vacate the seat and go off bord again. LH, BA and LX is handling that much better, they give you a open bording pass and the seat will be assigned at the gate. Helps all involved to save time to get thru security early and be ready to jump is required.... Good luck when you travel again and welcome if it may with me one day. I risk it as well sometimes if I can trust the people involved. I hope that BALPA is assisting me then as well.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

IT's a shame that it hasn't caught on like it has in the states and Canada. As long as there is an open seat in the back (have to be on the CAS system to get in the cockpit) you'll get where you're going or if they're full, go to the next airline flying that way. I hope when I get a Captain's position over here that Ill be allowed the final word on that.....all though I think the beurocrats are the ones with the last word these days.

P.S. If you're in the Caribbean and can show me an airport pass, you're on my plane where ever you want to go.:)

HI,

Not sure if I should spread the word but here we go.

I work for Air Nostrum, we do most of Iberia's regional flights.

Every single spanish airline take pilot as "extra crew" some even take flight attendant (air nostrum,air madrid,spanair,..not sure about the others) even low cost vueling do so. It is in the SOP's.

The requirement are valid flying licence and company employee ID/card.No uniform needed.
It is at captain discretion of course.
The extra crew will travel without any ticket whatsoever,he will sit in any available seat,if the flight is full,he will sit anywhere.
More than once I travelled in an ATR front cargo compartment. In a CRJ we were once 4(including pilots) in the cockpit....I have seen photos of A320 cockpit with at leat 6/7 people...

Unfortunately the procedure varies according to airport.
All of airport staffs in Spain know about "extra crew" and they will pass on the word (it is exceptional they don't) to the coordinator to ask acceptance of an extra crew.

For example madrid with Iberia there is a dedicated extra crew check in counter,they will give you a fake boarding pass to go thru security. Same in french airport where Air Nostrum fly to.
South america, just wait for the crew to come to the airport and ask the captain.
Italy they have no clue so I had to use a zed/staff ticket to have a boarding pass,then once at the door I asked them to ask the captain,I was accepted as extra crew,they cancelled my ticket/boarding pass.
Sometimes it takes quite a lot of asking around,but most of spaniches airline's staff are aware of it.

Of course etiquette is a must,last to board, say hello to all crews onboard. Last to come out of the plane say goodbye and a very big thank you to all the crew. Don't accept any drink/food/newspaper unless it is obvious you can have it.

Unfortunatelly we, in Spain, are the only one applying that system,that is why I was a bit reluctant to spread the word. Please try to have your respective airlines implementing that system.

How does it go in other country/airlines,please try to be specific.

Thanks.

European airlines have never liked Jumpseaters.
In the past i always just the guide line that if they made it to the aircraft on there own they could come (aircrew ID offcourse)
These days there are so many new company rules that i risk my job taking anybody who doesnt have a company ticket.
Its all BS ,im my eyes i should never leave a colluague behind who is heading home!

Neil

A very sad state of affairs indeed. Long gone are the days when you could virtually thumb a lift anywhere around the globe.

xabi just sent you an email but actually i could ask you right here in the forum. as I intend to use iberia or spanair from madrid could you tell me where i would find this extra crew checkin desk to give a try.:ok:
thanks

Jump seats in Europe
 

Hello

Can anyone answer my question about jump seating in Europe. For example, here in the states airlines have CASS which allows pilots that do not work for a certain airline company to fly on other carriers. So here is my question, say if I work for a UK based airline, but live in Russia, where my UK based airline does not fly, can I jump seat on other airlines to fly back to Russia without buying a ticket?

Thank you

This is a regular question. If you use the search function, you should get your answer. In short, no such system can exist as the rules are very stringent, but not always complied with fully.

If u fly for a major airline u can fly with ID90 based on seating availability.But i u fly for a charter or a low fare company forget it.:*

Spain seems to be the only exception in Europe.

"Z" (zed fair) tickets for airline employees are the way to go. You don't have to be in business attire. Rarely get bumped unless it's hight season during the summer.

A warm round of applauses for our colleagues in Spain. Good for them:D

The whole issue is a complete load of !!!!e, treat it with the contempt it deserves, I know I certainly do.

Yesterday 19:55cunningplanmylord
Cunning...dude...relax....get off the insence... jumpseating is usually a stress free event. BTW I forgoy the lingous.

I think ur missing my point, I'm all for jumpseating, allowing friends and family too etc. I just don't pay any respect to the cras stipulations from the DfT.
I will allow a know person in my flight deck EVERY time

No you wouldn't ordinarily be allowed. The permitted lists should be in the relevant part of your companies operations manual. Whatever anyone may think about the rules they are not up for individual interpretation.

Cunningplan. It is not your flightdeck, it is your employers. You are employed (I assume) to carry out the statutory obligligations imposed on your employer and forming a part of their operators licence and your own ?

In the UK, if you permit an unauthorized person "known to you", to be on the flight deck, in flight or during any part of the sanctioned prohibition period, you run the very real risk of losing your job, your licence, your livelyhood and potentially your liberty. That risk is amplified given that it only takes another crewmember or a passenger to report such an action.

There are many of us that regret the changes that were introduced post 9-11, but whatever our own views on the subject, it would be grossly negligent to ignore them ( however much contempt one feels), as much as it would be to choose whichever other rules we might decide to ignore.

Your entiltled to your opinion ( even if it is a load of b'#locks), however you won't change mine

It isn't really an opinion, it is a precis of facts. Obviously you are not a Captain so it doesn't matter much other than you will need to wake up and smell the coffee before you aspire to being one.

Looking at his history, CPML has been earning a living from flying for less than two years - if that. He was researching which flying school to attend in early 2003. Therefore you may weigh his opinion appropriately.

Scroggs

Less than 2 years........ really !

EGKK31, to answer your question, on G reg aircraft, no, unfortunatly.:ugh:

In my new airline, we are allowed to take anyone we know and trust or collegues on the jumpseats (cabin or cockpit)
We are a European Carrier from a Shengen country and fly Boeing aircraft. This is how it should be with any airline.

The British overreact and are paranoid about what is really important about Aviation Security. And being paranoid is NEVER a good thing in our business.

CPML: You have my support, but I DO have to say that you must oblige by your operators rules to avoid after flight consequences I'm afraid.

HOWEVER: Bealzebub: During flight, the Flight-deck is under the Commanders authority and NOT under the companies! If you do not understand that, it is you who is not a captain in word, nor in deed. The captain allows in his/hers cockpit whoever he chooses whenever he is the commanding officer onboard. If these collide with rules and regulations, it will be dealt with after the captain finished his/hers duties and forseeks his/her command of the aircraft.

Yes I think we all know that the Captain has "the authority" as opposed to "the ownership" a point seemingly lost on the subject of my response, and a point which you yourself have repeated !

A Commanders authority is in part to comply with and uphold the relevant rules and regulations other than in a situation where there might be compelling reasons not to. Those compelling reasons do not extend to simply satisfying the Commanders opinions, prejudices or moods on any given day. There might indeed be compelling reasons why an unauthorized person is permitted, however such a "compelling reason" is unlikely to extend to the suggestion that it is simply someone you know to whom you wish to extend an otherwise unlawful invitation. Captains are normally appointed for their demonstrated maturity, judgement and common sense in addition to the more technical requirements. If they fail to display such attributes on the line it is a position they are probably unlikely to hold on to.

Like many other jobs an aircraft commander is a team leader who leads by example and good management, not by pointing at their gold bars and saying "I am master of all I survey and I alone will decide which rules apply to me".

I only have 18 years of commanding large aircraft under my belt, and it seems the more experience I aquire in the role the more I need to learn. However I have certainly witnessed the foolishness of those who simply ignore the rules they are required to comply with, because those rules do not suit their own whims or beliefs. In this example (you say) these rules do not apply in your company or country (yet ?) and therefore it is not particularly relevant to you, other than if you are flying into countries such as the USA or the UK where you are required to comply. I have grave doubts that any reported transgressions of the rules would meet with the appropriate authorities gleeful understanding that your perceived "authority" superceded their own ? Perhaps your own command experience (?) gives rise to an alternative viewpoint ?

Maybe now you have a better insight into my understanding of a commanders authority and as important, obligations ?

jumpseat
 

I have to agree with bealzebub to a large extent. However there are some rules written in the OPS Manuals that have their origins in the low intensity "war" that seems to exist between ground staff and aircrew. In our company there was a huge outcry from ground staff that they were at a disadvantage because captains were giving jumpseats to aircrew who had less seniority than the ground staff who were hoping to ride on the jump. After a huge campaign by the ground staff union the manuals were changed in such a way that the captain could only decide IF he/she was going make jumpseats available but the decision WHO was going to sit on those seats was going to be made by the gate staff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is one rule that I DO NOT adhere to when it comes to the cockpit jumpseat! I will always prefer people that I know personally to sit on that seat. And 99% of the time these personal acquaintences will be either cockpit or cabin crew. If I don't know anybody then I will prefer aircrew over ground staff. The reason is obvious, I think. In the cramped environment of the cockpit I would prefer to have someone who I know will do what I tell them to do when the situation warrants it and who could possibly also be an asset in an emergency situation. Aircrew also know when to keep quiet and when its ok to talk, usually... But if no personal acquaintances or crew are around I will ALWAYS allow ground staff and other airline employees on the jumpseat. If the gate staff complain that I am not following company rules then I just state that I will not be allowing ANYONE on the jumpseat for that flight.