Manchester meeting Friday 7th
 

Meeting is 1230 local, Crowne Plaza. All welcome to attend. Attend if you can.

I may be wrong, but I think that PPRUNE make a charge for a forum. I'm sure most of us would happily contribute, but in practice which individual would pay it and how would he/she get the rest to chip in - any ideas?

We could use the Balpa site forum but this would require us to join Balpa, just got my joining pack so will be looking at it later.


Not met anyone that pleased with the sector pay yet!!

The meeting seems to have come about through the sheer volume of complaint that has reached Bournemouth. In fact, I suspect that a group of pilot managers have got together and told the originator of the letters to sort out the mess that he has created.

I've nothing against a union, but this is a far better response than you would ever get if a union were involved. In my experience, BALPA would have (eventually) met with management behind closed doors and some sort of deal would have been struck which would have completely shafted some minority of the workforce in favour of another minority.

Also, the full benefit unionisation is only achieved if/when you are prepared to strike. Even after this humiliating pay award, which has to be about as bad as you can get, how many of us would actually risk our company's health and destroy the public's confidence in our airline? If very few, then union or no union, how would we ever get a better deal?

Maybe us lot whining into our managers' phones for a few days has created more pain than a strike - and at no cost!

MANBLK,

That response is music to managements ears, well done.

MorningGlory, a couple of days ago you wrote:
Yes, our T's and C's are, on paper, worse than dreadful. BUT:

I get a great roster and always seem to get the time off that I want. On occasion, our rosterer has even phoned me to check before publishing. I always get the leave I've bid for. I don't work too hard, rarely fly 4 sectors and only occasionally get up early. The routes are just about perfect and each night I like to get home, which is just down the road. Crewing are pleasant, friendly and helpful and I rarely get unpleasant changes. They have helped save my day socially/domestically on several occasions.

Every day (nearly) is a joy, flying fun aeroplanes with great people. Management leave me alone to get on with it my way, and if I do screw up I don't feel threatened. If I phone a manager, I get treated with friendship and respect.

Now, about the money. For this great lifestyle, personally I'll put up with being near the bottom of the barrel - except that it doesn't do much for my self-respect. However, the sector pay award is an insult to First Officers, and they represent the future of the airline. Not good for Cabin Crew either, and they are the public face of the airline. Our public have noticed that they are happier and more professional than at Easyjet or Ryanair and this must not be spoilt by a mean pay deal.

MorningGlory, I most certainly do NOT want to work for Easyjet or Ryanair or indeed anywhere else. I'm very happy, thank you. But I don't like what's happening.

Ardacre,

You're missing the point! Management know better than we do that a strike is unlikely amongst such a new workforce, and even if there was one it would take for ever to arrange, given that so far we only have a few union members, let alone union recognition to organise. Absolutely none of this is any secret to management.

So how much better for us all the have been a complete pain-in-the-butt to our entire management for a whole week.

will join anything but balpa, an absolute waste of money. just remember tho' chaps, at times like this, as skippers, we are in a perfect position to "ease the pain" a little.

Hi guys and girls,I have spoken to some FOs who are willing to join a union,however many wouldn't touch Balpa due to bad experiences in the past,also a few CPs I have spoken to are in the same position.Personally I don't mind which union as long as everybody joins the same to try to get recognition.Having said that which options have we got apart from Balpa? The IPF and TGWU have they got any experience in rapresenting a pilot workforce?....just a thought....

MANBLK
 

Whinging this week may have made the management realise the level of disgust in response to the 'dual base' letter and the derisory pay rise. That may be why they are willing to meet with us on Friday.

Don't forget the outcome of that meeting is not decided yet!

In the future the management will be more astute as to how they try to implement changes. It is for that reason we need to get organised.

Representation,negotiation and consultation are what is required for the growth of all of us. Talk of striking is panic-mongering.

Choose the right tool for the job. In our case, being a fairly small outfit, the correct tool in my opinion, is the T&G.


I'll talk to Danny about a dedicated forum.

Jet2 sector pay
 

Reading all the posts , I felt exactly the same way when the letter arrived .
As long as Jet2 can get 200 hour pilots from CTC , they dont give a toss about either captains or , especially fo's .The company has expanded rather rapidly , however , PM will not tolorate unions in any shape or form , and if anyone dares to stand up to this insulting offer , any excuse will then be sought to remove that person(s) .:\

I'm on for the T&G, particularly as they can represent cabin crew too.

I agree about consultation, etc, but at the end of the day it is, unfortunately, only industrial action that can offer any muscle in the face of a totally pigheaded management - if that is what they are, and hopefully they aren't.

In the short term unionisation won't affect anything, but our individual responses to the letters will. The likes of Silverhawk should be applauded for sticking their necks where few dare.

So ME109 and MANBLK both feel there will be repercusions from above for anyone who voices any disageement with issues that directly affect our personal circumstances. I tend to disagree. If that were true then it is because the workforce have allowed that state of affairs to exist.

The management are not the enemy. They are not stupid.It is in their interests for the staff to be retained, however one of their goals is to retain the staff as cheaply as possible.

As long as the staff will rollover, the management will feel comfortable with pushing down the staff costs.

Market forces apply.For anyone who wants a long term future at Jet2 we must all work together.

PM unwittingly solves the pay issue...
 

Any of you guys and girls seen this? http://www.jet2.com/News.aspx?id=65

Nice move..... and guess what, the LBA A/C got delayed in CMF following a "pitch invasion" by a load of french students and the MAN A/C ends up diverting to GNB as result..... No extra sector pay though as the A/C off-loaded there and returned to MAN!!

Also, rumour has it that AB gets told by his mates at Eurocontrol at some meeting not to expect any ATC favours from the French.....

So it looks like we could all benefit from a little extra duty pay from the ensuing delays we can expect..... Who's going to be taking a little more holding fuel now then?? :ok:

LCM

I have to say I agree with PM on this one.I've posted on here in the past with a similar view on French ATC strikes.

It does demonstrate how it feels to be railroaded by a greater force though. I hope this will help the management see things from our perspective.

There is always a place for common sense and the voice of reason.

Quite right Silverhawk, I do agree with you, let's hope that Management are able practice what they preach on Friday......

From the article on the website....
After a token stoppage why can’t you just sort the matter out amicably without bringing thousands of people around the world (who, I would like to add give your country huge economic wealth) in to the argument?
You choose to do the job you do and it's appalling that you are taking advantage of your dominant position by neglecting the responsibility you have to your customers…yes that’s right, holidaymakers pay your wages.


I don't think that there is a single post on this thread which I don't agree with either in full or in part. We all know that it is in nobody's interest to breed a militant attitude towards management. Creating a 'them and us' attitude can only do the company (everyone included) long term damage - but at the same time I don't intend to bend over and get shafted every time! Let's hope that management are able to stop this issue in its tracks by doing the right thing and start treating us in a professional manner and with a little more respect. It's no longer 'Coconut Airways' but a serious player in the LoCo market. Surely if we are to play with the 'Big Boys' then management needs to grow up as well.

LCM

Perhaps one should aspire to become office staff. I gather the ones moving to leeds get quite a sweet package ranging from a cash sum to promotions onto the board of directors??!!?? You are all Managers and supervisors after all.:E

I can assure you, you don't want to be office staff. Some of us are being shafted far worse than flighjt crew or cabin crew - at least you still have a job if you want it, not so for some loyal hard-working BOH staff.

Thanks for that Peregrine

I am not sure all the BOH staff who do not have the option to move 300 miles to Lba are over the moon with comments like that !!! The "sweet package" is so good try and find out how many are taking it ...:sad:

The Gimp

Peregrine, that wasn't helpful at all. If the move from BOH causes you significant loss then I sympathise.

Boh staff know they have the sympathy of the rest of the Jet2 workforce, but sympathy is all we can offer in our current state of division. The only way we can protect our future working conditions and therefore our homelives is by uniting. Together as one.