Guys and girls

Have been following this thread for a wee while and have to confess that BMI was always a company I thought I would like to work for. Always in these situations a fine line has to be trodden and nobody wants to lose face. Compromise is always an option but absolutely needs to happen on BOTH sides. Having experienced extreme management myopia in the past I understand fully where a lot of you guys and girls are coming from. I am amazed that BALPA can't sort this AND the M @ donnignton won't meet with BALPA.

I know enough is enough but I don't think that pilots want a gold rush. I am sure that if the M was up front people would appreciate current market contraints and rough it a bit. However the M has been taking the proverbial here by being lax - now in stage of incipient strike . I see it every day in the NHS - very professional people doing v. important jobs seeing their T&Cs eroded bit by bit. Sad thing is, the whole service is now so disjointed that no solidarity or mutual respect exists now between professional groups. The M now can do whatever they please with full confidence that a backlash if any will be quelled quickly or have a miniscule effect. And you know what those who gripe are told by their colleagues - 'If you don't like it, then leave'. NHS continues to run on goodwill - but mark my words - not for much longer!

Any action has a profound effect on both businees and customer (in this case the PAX). Management continue to tell us how proactive and forward thinking they are but continually get it wrong. It seems that once again accountancy prevails and the head numbercruncher forgot to crate a 2010 tab on his excel spreadsheet.

Just a pity they didn't have a management simulator to run this scenario on.

I would love the oppertunity to drive the A320 but in the same breath you have to think of your future and everyone wants to be in a company that is a TEAM. Seems that Nigel thinks there's no I in team but there is a ME. Needs to do a bit of CRM.

Solidarity is everything here. If the team is dissolved even partly no real power can exist. I would be surprised even if young FO's didn't share this it is their future that is at stake as well regardless of what water has went under the bridge in the past. Management should realise that negotiation with its professionals is the ONLY way forward for the company's long term future. If action is not taken soon deep resentment will prevail and this will be damaging to BMI and I don't think anyone on this thread wants that.

Wish you guys & girls the best of luck.

Roman, threat? Not at all, I haven't the energy or inclination. Just an observation based on my own experience.
Does C172 know that TFLY is VERY much a BALPA pilot group?

Good luck chaps!

bmibaby issues
 

Except as a tool to hit the company harder, I've never been in favour of any joint action with bmi and regional.

For Ts and Cs, the three groups are considered as separate, and no comparisons are allowed in negotiation, but for the across the board rise of 2.4% we are suddenly all of one company.

For all but the most senior bmi pilots, there is an incremental rise year on year too, so their rise is greater. Most are still in the final salary pension scheme, and even those who are not, enjoy better pension conditions than bmibaby.

When Tony Davis stood before the EMA bmi pilots and attempted to bribe us over to baby, he put the very tax advantageous sector payments on the table as the alternative to increments. He described it as a 'productivity' bonus, and at no time was any time limit on it mentioned.

The nub of bmibaby pilots' dispute is that some three years on, against the wishes and advice of BALPA, management imposed the 2.4% rise and applied it to the sector pay also, having left that element alone up until then. This would, of course require the revenue's approval, which was not forthcoming. Tax relief was cut. At a stroke bmibaby pilots are out of pocket. TB admitted a ‘tactical error’ but the company refuse to pay for it.

Bmibaby pilots are the only worker group within the bmi empire to actually suffer a pay cut. That is actually earning less in real £s than last year.

A ‘Yes’ vote does not mean, as CR would have you believe, an inevitable strike. It means that management will be forced to square up to the issue and at least talk. Who knows, we might also find out what actually went on between them and the IR over the setting up, and demise of our tax-free sector pay element.

Put simply – I will not accept a pay cut. End

May I ask a question.

Who is Tony Davis (BM)?

The reason I ask is that I have the same name. (Help!!)

TD
 

Don't worry - he was the first MD of bmibaby.

As is common with bmi managers, he wasn't there very long and was last seen in Singapore running another low cost outfit.

baby have had three MDs since 2002.

From the back seats ......
 

Folks,

As I posted early on in this thread I'm a big fan or your crews and planes. I've been following the discussion with interest and have been wondering how (as a pax) I can help in any way. Booking my regular flights between LHR and EDI with another airline just didn't seem right so I hope to be sitting behind happier flight crew in the near future; and I'd like it to be the same ones that have been impressing me over the last couple of years, not new recruits drafted in in a panic by bmi management. That would make me switch.

Again, wishing you all the best of luck for a positive outcome.

TimV, that simply will not happen, unless it is a prolonged stoppage. By prolonged I mean several weeks. To comply with the air operators certificate (AOC) any new recruits, even if they are experienced operators, will have to undergo a minimum syllabus of a sim check in accordance with the bmi standard operating procedures (SOP's) and line training (usually 20 flights) and a final line check (a minimum of 2 sectors, usually 4). This will take time to arrange and given that a high percentage of the 'training section' are also BALPA members they will be low on resources to do so.

The other option is to hire in a third party operator to cover flights but this is a) extremely expensive and b) not many third party operators would be willing to do so, especially if they have union recognition.

It is very difficult to get aircraft airborne with no one in the flight deck! :ok:

My ballot arrived in the post this morning, I've given my support in the appropriate box, and it has already been posted back.

The best way to avoid any stoppage is to give maximum support to your union IN FAVOUR of strike action and get everyone back to the table.

I'm glad to read that! :ok:

Plus the ignition keys for the A320s could always go missing too ;)

BTW I'm learning a lot about the industry with this - thank you.

So many complaints from prima donna flyboys!

What about the management, they have their concerns too?

If the Pilot's continue to agitate this could mean management having to contribute more too their pensions,losing their well earned bonuses, having to put up with only 2.4% salary increases, downsizing company cars,working weekends and maybe even having to adopt a whole new mindset, thinking positively instead of negatively.:ouch:

Time to follow Management's lead and think of others!

"two penn'orth"...

Despite my screen moniker, I don't work for them anymore, but have roots in the company going back to 1965.

Basically, nothing changes. How has the organisation kept its "unique cultural flavour" for over forty years? There is a PhD thesis to be had here.

Twenty-five years ago, they were a LCC before their time:- sharp with cost control, macho with HR issues, commercially innovative and "buccaneering" but with an unhealthy tendency to lean on crews to "keep the show on the road". And so it continues.

All the very best to all who stand up to the "regime", but don't make the mistake of thinking Sir Michael is more concerned with the opera and his non-exec postions and will not play tough.

331

I am well au fait with that one "331". The smoke, mirrors and revenge culture is the key issue with bmi. They have manipulation and spin down to a fine art. I sometimes wonder if Tony Blair went to Donington Hall for a bit of mentoring.

Be a gentleman and delete your last post Midland 331.

and it was 1989 not 1988.

oscarh,

Done.

Apologies if it caused offence.

331

Heard a rumour that the bmi baby ballot has been counted, if true good luck.

Ballot not closed until Wednesday 16th.

bmi baby - 16th August
bmi regional and mainline 24th August

The bmi board thought the price of oil was reason enough for an imposed 2.4% petty pay rise. Oh dear! Now all three components are about to throw their collective toys well out of the cot! My heart bleeds for you Nigel & Tim! Reap what you sow Gentlemen...

The Ops Director at Baby is targeting F/Os with E-mails about the vote
stating that the comapny are taking a personal interst in their career's and that he knows who is the union and therefore has a ballot!

There are also several rumours (unconfirmed to me)that he has personally phoned ceratin F/Os and urged them to vote No.

Sounds like interference by management in union affairs coupled with a veiled attempt at intimidation! Why can't they just let the pilots make-up their own mind without leaning on them. I notice it's the generally younger F/Os that get targeted, I wonder why?